New Downtown Arena

[BoulderSooner]

My point was to repurpose Paycom Center, once a new NBA arena is built as scottk suggests.

What is your point chssooner? Are you opposed to a new arena. Do you suggest demolition of the Paycom Center.

Just made a suggestion about other uses for he Paycom Center--how it could be used with the new OKC convention center.
Didn't mean for anyone to get all butt-hurt over a suggestion. Let's just cool it until we hear from our Mayor and the Thunder ownership group.

They did repurpose the Memphis Pyramid. Many in Memphis had the same concerns we are having about a new arena.

Anyone in opposition to a new arena?

that wasn't your point you were 100% wrong, were called out and are now shifting ..

[Laramie]

BoulderSooner, you need to go somewhere and sit down. This doesn't have anything to do with anyone being called out.

BTW Doesn't Louisville have two arenas: KFC Yum Arena and Freedom Hall. You want to address that BoulderSooner? Since
you are 'all in the mustard trying to ketchup.'

[chssooner]

My point was to repurpose Paycom Center, once a new NBA arena is built as scottk suggests.

What is your point chssooner? Are you opposed to a new arena. Do you suggest demolition of the Paycom Center.

Just made a suggestion about other uses for he Paycom Center--how it could be used with the new OKC convention center.
Didn't mean for anyone to get all butt-hurt over a suggestion. Let's just cool it until we hear from our Mayor and the Thunder ownership group.

They did repurpose the Memphis Pyramid. Many in Memphis had the same concerns we are having about a new arena.

Anyone in opposition to a new arena?

New arena, tear down and develop the Paycom Center site. That is what I want.

The Pyramid is a cool, or at least visually stunning, building; the Paycom is not. Repurposing it would not be a win, IMO.

[Laramie]

^ ^ ^ ^

Okay, chssonner, thanks for your reply.

Honestly, I don't claim to know what should be done with the Paycom Center once a new arena is built or what it
would cost to make it part of the new Oklahoma City Convention Center complex.

I do feel it could be used for ice hockey on the 'AA or AAA' level, used for rodeo events to large for the new State
Fair Coliseum and other large gatherings.

IMO it wouldn't sit well with the voters to demolish it considering we have $190 million invested in a 21 year old venue. I
realize Paycom Center will be close to 30 years old once a new arena is constructed.

Interesting take on Louisville's Freedom Hall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Hall

https://do502.com/venues/freedom-hall

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[scottk]

I think the majority would agree and be in support of a new arena, as it is the meal ticket required to keep the Thunder as an organization competitive in the NBA, and ownership happy with additional revenue streams. I think it has been established, "You want a seat at the table, you got to find a way to pay for it" within professional sports.

Where these other communities listed in previous post have the advantage over our setup, it would seem the older arenas still standing and in use, and the new arenas were not directly across the street from each other. There isn't much use for a 18k seat arena, with a better 18-20k seat arena across the street.

As someone jokingly mentioned, too bad we can't just move Paycom Center to the State Fair grounds or to Norman to replace LNC.

[caaokc]

Didn’t Pete already mention somewhere that companies were inquiring about developing the Paycom space once the new arena gets built?

[Snowman]

Didn’t Pete already mention somewhere that companies were inquiring about developing the Paycom space once the new arena gets built?

Nothing has happened for years on the ex dealership next door which is still parking lots, or the properties on the west side of the botanical gardens or new central park which are almost bare land, so it seems unlikely anything worth demolishing it is really happening soon.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
You’ll be very surprised in that case. Paycom is toast, trust me.

[BDP]

BOK has gotten Madonna, Ed Sheeran, U2, among many, many others, that have not been to OKC (Paycom). Mostly due to the fact the BOK can fit more trucks in their loading docks. That is a huge problem for the Paycom, and can't really be fixed, in a way that allows for the arena to keep up with the rest of the NBA.

Ok. I donÂ’t think anyone posting here knows why those acts played BOK or whether the dock situation at Paycom had anything to do with those specific tours not booking Paycom, but itÂ’s a very very slim chance it had anything to do with paycom having the Thunder as an anchor tenant. In fact, it could actually be because BOK doesnÂ’t have an anchor tenant and needs those acts to make it viable, so it’s cheaper than any other arena of that size would normally be.

