New Downtown Arena

[scottk]

Assuming the new arena is on the Myriad/Cox Convention/Prairie Surf site given the size and location, the Myriad will have lasted approximately 25 years as next door neighbor to Paycom Center.

Paycom Center from a facility standpoint is in much better shape as a modern arena for concerts and events compared to the shape of the Myriad was in 2002, other than the north side renovations and convention space that was added on with MAPS. Many of the concourses, restrooms, and common areas were still stuck in the 1970's.

It would be nice to see Paycom retrofitted into a nicer performing arts and convention venue, will the existing arena "go away"...someday, but my guess, not for at least another 20-25 years?

[BoulderSooner]

I'm curious how much you think they are worth? I notice you mentioned the Knicks and Lakers, but not the Nets or Clippers.

You know, young man, it wasn't that long ago that the Clips and Celts got traded for each other. ;-)

only 45 years ago ...

[BoulderSooner]

Assuming the new arena is on the Myriad/Cox Convention/Prairie Surf site given the size and location, the Myriad will have lasted approximately 25 years as next door neighbor to Paycom Center.

Paycom Center from a facility standpoint is in much better shape as a modern arena for concerts and events compared to the shape of the Myriad was in 2002, other than the north side renovations and convention space that was added on with MAPS. Many of the concourses, restrooms, and common areas were still stuck in the 1970's.

It would be nice to see Paycom retrofitted into a nicer performing arts and convention venue, will the existing arena "go away"...someday, but my guess, not for at least another 20-25 years?

the knicks would go for closer to 10 billion

[Dob Hooligan]

the knicks would go for closer to 10 billion

I think there is an issue with getting a true number because Knicks owner James Dolan also owns Madison Square Garden and the NHL Rangers. Figure the Nets will, maybe, go for 5 to 6 billion, and the Knicks surely can't be twice as valuable without the arena tie in.

Also, the Commanders are really selling for $6 billion. I'm having trouble accepting any NBA team would sell for more than a top 8 NFL team.

[HangryHippo]

The Knicks for $10 billion? I want what you’re smoking.

[BoulderSooner]

I think there is an issue with getting a true number because Knicks owner James Dolan also owns Madison Square Garden and the NHL Rangers. Figure the Nets will, maybe, go for 5 to 6 billion, and the Knicks surely can't be twice as valuable without the arena tie in.

Also, the Commanders are really selling for $6 billion. I'm having trouble accepting any NBA team would sell for more than a top 8 NFL team.

the nets don't really have any fans ... the Knicks have millions

[BDP]

The Oklahoman
https://www.oklahoman.com › story › news › 2023/04/17
Apr 17, 2023 — “If we do move forward with another arena, it's anticipated Paycom will still be active, and still be utilized for concerts and other types ...

This is fairly recent ?

Personally, I hope not.

I can support a new arena as a large civics project that accommodates all kinds of events and I want to see any new arena's usage increase over Paycom. Creating a situation where the city maintains two large arenas, where one is primarily for one tenant and the other gets everything else seems wasteful. It also would be at the cost of not redeveloping the current Paycom site. Splitting events between two arenas just means the city owns two buildings, doubling the inventory of nights available. They'd have to have some indication that bookings would at least double to justify it, imo, and I don't see that happening.

The Thunder only plays 41 home games. 57 would be the max and only if they played to 7 games in every round of the playoffs and had home court advantage throughout. If everything else goes to another arena, that's 10 months of darkness at a brand new arena that cost several hindered million. I just can't see a need or justification for that.

I doubt we will know what's happening to Paycom when we vote, but if I knew they were planning on keeping Paycom, with the cost of maintaining and updating it as necessary, I think I'd be more reluctant to support it.

[Laramie]

We need a new NBA arena, let's build it to the right specifications where it serves multiple events/sports especially the NBA, concerts and large gatherings.

The current Paycom Center could be used for ice hockey as well as large Rodeo events that exceed the capacity for the new 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum.

Having two large arenas allows our city more flexibility with event scheduling. We have a lot of taxpayers' money ($190 million) invested in Paycom Center.

That's why IMO Oklahoma City needs a new arena that exceeds the current 18,203 capacity. An 18,500 minimum permanent seat NBA basketball arena should be more than adequate for our NBA franchise and other events.

