Lumberyard

[Teo9969]

All that "needs" to be developed with Strawberry Fields in the next 10-15 years are the park facing properties. The rest is mostly residential, and that will depend on when we have enough demand to support the quality developments there.

The Bob Howard lots are worthy of a Billion dollar development, so it's worth the wait to see what comes together. Given it's proximity to the Convention Center, it's very likely to have prime hotel space, so the change in demand over 10 years is consequential to the development.

Also, I would be willing to bet that WFH is greatly impacting the planning of development in this area (I-40, Western, Sheridan, Shields).

[Just the facts]

It really is just this simple.

Downtown OKC was wiped clean over 50 years ago and in the past 30 years the taxpayers have spent over $1 billion in public dollars to spur redevelopment. Since then large tracts of properties have been bought up by a very small number of firms and it is the belief of some (myself included) that most of these developers aren't developing on purpose. They are simply land speculators waiting for price increases. As proof, look how many developed parcels got developed right after being sold.

As informed citizens we fall into two groups - one group is content to sit and basically do nothing. The other group wants to force action to take place and if that means the current owners lose their shirts then so be it.

If the owners of the Lumberyard were hit today with a significant tax bill that punished them for holding vacant land what do you think they would do tomorrow?

[Plutonic Panda]

As informed citizens we fall into two groups - one group is content to sit and basically do nothing. The other group wants to force action to take place and if that means the current owners lose their shirts then so be it.

I think there’s some middle ground to be had here.

[seventyseven77]

It really is just this simple.

Downtown OKC was wiped clean over 50 years ago and in the past 30 years the taxpayers have spent over $1 billion in public dollars to spur redevelopment. Since then large tracts of properties have been bought up by a very small number of firms and it is the belief of some (myself included) that most of these developers aren't developing on purpose. They are simply land speculators waiting for price increases. As proof, look how many developed parcels got developed right after being sold.

As informed citizens we fall into two groups - one group is content to sit and basically do nothing. The other group wants to force action to take place and if that means the current owners lose their shirts then so be it.

If the owners of the Lumberyard were hit today with a significant tax bill that punished them for holding vacant land what do you think they would do tomorrow?

They would be forced to pay the tax bill the same way they pay property tax bills. The property would go up for sale. If the profit incentive didn't exist to develop it, the property wouldn't sell, because now there is a new large expense to hold the property. The value of the property would drop significantly due to this holding cost. The property tax would also drop.

If developing is as low risk/high reward as you suggest, then there must be many competitive sights adjacent or nearby the lumberyard for this valuable development concepts that are awaiting eager developers.

[Just the facts]

So land cost and the related tax bill would go down. Those happen to be two of the biggest obstacles to development. Plus keep in mind that the developer wouldn't pay any taxes on the structure itself. Wouldn't those 3 things actually help the developer?

[Rover]

I think there’s some middle ground to be had here.

Pragmatic middle ground doesn't get you any attention on these types of boards. Dogmatic, dramatic, attacking posts get the responses, and the "look at me, I'm so smart" posts do the best. SMH The attempt is to demean anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view. Ie "one group is content to sit and basically do nothing. The other group wants to force action to take place". Always a binary choice to some. Brilliant or stupid. Good or evil. Saint or sinner.

[Pete]

Look, there are two hard issues with the Lumberyard and Strawberry Fields:

First, the Lumberyard owners are violating all types of well-established city codes and design ordinances by running a pay parking lot on unpaved land.

Secondly, one of the principals in SF (the same guy as the Lumberyard, Fred Mazaheri) is required by contract to develop the old Goodwill parcel on a specific timeline and has already missed key deadlines. This came to pass because Mazaheri sued the City over land they took from him through eminent domain for Scissortail Park and resulted in him being granted the Goodwill property but with those contractual deadlines to develop.


Forget pie-in-the-sky, never-going-to-happen-in-a-million-years use taxes and other nonsense. We have two very specific issues that fall under clear existing law.

The cold reality is we need to see how the City deals with both of these situations before we even talk about some crazy conceptual ideas that are 1,000 steps beyond what is already on the books. There is a decent chance they are not going to force either of these issues -- at least they haven't so far. Therefore it's beyond absurd to talk about layering on even more onerous regulations.