Also, there are major arena tours that have played paycom that havenÂ’t played BOK, too. But that doesnÂ’t matter in context of this conversation. What matters is that The Thunder being an anchor tenant does not prevent concerts booking the OKC arena from a scheduling or logistical standpoint. Certainly not to the extent that OKC needs two 17k+ arenas because the Thunder uses one of them 40 nights a year. That’s a crazy and unjustified idea.

The idea that Ed Sheeran, Madonna, or U2 didn’t play OKC on the specific tours you’re referencing because the Thunder plays at Paycom a couple of months a year makes no sense. I guarantee you that most comparable arenas those tours went to on that cycle played arenas with at least one major league sports team as an anchor tenet. Most of them probably had more than one, with at least 60 contractually committed dates a year.

Loading docks and other logistical limitations of Paycom may have been a reason a tour did not book it and that is just another reason to support a new arena, but it is not a reason to have two arenas of similar size in OKC.

[BDP]

Depeche Mode’s only Oklahoma stop in 43 years of being a band was Tulsa in 2018. I’m sure the BOK had something to do with that. Possible Thunder conflict had they made the playoffs (May 29th), but who knows.

Even if that is how it played out, is getting Depeche Mode one time in 43 years a reason to keep and maintain 2 arenas? And I guarantee you they didn’t avoid any arenas on that tour because those arenas had NBA teams.

The only time I’ve ever seen them was in an arena that had an NBA team as an anchor tenant. And it was during basketball season. And that was when Depeche Mode was touring on their second best selling album ever.

It’s just not an issue 87% of the time.

All I’m pointing out is that OKC does not miss concerts because the Thunder is here, at least not from a scheduling perspective, and it’s definitely not a reason to have and maintain two major arenas across the street from each other. And if your favorite band is playing in Tulsa, for whatever reason, go enjoy a nice evening in Tulsa seeing your favorite band. It’s a nice town and the arena there needs the tours. I guarantee you, there’s little chance you’d be missing a Thunder game in OKC.

There’s actually a better chance, at this point, you’d be missing some other show at a venue in OKC. Just not maybe Depeche Mode, I guess.

[Thunderbolt]

They would not pay to maintain Paycom Center in the offchance it can land a show that has a conflict at the new arena. The city will absolutely cash in on that land and redevelop it once the new arena is up and running across the street.

I'm sure it'll stay up and occassionally function until a development is fully planned and land is paid for, so there may be a few years it's still used.

[PhiAlpha]

Nothing has happened for years on the ex dealership next door which is still parking lots, or the properties on the west side of the botanical gardens or new central park which are almost bare land, so it seems unlikely anything worth demolishing it is really happening soon.

All those properties are owned by private entities with no incentive to sell or develop those lots of the price or deal isn’t what they want it to be. The city would be much more incentivized to sell, especially if the buyer demos Paycom for them.

[Shortsyeararound]

I was just saying DM played the BOK and not Okc. They routinely play the Santa Barbara Bowl and that seats 4500 (Martin Gore has a house there), so I have no idea as to the reasons why tours go where. If you saw their second best selling album then you saw the Devotional tour (Songs of Faith and Devotion) and I saw them play the Coca Cola Starplex in Dallas for that one. Maybe they can tear down the Paycom and make a large Amp to rid the zoo or build a soccer stadium.

[Sonicthunder]

If you keep Paycom there plenty of benefits

If OKC were to host an all star game then they would have two arenas right next to each other that can support all the events that weekend

It cold easily hold minor league hockey, OKC blue, arena football

Portland has 2 arenas at the rose garden I think OKC should use them in a similar way

[Laramie]

If you keep Paycom there plenty of benefits

If OKC were to host an all star game then they would have two arenas right next to each other that can support all the events that weekend

It cold easily hold minor league hockey, OKC blue, arena football

Portland has 2 arenas at the rose garden I think OKC should use them in a similar way

Louisville also has two arenas KFC Yum Arena (22,090) and Freedom Hall (18,749) both capacities for basketball with Freedom Hall also
being used as an alternative venue for concerts and large gatherings.

Portland's MSA is 2,509,489 (−0.13%) - much smaller than Portland, yet our MSA continues to grow.
Oklahoma City MSA is 1,459,380 (+2.36%)
Louisville MSA is 1,284,553 (−0.07%) - larger than Louisville, yet Louisville is declining in growth.

You see the same growth pattern with 'CITY' Population while Portland and Louisville loses population.

