Owner / Administrator
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
My understanding is Holt will at least provide the broad points at his Chamber-sponsored State of the City address, and customarily that happens in July.Originally Posted by caaokc
And there seems to be movement towards a public vote in December, so all this should be moving soon.
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
A vote in December doesn't seem ideal. That's when people are most aggravated about spending money.
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
I think the vote will pass easily no matter what. But December does allow 2+ months of the season to get underway. OKC could easily be a top 3 team in the west at that point. Casual fans that don't know the team is on the brink of contending again, will see the light.
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Has the city hired a firm to do design and cost estimates?
Owner / Administrator
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
My understanding is there will be an announcement at the State of the City address on 7/20:
***********
Holt: New OKC arena plan coming this summer
By: Kathryn McNutt//The Journal Record//June 21, 2023
OKLAHOMA CITY – Look for news about a new downtown arena sometime this summer, Mayor David Holt said Tuesday.
“This summer we hope and expect to present a proposal to the people of Oklahoma City,” Holt said. “It is definitely the issue of 2023.”
Officials with the city and the Oklahoma City Thunder have been in conversations for a year about what the future looks like, he said. The city’s long-term lease with the NBA franchise ended this month and the parties approved a short-term extension that runs through the 2025-26 season.
“We aren’t in a long-term lease anymore and there is a sense of urgency,” Holt said.
In his 2022 State of the City address last July, Holt said a new arena is critical to keeping the franchise here along with the economic impact it makes.
The Thunder staying in Oklahoma City is not something to be taken for granted, he said, noting there are 18 cities in the U.S. larger than Oklahoma City that do not have an NBA team and several of them have opened or have announced the development of NBA-level arenas.
That’s how Oklahoma City snagged its team. The SuperSonics – the franchise that moved here before the 2008-09 season – left Seattle after failing to get public funding to construct a new arena there.
The downtown arena – now known as the Paycom Center – is 21 years old. It was included in the MAPS program passed in 1993 and opened in 2002 at an original cost of $89 million. At 586,000 square feet, it is the smallest NBA arena.
Ten of the 30 NBA arenas cost more than $475 million to build and 22 exceed 750,000 total square feet. Square footage allows the amenities users expect, Holt said.
“How long would it take to build a new facility if we decide to do so? Last time it took nine years,” he said Tuesday. “It still needs to operate at a high level for a least a few more years.”
The City Council on Tuesday approved final plans and authorized bidding for one phase of improvements expected to cost $5.6 million.
The voter-approved $1 billion MAPS 4 plan includes $111 million for upgrades to the arena, but city officials are holding back $70 million that could be used toward a new facility. It wouldn’t pay for an arena but would be a start, Holt said.
Three teams play in arenas that cost at least $1 billion when they were built – Golden State Warriors, $1.4 billion; Milwaukee Bucks, $1.2 billion; and Brooklyn Nets, $1 billion.
Two others plan to open new arenas funded by their ownership. The LA Clippers are on track to open their $2 billion arena in 2024, and the Philadelphia 76ers’ ownership say it will build a $1.3 billion arena.
Holt wouldn’t discuss how a new Oklahoma City arena might be funded because negotiations are ongoing.
“People should be prepared for news,” he said. “Be ready. It’s coming.”
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Looking forward to the plans--cost of new arena development, timeline and some clue of funding source (bonds, MAPS) with a possible
date for voters to decide.
VIP Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
looking forward too.,
but I can't help but wonder what are the 18 cities larger than OKC that don't have an NBA team? I thought OKC was the 20th largest city, so there can't be 18 cities larger without teams. ...
Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!
Platinum Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
I’m sure the mayor meant “metro areas” or “media markets.” That’s the metric that matters for this discussion. I think OKC is around #40 on that score.
Still, I’m surprised there are 18 metros bigger than us without teams. Perhaps he’s counting several Canadian cities.
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Here are the eighteen (18) metros without NBA larger than Oklahoma City MSA.
12. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA(5) 20. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA
15. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA
17. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA
18. San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA
21 St. Louis, MO-IL MSA(10) 30 Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA
26 Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX MSA
28 Pittsburgh, PA MSA
29 Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV MSA
31 Kansas City, MO-KS MSA(15) 37 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA
32 Columbus, OH MSA
35 Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA
36 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA
38 Jacksonville, FL MSA(18) 41 Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA
39 Providence-Warwick, RI-MA MSA
42 Oklahoma City, OK MSA
Source: Metropolitan statistical areas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrop...atistical_area
.