Build a venue with an impressive exterior. Personally don't think the new arena will cost more than $1 billion. Anxious to see the plans proposed for a new arena and how it will be funded.

[caaokc]

I hope they build the new arena specifically for basketball. Indiana Pacers’ arena was designed like that, and I think the new Clippers arena will be as well.

[scottk]

Personally, I hope not.

I can support a new arena as a large civics project that accommodates all kinds of events and I want to see any new arena's usage increase over Paycom. Creating a situation where the city maintains two large arenas, where one is primarily for one tenant and the other gets everything else seems wasteful. It also would be at the cost of not redeveloping the current Paycom site. Splitting events between two arenas just means the city owns two buildings, doubling the inventory of nights available. They'd have to have some indication that bookings would at least double to justify it, imo, and I don't see that happening.

The Thunder only plays 41 home games. 57 would be the max and only if they played to 7 games in every round of the playoffs and had home court advantage throughout. If everything else goes to another arena, that's 10 months of darkness at a brand new arena that cost several hindered million. I just can't see a need or justification for that.

I doubt we will know what's happening to Paycom when we vote, but if I knew they were planning on keeping Paycom, with the cost of maintaining and updating it as necessary, I think I'd be more reluctant to support it.

Right now all indications point to the old Cox Convention Center site, BUT, what if the new arena was built elsewhere in the city? Would Paycom Arena then make sense as a large venue next to the convention center and downtown hotels, Bricktown, CBD, etc as venue that could have multiple uses outside of an NBA team?

You are correct about operating two 18,000k seat arenas next to each other doesn't make much sense from a budget standpoint and because both arenas would be similar in size and general offerings, they would be competing directly against each other for events. Critics would argue that BOK Center in Tulsa has had a considerable number of concerts that didn't come to OKC, and one would guess conflicting dates with the Thunder schedule is why shows didn't stop at Paycom Center? There were huge differences between the Myriad and Ford Center when it was built in what the arena offered in both capacity and amenities.

Larger cities like Dallas (AA Center), LA (Former Staples Center), and New York (MSG) seem to make one venue work well and being able to turn different events quickly.

[PhiAlpha]

Right now all indications point to the old Cox Convention Center site, BUT, what if the new arena was built elsewhere in the city? Would Paycom Arena then make sense as a large venue next to the convention center and downtown hotels, Bricktown, CBD, etc as venue that could have multiple uses outside of an NBA team?

You are correct about operating two 18,000k seat arenas next to each other doesn't make much sense from a budget standpoint and because both arenas would be similar in size and general offerings, they would be competing directly against each other for events. Critics would argue that BOK Center in Tulsa has had a considerable number of concerts that didn't come to OKC, and one would guess conflicting dates with the Thunder schedule is why shows didn't stop at Paycom Center? There were huge differences between the Myriad and Ford Center when it was built in what the arena offered in both capacity and amenities.

Larger cities like Dallas (AA Center), LA (Former Staples Center), and New York (MSG) seem to make one venue work well and being able to turn different events quickly.

The prospect of the arena being built anywhere outside of downtown is so remote that it isn’t even worth discussing.

[BDP]

The current Paycom Center could be used for ice hockey as well as large Rodeo events that exceed the capacity for the new 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum.

The new arena could and should be able to handle those events as well. In fact, most arenas in major markets do that exact thing. If we are not building a new arena that can and will handle a full schedule, then we shouldn't do it.

[BDP]

Critics would argue that BOK Center in Tulsa has had a considerable number of concerts that didn't come to OKC,

That would be an exaggeration. In fact, many many acts have been to both markets. There have been years when one gets more than the other, but I can't count the number of times someone here or offline laments a show being in Tulsa when they very same act had been to OKC within the last 2-5 years of the Tulsa event.

and one would guess conflicting dates with the Thunder schedule is why shows didn't stop at Paycom Center?

Given that the Thunder use the arena less than 18% of available dates in a given year, that wouldn't make a lot of sense. Every arena used by the NBA shares it with concerts, other events, and, often, other teams. If an event is choosing BOK over Paycom, it would rarely be because of the Thunder. There's just too many dates they don't play for that to make sense. I'd much rather have one great arena that is booked all the time, than two arenas: one really nice arena that is used less than 50 times a year and another similarly sized "cheap" arena to maintain and watch go the way the Myriad Arena in terms of upkeep and relevance.