Oklahoma City CITY - 694,800 (+2.02%)
Portland CITY - 635,067 (−2.67%)
Louisville CITY - 624,444 (−1.36%)

Oklahoma City shouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center once a new arena is built with an NBA anchor tenant.
We have room in the core with space in Strawberry Fields and some space in Lower Bricktown with development (Boardwalk)
that could be going on with the new arena.

It is obvious that the new state fair coliseum (5,000 maximum capacity) will not be able to be used for Class 6A and 5A basketball
tournaments unless you want to pass those on as a permanent site to Tulsa's 8,781 permanent theater seats to the Mabee Center
or BOK Center. Oklahoma City now has a new $288 million convention center next door to the Paycom Center.

The City could also use Paycom Center to bring back the state's FFA convention that we lost to Tulsa when dates could not be guaranteed. Oklahoma City lost $9 million in business from the state's 365 chapters who bring 10,000 members to its annual convention.

.

[Thunderbolt]

If you keep Paycom there plenty of benefits

If OKC were to host an all star game then they would have two arenas right next to each other that can support all the events that weekend

It cold easily hold minor league hockey, OKC blue, arena football

Portland has 2 arenas at the rose garden I think OKC should use them in a similar way

OKC will never host an All-Star Game. Portland, Memphis and Sacramento (comparable cities) have never hosted ASGs. Milwaukee hasn't hosted since the 70s. Smaller markets that do receive ASGs like New Orleans and SLC are destinations and have strong hotel/tourism backbone and infrastructure. Not happening.

[Laramie]

Don't want to get off subject. But IIRC was Portland one of the cities we modeled our Streetcar development.

We are not making any money off the Streetcar. IMO make it free, then after the new 'center piece' arena is built you may want
to re-evaluate a streetcar when after you build robust ridership,

[SEMIweather]

The current State Fair Coliseum hasn't been used for 6A or 5A titles for a long time. They have been at the LNC for the past couple of years, and were previously at the Mabee Center. IMO, the new Coliseum will still have a great shot to host the 4A/3A/2A/A/B finals as it does currently. Capacity will decrease from 10,944 to ~8,000 but attendance for high school sports is also declining. I watched a pair of great 4A semifinals at the Yukon HS Fieldhouse earlier this year, that arena falls well short of an 8,000 seat capacity but still wasn't quite sold out.

[chssooner]

Louisville also has two arenas KFC Yum Arena (22,090) and Freedom Hall (18,749) both capacities for basketball with Freedom Hall also
being used as an alternative venue for concerts and large gatherings.

Portland's MSA is 2,509,489 (−0.13%) - much smaller than Portland, yet our MSA continues to grow.
Oklahoma City MSA is 1,459,380 (+2.36%)
Louisville MSA is 1,284,553 (−0.07%) - larger than Louisville, yet Louisville is declining in growth.

You see the same growth pattern with 'CITY' Population while Portland and Louisville loses population.

Oklahoma City CITY - 694,800 (+2.02%)
Portland CITY - 635,067 (−2.67%)
Louisville CITY - 624,444 (−1.36%)

Oklahoma City shouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center once a new arena is built with an NBA anchor tenant.
We have room in the core with space in Strawberry Fields and some space in Lower Bricktown with development (Boardwalk)
that could be going on with the new arena.

It is obvious that the new state fair coliseum (5,000 maximum capacity) will not be able to be used for Class 6A and 5A basketball
tournaments unless you want to pass those on as a permanent site to Tulsa's 8,781 permanent theater seats to the Mabee Center
or BOK Center. Oklahoma City now has a new $288 million convention center next door to the Paycom Center.

The City could also use Paycom Center to bring back the state's FFA convention that we lost to Tulsa when dates could not be guaranteed. Oklahoma City lost $9 million in business from the state's 365 chapters who bring 10,000 members to its annual convention.

.

Again, Freedom Hall is NOT in a prime downtown area. It is at the fairgrounds. So quit using it as an example.

Portland's Veteran's Memorial Coliseum is much smaller than the Moda Center. It is maybe a fair comparison, but barely. OKC doesn't need 2 20,000 arenas next to each other. The Paycom Center would be better torn down and developed up. No sense having 2 arenas when tours aren't flooding OKC's doors enough to demand 2 arenas. Hard to induce tour demand.

[Laramie]

Again, Freedom Hall is NOT in a prime downtown area. It is at the fairgrounds. So quit using it as an example.

