Public Funding for Sports Arenas

[Just the facts]

Instead of focusing just on the Thunder Arena I thought might better to open up the discussion to the entire idea of public financing for sports arenas.

I watched this video earlier today regarding the Bears potential relocation to suburban Chicagoland. Well worth the time to watch.

https://youtu.be/ksyeJF4-LVo

[SEMIweather]

I'm sure someone will be able to explain this better than I can, but my opinion is that the smaller your metropolitan area is, the more it makes sense to use public funding. So, it would make more sense for OKC to use public funding for a new basketball arena than Los Angeles, Philadelphia, etc. due to the fact that no one is going to move a team out of a large metro area and forfeit that local television revenue. Additionally, the more an arena is used, the more it makes sense to use public funding. So, it would make more sense to use public funding for a baseball park (used for 81 games/year) or a basketball/hockey arena (used for 41 games/year + TBD concerts/year) than it would be for a football stadium (used for 8 games/year with limited concert opportunities).

[Just the facts]

SoFi stadium was discussed at length in the video.
Inglewood California is much smaller than Oklahoma City. Market size is important to the team, but of zero interest to municipality paying for it. They can only tax their citizens, not everyone in LA.

The Rams gave Inglewood a loan of $250,000,000 to cover the cost of infrastructure improvements around SoFi. The City of Inglewood keeps there first $25,000,000 in annual sales taxes generated at SoFi and any surplus is returned to the Rams to pay off the loan.

[BoulderSooner]

SoFi stadium was discussed at length in the video.
Inglewood California is much smaller than Oklahoma City. Market size is important to the team, but of zero interest to municipality paying for it. They can only tax their citizens, not everyone in LA.

The Rams gave Inglewood a loan of $250,000,000 to cover the cost of infrastructure improvements around SoFi. The City of Inglewood keeps there first $25,000,000 in annual sales taxes generated at SoFi and any surplus is returned to the Rams to pay off the loan.

lol this is so far off i don't even know where to start ..

[Just the facts]

lol this is so far off i don't even know where to start ..

Maybe you should watch the video and then take it up with NBC Sports and the Rams - because that is what happened.

[Jersey Boss]

I'm sure someone will be able to explain this better than I can, but my opinion is that the smaller your metropolitan area is, the more it makes sense to use public funding. So, it would make more sense for OKC to use public funding for a new basketball arena than Los Angeles, Philadelphia, etc. due to the fact that no one is going to move a team out of a large metro area and forfeit that local television revenue. Additionally, the more an arena is used, the more it makes sense to use public funding. So, it would make more sense to use public funding for a baseball park (used for 81 games/year) or a basketball/hockey arena (used for 41 games/year + TBD concerts/year) than it would be for a football stadium (used for 8 games/year with limited concert opportunities).

SLC was funded publicly 18%, Portland was 0% publicly funded. Both small market teams and both with only NBA like OKC. What say you?

[PhiAlpha]

SoFi stadium was discussed at length in the video.
Inglewood California is much smaller than Oklahoma City. Market size is important to the team, but of zero interest to municipality paying for it. They can only tax their citizens, not everyone in LA.

The Rams gave Inglewood a loan of $250,000,000 to cover the cost of infrastructure improvements around SoFi. The City of Inglewood keeps there first $25,000,000 in annual sales taxes generated at SoFi and any surplus is returned to the Rams to pay off the loan.

Dude just stop. Are they the Inglewood Rams?

[Jersey Boss]

Dude just stop. Are they the Inglewood Rams?

I'm confused by this post. What does the name of the team have to do with where they play and the cost/benefit of where they actually play?

[Just the facts]

Dude just stop. Are they the Inglewood Rams?

You should watch the documentary I posted. If nothing else just as a football fan.

I'm not a fan of California politics but the Mayor of Inglewood knocked it out of the park on this one.

One thing we know for sure...the Rams are NEVER leaving this stadium...EVER.

[Dob Hooligan]

SLC was funded publicly 18%, Portland was 0% publicly funded. Both small market teams and both with only NBA like OKC. What say you?

Not sure where you are getting 0% public funding in Portland? A quick Wikipedia scan suggests the city donated the land, operation of the city owned parking garages, and participated in a financing package that wound up in bankruptcy.

[Jersey Boss]

Not sure where you are getting 0% public funding in Portland? A quick Wikipedia scan suggests the city donated the land, operation of the city owned parking garages, and participated in a financing package that wound up in bankruptcy.

https://www.phoenix.gov/piosite/Docu...ch=nba%20arena

[OKCretro]

https://www.phoenix.gov/piosite/Docu...ch=nba%20arena

quick google search shows the Moda center opened in 1995 not 2015 (which is what your document shows). The date on the document must be the last renovation made. It also shows paycom opening in 2011. Which everone in OKC knows it opened way before then

[scottk]

Instead of focusing just on the Thunder Arena I thought might better to open up the discussion to the entire idea of public financing for sports arenas.

I watched this video earlier today regarding the Bears potential relocation to suburban Chicagoland. Well worth the time to watch.

https://youtu.be/ksyeJF4-LVo

Great piece of journalism and telling the story. Interesting approach for the Rams and their stadium in California. Their owner had deep pockets, built an entire complex with revenue generating opportunities with the stadium as the center piece.