Platinum Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
I stand corrected. Thank you, Laramie.
It's funny about some metro areas. For example, San Jose/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara. In my mind that's all part of the Bay Area. Same with Riverside etc. and L.A. And I have flown in to Providence and taken the train to Boston and those are barely separated.
Still, the point stands.
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Yeah the point is we're in high rent district, and it's time to pay rent.
VIP Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
also Baltimore could be part of the DC metro and Austin more or less with San Antonio. With this there'd actually be 14 ahead of OKC metro.
It is this reason I think MARKET SIZE is a much better representation. But the mayor's point is still made, and valid.
Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!
Platinum Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Those are not the same markets.
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Really curious as to what kind of design they’re gonna go with. Seems like they really like Fiserv in Milwaukee, which is an awesome building.
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
You'll be waiting a long, long time to find that out. Funding has to be approved by the voters before they will spend money on designs. You're looking at at least 8 months or so, maybe longer. But I also want I see if they go modern or stick with a brick theme.
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Yep.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wash...atistical_area
Platinum Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
your link proves that it is not part of the DC metro
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Yep. What the link does show is that these metros overlap. That is why HR made the initial assumption.
Those areas overlap like Newark-NYC or Oakland-SF.
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
DC and Baltimore are the same Combined Statistical Area (CSA) and used to be the same MSA. They really should be the same MSA again. By the end of this decade DC-Baltimore will likely pass 10 million people and would be considered a mega-city. The area already has more people than Chicagoland.
Driving distance:
Dallas to Ft Worth – 36.7 miles
DC to Baltimore – 38.5 miles
Austin to San Antonio – 79.3 miles
CSA Population
Dallas-Ft Worth CSA – 8,449,932
Washington-Baltimore-Arlington CSA – 9,968,104
Austin and San Antonio are not a CSA together
DC and Baltimore are less than two miles further from each other than Dallas and Ft Worth and the combined cities have more than a million more people than DFW.
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Not all those markets are really a good potential new NBA market.
For purposes of sports markets these five cities already have a team:
12. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA is part of the LA market (2MLB, 2NFL, 2NBA, NHL), which already has two teams but could support a third
20. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA is part of the DC/Baltimore market (2MLB, 2NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
26. Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX MSA, San Antonio (NBA) would assert that Austin is part of their market and likely would be able to block a team
36. San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA is part of the Bay Area market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
39. Providence-Warwick, RI-MA MSA is part of the Boston market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team
I would argue these six cites are saturated with existing sports team:
28. Pittsburgh, PA MSA (MLB, NFL, NHL)
29. Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV MSA (NHL, NFL and soon MLB) **LV may be an outlier due to tourism**
31. Kansas City, MO-KS MSA (MLB, NFL)
30. Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA (MLB, NFL)
35. Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA (NFL, NHL)
41. Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA (NHL)
That leaves seven cities from your list:
15. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA
17. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA
18. San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA
21. St. Louis, MO-IL MSA
32. Columbus, OH MSA
37. Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA
38. Jacksonville, FL MSA
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Of those 7, there are 3 that don't have an NBA quality arena (or NHL quality, for that matter). So they would have to build one to facilitate an NBA team (and would, if they had to). OKC will support an arena, I have no doubt. But they will want to know ownership wants to be here, as well.
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Tampa is saturated also. (MLB, NFL, NHL)
Seattle will get next expansion
San Diego is a proven failed marketplace(Clippers)
St. Louis (saturated) has NHL and MLB and minor league XFL
Participating Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
Expansion seems questionable to get approval, even as the price an expansion team has increased, they still are looking at losing money from that in perpetuity, with that lose exceeding the one time bump in less than a decade from numbers reported. Could that change as media revenue has questions with the future around cable and streaming services maybe, but it also impacts current owners likely sale prices, and pool of potential bidders. Plus every time the next best candidate for a team is gone, the less credible relocation threats are to the current city they want public funds for either a new stadium or renovation of current one.
There also are arguments on diluting the product, and making it harder for their individual team to win at the highest levels.
Platinum Member
Re: New Oklahoma City arena development
the new nba teams are going to seattle and vegas .. .this is known
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