[Plutonic Panda]

The cold reality is we need to see how the City deals with both of these situations before we even talk about some crazy conceptual ideas that are 1,000 steps beyond the what is already on the books.

Have you even heard of any rumblings about the city even considering taking action? What is the hold up? Why wouldn’t the city do anything?

[Pete]

Have you even heard of any rumblings about the city even considering taking action? What is the hold up? Why wouldn’t the city do anything?

I've asked the City about the Goodwill site and I know Mazaheri has already missed one deadline and because of that will never come close to starting and completing work on schedule either. I do not believe he has been fined even though there are specific fines outlined in his contract.

And I know he has continued to operate the parking lot even though he has been served with multiple violations.


I'm sure the City doesn't want to get into more litigation because Mazaheri is an attorney (he can do his own legal work) while this sort of thing costs the City a bunch of money.

So now we are going to add much more complicated and onerous laws? Never, ever going to happen because we can't even enforce blatant violations to striaght-forward current issues.

[goldenHurricane22]

If/when development does happen here and the remainder of the Producer's Coop, I hope they keep the existing climbing gym in the grand plan. I am biased because I use it, but it feels like such a unique structure that will retain a bit of the area's past history. (Plus, I feel it would be an affront to OKC's art scene to tear down Sinnett's mural on the facade)

[Pete]

^

That building is under separate ownership so it shouldn't be affected.

[Just the facts]

To the contrary, this sounds like the perfect time to add tax violations to his list by making it so expensive parking cars won't pay bill.

[Anonymous.]

Mazaheri's parking lot variance was just presented at the RDC and it passed 6-3. Mazaheri wasn't present, but his attorney was.

Points of discussion from the board were mainly pertaining to setting a precedent in the area and also Mazaheri's timeline of planning to develop property in 3 years.

No one on the board discussed the fact that there is a brand new city parking garage that would appear to be more feasible for 'Paycom employees'.

The only work that will be done is paving the required amount of ADA spaces, everything else remains dirt/gravel. The variance is in place for 3 years.

[Pete]

^

Yeah, and he's already owned that property for 6 years and continued to operate the pay lot illegally long after he had been repeatedly fined.

What do you bet in 3 years' time he comes back and asks for an extension?

And what is to stop everyone with an empty lot from doing the same thing? It's super trashy and reflects badly on the City, especially after billions in public funds have been used to improve these areas.

[chssooner]

And now we can't do anything to hold him accountable. Our city council just is not very good, and they hold the city back quote a bit.

[Pete]

^

It was the Board of Adjustment that voted today, not City Council.

[chssooner]

^

It was the Board of Adjustment that voted today, not City Council.

Ah, oops. My mistake. But they always vote the way of the preceeding board or council. So is it fairly safe to say this will pass with very minimal questions?

No wanting to hold him accountable for missing deadlines. But see how long you go with water if you miss your payment.

[Anonymous.]

I believe Mazaheri also owns this lot south of the CC. With this variance passing today, I would not be surprised to see this lot get turned into pseudo parking as well. Setting a dark precedence in a design district.

[Pete]

^

Yes he does.

Plus several lots fronting the west side of Scissortail. And the empty lot east of Oklahoma Ranch.

[Mississippi Blues]

Mazaheri must have dirt on some high profile people.

[soonerguru]

And now we can't do anything to hold him accountable. Our city council just is not very good, and they hold the city back quote a bit.

Dear God

[chssooner]

Dear God

What? My accidental typo from my phone? Or you disagree?

Because the guy is 2 years late, has done absolutely nothing, and is sitting on some of the most prime real estate in the state. No accountability at all, from anyone.

[seventyseven77]

What? My accidental typo from my phone? Or you disagree?

Because the guy is 2 years late, has done absolutely nothing, and is sitting on some of the most prime real estate in the state. No accountability at all, from anyone.

Prime? There is 1000s acres of undeveloped land around downtown. Nobody is beating down anyones door to develop this...

Is strawberry hills prime land? They had a plan and can't execute.

[chssooner]

Prime? There is 1000s acres of undeveloped land around downtown. Nobody is beating down anyones door to develop this...

Is strawberry hills prime land? They had a plan and can't execute.

Yes, yes it is. Right next to the park makes it very prime land.

[seventyseven77]

Yes, yes it is. Right next to the park makes it very prime land.

OK if it is so prime it will soon be bought and developed! Problem solved!