[chssooner]

That would be an exaggeration. In fact, many many acts have been to both markets. There have been years when one gets more than the other, but I can't count the number of times someone here or offline laments a show being in Tulsa when they very same act had been to OKC within the last 2-5 years of the Tulsa event.



Given that the Thunder use the arena less than 18% of available dates in a given year, that wouldn't make a lot of sense. Every arena used by the NBA shares it with concerts, other events, and, often, other teams. If an event is choosing BOK over Paycom, it would rarely be because of the Thunder. There's just too many dates they don't play for that to make sense. I'd much rather have one great arena that is booked all the time, than two arenas: one really nice arena that is used less than 50 times a year and another similarly sized "cheap" arena to maintain and watch go the way the Myriad Arena in terms of upkeep and relevance.

BOK has gotten Madonna, Ed Sheeran, U2, among many, many others, that have not been to OKC (Paycom). Mostly due to the fact the BOK can fit more trucks in their loading docks. That is a huge problem for the Paycom, and can't really be fixed, in a way that allows for the arena to keep up with the rest of the NBA.

[chssooner]

We need a new NBA arena, let's build it to the right specifications where it serves multiple events/sports especially the NBA, concerts and large gatherings.

The current Paycom Center could be used for ice hockey as well as large Rodeo events that exceed the capacity for the new 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum.

Having two large arenas allows our city more flexibility with event scheduling. We have a lot of taxpayers' money ($190 million) invested in Paycom Center.

That's why IMO Oklahoma City needs a new arena that exceeds the current 18,203 capacity. An 18,500 minimum permanent seat NBA basketball arena should be more than adequate for our NBA franchise and other events.

Build a venue with an impressive exterior. Personally don't think the new arena will cost more than $1 billion. Anxious to see the plans proposed for a new arena and how it will be funded.

Name me one city anywhere near OKCs size with 2 full-size arenas. I will wait. The cities like that are NYC, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, Bay Area, Atlanta, and MSP (closest to OKC, in terms of size), and that is about it. I might be missing one or 2, but none are OKC's size. Concerts aren't lining up in droves to come here, so a second arena wouldn't mean 2x the events. It would mean 2x the upkeep and maintenance and utilities costs. There is not a world where I hope OKC has 2 arenas after the new one is built.

[Shortsyeararound]

Depeche Mode’s only Oklahoma stop in 43 years of being a band was Tulsa in 2018. I’m sure the BOK had something to do with that. Possible Thunder conflict had they made the playoffs (May 29th), but who knows.

[Laramie]

Name me one city anywhere near OKCs size with 2 full-size arenas. I will wait. The cities like that are NYC, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, Bay Area, Atlanta, and MSP (closest to OKC, in terms of size), and that is about it. I might be missing one or 2, but none are OKC's size. Concerts aren't lining up in droves to come here, so a second arena wouldn't mean 2x the events. It would mean 2x the upkeep and maintenance and utilities costs. There is not a world where I hope OKC has 2 arenas after the new one is built.

You won't have to hold your breath

Memphis, The Pyramid

42 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,459,380
44 Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA 1,332,305

[Bellaboo]

You won't have to hold your breath

Memphis, The Pyramid

42 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,459,380
44 Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA 1,332,305

New Orleans also if you count the Superdome. Right next door is the Smoothie King for basketball.

[BoulderSooner]

You won't have to hold your breath

Memphis, The Pyramid

42 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,459,380
44 Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA 1,332,305

the pyramid is a bass pro shops and hotel (not a sports arena or any kind of arena) and has been since shortly after fedex forum opened ..

[BoulderSooner]

New Orleans also if you count the Superdome. Right next door is the Smoothie King for basketball.

i don't think football stadiums is what we are talking about

[chssooner]

You won't have to hold your breath

Memphis, The Pyramid

42 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,459,380
44 Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA 1,332,305

What on Earth are you talking about? I am still waiting for a reply answer, since this one is bad. Very bad.

The Pyramid is not an arena, hasn't been in 15 years.

I mean arenas. Not stadiums for NFL or MLB teams, but arenas. Not Bass Pro Shops inside former arenas, because we have a film studio inside one!