Jerry Jones comes to mind with how big of a difference Cowboys stadium was compared to the basic design (other than the roof) of the formerTexas Stadium in Irving. However, I believe the city of Arlington gave a good portion of money towards the project in addition to Jones. Since then, the stadium has seen not only Cowboys games, but sold out A-List concerts, major college football events, NBA, etc. With the addition of the Rangers new ballpark still next door, I'm sure the city of Arlington appreciates the amount of revenue in hotels, retail, and food spent on events at these locations.

I understand the public frustration of financing an arena or stadium when you have an billionaire owner. However, if you are the owner, and the city is offering to pay millions of dollars, why wouldn't you take it? In California, and the Los Angles metro, you can use the leverage of the TV market size and political attitudes to go against the normal model of a city paying out millions of dollars. I don't think that approach works in a market like OKC, or Jacksonville, or Memphis.

I assume there is a benefit for the city of OKC being the owner of Paycom Center, however, I can also see advantages to the Thunder ownership group for owning 100 percent of a new space and controlling all revenue aspects and events in the space.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Royals and Chiefs in Kansas City. It's a comparable market to OKC with demographics versus a place like Los Angeles or Chicago. The Royals are looking to move downtown to a new stadium and the Chiefs, while they absolutely love the atmosphere and fan experience at Arrowhead, know that the skeleton of the stadium is aging. Both stadiums when built were unique in that KC did not build the cookie cutter multipurpose stadium of the 1970's, due to this, the Truman Sports Complex in KC outlasted every multipurpose stadium built during the same era. Their citizens voted for stadium improvements at both about a decade or so ago, but as this video about Chicago mentioned, the overall additional revenue streams simply do not exist in stadiums that were built for the purpose of packing fans in, and then going home after the game.

On a similar note both OU and Oklahoma State are making significant improvements in their athletic facilities well beyond the WOW factor of essential needs, these are being financed by private donations correct?

[Just the facts]

You learn something new everyday. For those that think publicly funded stadiums "pay for themselves", it turns out it is actually illegal for public debt spent on a sports venue to be paid off using money generated by the venue.

https://youtu.be/xNRTjSmfAPg

[BoulderSooner]

You learn something new everyday. For those that think publicly funded stadiums "pay for themselves", it turns out it is actually illegal for public debt spent on a sports venue to be paid off using money generated by the venue.

https://youtu.be/xNRTjSmfAPg

do you have an actual link to that legal opinion ?? or are you just making stuff up

[Just the facts]

do you have an actual link to that legal opinion ?? or are you just making stuff up

Watch the video. That is why I posted the link.

[Just the facts]

Now for a humourous take in the subject.

https://youtu.be/xcwJt4bcnXs

[BoulderSooner]

Watch the video. That is why I posted the link.

a random youtube video doesn't prove something is illegal ..

now if i say not saluting the flag is illegal .. that would be factual ... and if someone asked I could produce the law

[Just the facts]

a random youtube video doesn't prove something is illegal ..

now if i say not saluting the flag is illegal .. that would be factual ... and if someone asked I could produce the law

If you don't want to educate yourself, that is your call. Ignorance is bliss.

The video is from CNBC, but what do they know about finance.

[BoulderSooner]

If you don't want to educate yourself, that is your call. Ignorance is bliss.

The video is from CNBC, but what do they know about finance.

i watched the video ... even what they said the law is is not what you said ..

[Dob Hooligan]

You learn something new everyday. For those that think publicly funded stadiums "pay for themselves", it turns out it is actually illegal for public debt spent on a sports venue to be paid off using money generated by the venue.

https://youtu.be/xNRTjSmfAPg

Wow….that amazing.

So, is that illegal in the universe,

Illegal on the internet?

Illegal on earth?

Illegal in the United States?

Illegal in Oklahoma?

Illegal in sovereign nations in Oklahoma?

[Just the facts]

i watched the video ... even what they said the law is is not what you said ..

So tell me what I got wrong.

Municipal bonds are tax free. Under the 90-10 rule it is illegal to repay tax free municipal bonds with revenue generated by the facility, including using rent collect from the team. It is why Cities have to use hotel taxes and other sources.

Here is Robert Reich explaining the same thing.

https://youtu.be/vLkyULxrWiE

[Dob Hooligan]

So tell me what I got wrong.

Municipal bonds are tax free. Under the 90-10 rule it is illegal to repay tax free municipal bonds with revenue generated by the facility, including using rent collect from the team. It is why Cities have to use hotel taxes and other sources.

Here is Robert Reich explaining the same thing.

https://youtu.be/vLkyULxrWiE

Can you list for us the facilities being illegally funded and the court rulings affirming that?

[Plutonic Panda]

I haven’t watched the video JTF posted but I want to point to JTF maybe you know or don’t know but a massive multi billion dollar private development adding high rise apartment towers as well as an APM mover to the connect to the K Line is underway. That APM may be extended south one day to connect to the G line.

[Just the facts]

Can you list for us the facilities being illegally funded and the court rulings affirming that?

To my knowledge no stadiums are being illegally funded. I think state and local governments are well aware of the law and abide by it. However, there are a number of people who claim that stadiums pay for themselves in increased tax revenue and rent charged to the team. That is not only false, but not even possible.

Think about it for a minute. If bonds could be paid back by taxes and rent collected on the stadium then why do cities use hotel taxes?