Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[PoliSciGuy]

I'm pretty confident about my sports fandom status regardless what a random dude on the internet says, thanks. And not everyone who votes against any ensuing measure is a bad sports fan either. We can disagree without falsely putting labels on folks.

[Just the facts]

Why is there an assumption that if the taxpayers don't pay for a new arena the team is leaving?

[PhiAlpha]

I'm pretty confident about my sports fandom status regardless what a random dude on the internet says, thanks. And not everyone who votes against any ensuing measure is a bad sports fan either. We can disagree without falsely putting labels on folks.

No we can’t. You’re a bad sports fan.

Maybe we can compromise on fake sports fan or fair weather sports fan.

[PhiAlpha]

Why is there an assumption that if the taxpayers don't pay for a new arena the team is leaving?

Precedent

[chssooner]

Why is there an assumption that if the taxpayers don't pay for a new arena the team is leaving?

How OKC got the team...

[Mountaingoat]

Why is there an assumption that if the taxpayers don't pay for a new arena the team is leaving?

I believe that is the very reason the Thunder are in Oklahoma City. You can also look at the Oakland Athletics, the St. Louis Rams, and many others.

[Urbanized]

The assumption SHOULD be that if there isn't a new arena that the team would be SOLD. Which, of course, means the team ultimately would move.

[Bill Robertson]

The assumption SHOULD be that if there isn't a new arena that the team would be SOLD. Which, of course, means the team ultimately would move.

I wonder how many of the MLB, NBA, NFL teams that have moved in the last 30 years also changed ownership at the same time?

[Urbanized]

A move likely would not be at the time of the sale.

[Just the facts]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the new owners made some ridiculous stadium proposals so he could say he tried to keep the Thunder in OKC, before moving them to the city he really wanted to move them to.

Wonder how many cities are lining up to build a billion dollar arena for a team that would have already bailed two times on their fans.

[Just the facts]

Hmmm. Seems even Las Vegas is saying enough is enough.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...t/70277528007/

But legislators are increasingly asking two questions long posed by economists and concerned taxpayers:

Is a sports stadium better for jobs and the community than literally anything else that might be constructed in its place?

[April in the Plaza]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the new owners made some ridiculous stadium proposals so he could say he tried to keep the Thunder in OKC, before moving them to the city he really wanted to move them to.

Wonder how many cities are lining up to build a billion dollar arena for a team that would have already bailed two times on their fans.

Pretty sure that Climate Pledge is built to current NBA specs. I would think Bezos would take the franchise back to Seattle if it became his option.

[Rover]

Why is there an assumption that if the taxpayers don't pay for a new arena the team is leaving?

Maybe because the team could make more money in a number of other cities. Local loyal ownership sacrifices income to remain here.

[OkieinGeorgia]

...Oakland has more amenities than OKC?

It seems like every week Pete is posting about some new amenity or attraction opening up in the OKC area, be it the Andretti Go Kart facility, the massive Okana resort, the expansion of the zoo, etc. And if amenities are an issue, we can use some of the funds we'd waste on Paycom and further expand offerings along the waterfront or up in the Adventure District.

OKC would survive just fine without the Thunder, and will continue to grow. Heck, investing that money in better infrastructure or infill or housing would be a better ROI than trying to keep the Thunder here. Businesses and people aren't moving here to watch SGA in person (though he's definitely fun to watch).

That last paragraph is where your logic fails you.

1. That billion dollars isn't fungible for a bunch of random infrastructure and development projects. But, it absolutely is for the thunder and there is zero issue in the ROI on that investment.

2. People absolutely are coming to OKC because of the thunder. Many local businesses have expressed how much having the thunder here has helped to recruit and retain talent, especially young folks. Having an NBA team instantly makes people think OKC is a fun place to be and has made it a destination for a lot of people.

The fact is the final proposal for the arena will include thunder money. But, regardless of where it lands, it's a worthy investment that will pay for itself. Plus, the thunder have been a remarkably great steward for both the city and the state. You, and a few others, are just assuming that they are just rich people stealing public money. Couldn't be farther from the truth with this ownership group and organization. They went to hell and back and overpaid pretty ridiculously to get this franchise here for the city and just because it's worked out pretty well doesn't mean it was easy or wasn't a huge risk financially and personally for them all. They deserve far more grace than "build your own arena, you free loaders." Again, might be true about some pro sports team's owners, but not this one.

[Just the facts]

Economists say otherwise. From the article I posted earlier.

“That's the fundamental reason why economists, when they do research on the impact of sports teams, typically find that the effect on local incomes and employment is slightly negative.”

[soonerguru]

Why is there an assumption that if the taxpayers don't pay for a new arena the team is leaving?

Cuz that's how stuff works.