Portland's Veteran's Memorial Coliseum is much smaller than the Moda Center. It is maybe a fair comparison, but barely. OKC doesn't need 2 20,000 arenas next to each other. The Paycom Center would be better torn down and developed up. No sense having 2 arenas when tours aren't flooding OKC's doors enough to demand 2 arenas. Hard to induce tour demand.

You've got to use it regardless. Our new $144 million est., state-of-the-art State Fair Coliseum (under construction at the fairgrounds) only seats 5,000; inadequate for a PBR tour event, the larger State High Schools tournaments should be held in OKC, not Norman. We can expand use two arenas for more events--it would increase Bricktown's ability to expand restaurants.

Paycom Center has 15,152 for ice hockey, 16,591 permanent seats for concerts and 18,203 for basketball.

Do you think NBA basketball and concerts will be in conflict? Two arenas will provide better scheduling options.

A PBR event uses 15,000 or more seats. Do we need to have PBR in the new arena if we continue to use Paycom Center in conjunction
with the new $288 million OKC convention center complex.

Paycom Center could be used for that PBR event as well as the FFA state conventions we lost to Tulsa. Could be brought back to the new OKC
convention center with Paycom Center freeing up the new arena for NBA Thunder basketball dates. Also let's not forget about Collegiate gymnastics which could have the new Thunder arena or Paycom Center as an option.

The PBR tour could continue in Paycom Center while the new arena is used for the Thunder.

Oklahoma City's Stockyard City is the home of the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world. Dallas-Fort Worth, San Antonio and Houston currently hosts Stock shows, why isn't Oklahoma City with the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world NOT hosting a stock show comparable to those in Texas' three largest MSA?

Again, wouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center, once a new arena is built--there's $190 million invested in Paycom Center.

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[Laramie]

New State Fair Coliseum will be overbooked once its built.

[BoulderSooner]

You've got to use it regardless. Our new $144 million est., state-of-the-art State Fair Coliseum (under construction at the fairgrounds) only seats 5,000; inadequate for a PBR tour event, the larger State High Schools tournaments should be held in OKC, not Norman. We can expand use two arenas for more events--it would increase Bricktown's ability to expand restaurants.

Paycom Center has 15,152 for ice hockey, 16,591 permanent seats for concerts and 18,203 for basketball.

Do you think NBA basketball and concerts will be in conflict? Two arenas will provide better scheduling options.

A PBR event uses 15,000 or more seats. Do we need to have PBR in the new arena if we continue to use Paycom Center in conjunction
with the new $288 million OKC convention center complex.

Paycom Center could be used for that PBR event as well as the FFA state conventions we lost to Tulsa. Could be brought back to the new OKC
convention center with Paycom Center freeing up the new arena for NBA Thunder basketball dates. Also let's not forget about Collegiate gymnastics which could have the new Thunder arena or Paycom Center as an option.

The PBR tour could continue in Paycom Center while the new arena is used for the Thunder.

Oklahoma City's Stockyard City is the home of the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world. Dallas-Fort Worth, San Antonio and Houston currently hosts Stock shows, why isn't Oklahoma City with the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world NOT hosting a stock show comparable to those in Texas' three largest MSA?

Again, wouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center, once a new arena is built--there's $190 million invested in Paycom Center.

.

PBR will want to be in the new areana ... as will concerts ...

and if you know where to look it is pretty clear the paycom is DOA of the new arena

[April in the Plaza]

Looking forward to the day when Paycom is demo’d and the land is put to a higher/better use.

If the city stays on a nice growth trajectory, should be plenty of demand for luxury mid-rises overlooking the SP.

[Laramie]

The more events you can book downtown with two arenas, the more hotel occupancy you will incur. Then you begin looking at expanding or building new hotels--especially 4-Star hotels.

It's not going to take that new arena long to get overbooked. It also insures that Bricktown Entertainment District continues to grow with more
eateries and restaurant type establishments--then this could be a catalyst for expansion of the Bricktown Canal.

You're going to kill Bricktown if it continues to be overcrowded on weekends. An expansion plan for BT should be on the table.

[chssooner]

It isn't worth debating you anymore in this. You obviously aren't listening to reason, and how cities much bigger than OKC close arenas once they open a new one. And the Paycom Center will be obsolete by that time, and there is no need for 2 NBA-sized arenas in the prime downtown area. If one was in the suburbs, sure. But not on 2 major blocks in downtown.

But you are trying too hard to argue the other side.