[scottk]

Name me one city anywhere near OKCs size with 2 full-size arenas. I will wait. The cities like that are NYC, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, Bay Area, Atlanta, and MSP (closest to OKC, in terms of size), and that is about it. I might be missing one or 2, but none are OKC's size. Concerts aren't lining up in droves to come here, so a second arena wouldn't mean 2x the events. It would mean 2x the upkeep and maintenance and utilities costs. There is not a world where I hope OKC has 2 arenas after the new one is built.

At this point, it seems it does make since to repurpose the Paycom Center. Compaq Center in Houston has been the home of Lakewood Church after an extensive renovation to the arena, I have no clue if LifeChurch anticipates that kind of growth. Kansas City took the old Kemper Arena after shifting everything to the Sprint Center and repurposed it into a multi-use youth basketball facility.

On the other hand....

Detroit moved both the NBA and NHL into Little Caesar's Arena a few years back.
The Red Wings were playing at Joe Louis Arena, which has been demolished.
The Pistons were at the Palace in Auburn Hills, which to my knowledge was in pretty decent shape, built in the late 80's, but served no purpose after the Pistons moved out.
...and of course when the NFL Lions moved from the Pontiac Silverdome to Ford Field, it was a complete disaster for the city of Pontiac in trying to repurpose the old Silverdome, to the point of eventually imploding it.

[chssooner]

At this point, it seems it does make since to repurpose the Paycom Center. Compaq Center in Houston has been the home of Lakewood Church after an extensive renovation to the arena, I have no clue if LifeChurch anticipates that kind of growth. Kansas City took the old Kemper Arena after shifting everything to the Sprint Center and repurposed it into a multi-use youth basketball facility.

On the other hand....

Detroit moved both the NBA and NHL into Little Caesar's Arena a few years back.
The Red Wings were playing at Joe Louis Arena, which has been demolished.
The Pistons were at the Palace in Auburn Hills, which to my knowledge was in pretty decent shape, built in the late 80's, but served no purpose after the Pistons moved out.
...and of course when the NFL Lions moved from the Pontiac Silverdome to Ford Field, it was a complete disaster for the city of Pontiac in trying to repurpose the old Silverdome, to the point of eventually imploding it.

It makes sense to demolish it, and develop that lot. Having a megachurch downtown doesn't scream progress. And I doubt Lakewood would be in an arena if that arena were in downtown Houston, due to cost.

Again, OKC is not big enough to warrant 2 full-size, city-owned arenas. They would have to sell the Paycom Center for repurpose. And buying arenas is not a major business. It would be best for everyone to demo it, and sell the lot to a developer with big goals and deep pockets.

Repurposing an arena in a prime lot downtown screams mediocrity, to me. Kemper is outside downtown. All these comparisons are not equal, because this lot will be the most prime one in all of OKC, aside from MAYBE the Strawberry Fields area. Not in a suburb or outside the downtown area.

[April in the Plaza]

At this point, it seems it does make since to repurpose the Paycom Center. Compaq Center in Houston has been the home of Lakewood Church after an extensive renovation to the arena, I have no clue if LifeChurch anticipates that kind of growth. Kansas City took the old Kemper Arena after shifting everything to the Sprint Center and repurposed it into a multi-use youth basketball facility.

On the other hand....

Detroit moved both the NBA and NHL into Little Caesar's Arena a few years back.
The Red Wings were playing at Joe Louis Arena, which has been demolished.
The Pistons were at the Palace in Auburn Hills, which to my knowledge was in pretty decent shape, built in the late 80's, but served no purpose after the Pistons moved out.
...and of course when the NFL Lions moved from the Pontiac Silverdome to Ford Field, it was a complete disaster for the city of Pontiac in trying to repurpose the old Silverdome, to the point of eventually imploding it.

yeah, maybe eventually it makes sense for someone like Prairie Surf if they can get their sh*t together and stop hiring all of their interns for important shows. but, tbh, i like the idea of demoing it and having mixed-use, mid-rise residential there a lot more.

[Laramie]

My point was to repurpose Paycom Center, once a new NBA arena is built as scottk suggests.

What is your point chssooner? Are you opposed to a new arena. Do you suggest demolition of the Paycom Center.

Just made a suggestion about other uses for he Paycom Center--how it could be used with the new OKC convention center.
Didn't mean for anyone to get all butt-hurt over a suggestion. Let's just cool it until we hear from our Mayor and the Thunder ownership group.

They did repurpose the Memphis Pyramid. Many in Memphis had the same concerns we are having about a new arena.

Anyone in opposition to a new arena?