[soonerguru]

I haven't read all the predictable back and forth, but I have a few comments:

1. The Thunder is a major factor in OKC's stunning growth trajectory and now international profile. If you don't get or understand that, I'm not going to argue with you because it will be like peeing into the wind.
2. The building is infrastructure for the city, not the Thunder, although the Thunder would be the most important tenant by far. But, it would be OKC's building, meaning it could and would be used for other events besides NBA basketball games.
3. OKC has gotten an arena on the cheap. We got by with the cheapest facilities in the NBA for what will be three decades by the time the new arena is built. If we do a good job with the next one, we can plan on having it for a very long time and hopefully will do just as well with the investment.
4. Unlike Seattle and other cities, we don't have multiple major league sports begging for facilities. We only have one, and we are not going to be getting an NFL or MLB team anytime soon.
5. Were OKC to lose the Thunder, it would be a massive blow to the city's image and our own self image. It would be an unmitigated disaster that would make losing the National Finals Rodeo seem like a ridiculously quaint memory.

The arena vote will pass easily, by the way.

[PoliSciGuy]

That last paragraph is where your logic fails you.

2. People absolutely are coming to OKC because of the thunder. Many local businesses have expressed how much having the thunder here has helped to recruit and retain talent, especially a young folks. Having an NBA team instantly makes people think OKC is a fun place to be and has made it a destination for a lot of people.

The fact is the final proposal for the arena will include thunder money. But, regardless of where it lands, it's a worthy investment that will pay for itself. Plus, the thunder have been a remarkably great steward for both the city and the state. You, and a few others, are just assuming that they are just rich people stealing public money. Couldn't be farther from the truth with this ownership group and organization. They went to hell and back and overpaid pretty ridiculously to get this franchise here for the city and just because it's worked out pretty well doesn't mean it was easy or wasn't a huge risk financially and personally for them all. They deserve far more grace than "build your own arena, you free loaders." Again, might be true about some pro sports team's owners, but not this one.

That’s a whole big [citation needed] if I ever saw one. Where are these businesses saying this? What numbers do we have on people moving to OKC because we have a mediocre NBA team? There’s a lot of bluff and bluster here but no supporting facts. Care to share those? This reads like you’re a member of the ownership group trying to stump for more money to line their pockets.

[OkieinGeorgia]

That’s a whole big [citation needed] if I ever saw one. Where are these businesses saying this? What numbers do we have on people moving to OKC because we have a mediocre NBA team? There’s a lot of bluff and bluster here but no supporting facts. Care to share those? This reads like you’re a member of the ownership group trying to stump for more money to line their pockets.

Sigh. This conversation is pointless. You've got your mind made up and if you need citations to make you aware of the value of the thunder to OKC and it's growth then we're done here. It's all good. As others have stated, this still pass easily and it'll be good for OKC. Arguments be damned. Lol

[PhiAlpha]

That’s a whole big [citation needed] if I ever saw one. Where are these businesses saying this? What numbers do we have on people moving to OKC because we have a mediocre NBA team? There’s a lot of bluff and bluster here but no supporting facts. Care to share those? This reads like you’re a member of the ownership group trying to stump for more money to line their pockets.

You are just the worst type of people. Completely ignore the economic impact studies done specifically on the Thunder and try to justify your opinion with articles that are more than likely based on large market teams in cities with multiple sports teams and many more established entertainment options and/or natural amenities. Your mind is made up and fortunately most of OKC’s residents have a better feel for the teams value to the city than you do. There are more real than fake sports fans in OKC.

[Plutonic Panda]

That’s a whole big [citation needed] if I ever saw one. Where are these businesses saying this? What numbers do we have on people moving to OKC because we have a mediocre NBA team? There’s a lot of bluff and bluster here but no supporting facts. Care to share those? This reads like you’re a member of the ownership group trying to stump for more money to line their pockets.

We didn’t used to have a mediocre NBA team. We were close to winning the championship. Didn’t see you saying this back then. You just come off as incredibly biased so why don’t you shut up and and stay in your lane.

[Bill Robertson]

A move likely would not be at the time of the sale.

I didn't necessarily mean right at the same time. More the change of ownership causing the move at any later point.

[Just the facts]

I've concluded sports is either a cult or an addiction. I'm old enough to remember when it was just entertainment. It seems now that it is much more than that to a significant number of people. The presence of a sports teams plays a significant role in their very existance and self-identity.

[scottk]

I've concluded sports is either a cult or an addiction. I'm old enough to remember when it was just entertainment. It seems now that it is much more than that to a significant number of people. The presence of a sports teams plays a significant role in their very existance and self-identity.

I think the amount of financial investment and time commitment plays a role in this. When you are paying significant amounts of money for season tickets, seat licenses, booster club donations, licensed apparel, specialized TV packages, etc, you almost have to be a "super fan" for it to be worth your investment.

It's also easier to be a much more active or significant fan compared to 20 years ago. Pick your sports team and there are podcasts, online blogs, YouTube channels, member exclusive content, daily player and coach videos. This has reached from the professional all the way down to high school teams.

The push behind a new arena is to create more creative ways to "help" fans spend more time and money with the team and venue. With that financial impact probably comes a greater sense of loyalty.

[Pete]

I've concluded sports is either a cult or an addiction. I'm old enough to remember when it was just entertainment. It seems now that it is much more than that to a significant number of people. The presence of a sports teams plays a significant role in their very existance and self-identity.

Another insult to people who see the world differently than you.

Ridiculous to claim sports fans have changed. This isn't some sort of fact-based insight, just the grievances of an aging person. As a kid, I remember my dad saying the same sorts of things.

Every single aging generation is convinced the world is going to hell in a handbasket.