New Downtown Arena

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm starting to think we should develop the Myriad Gardens site also. Scissortail Park (upper and lower) provides a large amount of acreage and makes that 4 square blocks look more valuable for construction.

[Bill Robertson]

I get the argument about cost of land with the Myriad/Prairie Surf because it seems to be right from my layman's perspective, but the more I think about it, the more I'd like to see the arena go on the old cotton mill site to jump start development there and create a connection with Bricktown, especially if the Dream development gets off the ground. That would also allow the current Paycom and Prairie Surf sites to be redeveloped out of superblocks, potentially with housing that fronts an amazing park and spur development of the Bob Howard parking lot.

The cotton mill is a massive site, so obviously more than the arena would go there, but it's a site that's effective enclosed by the rail line and the interstate, which limits the type of development that could go there. It seems something is needed to jump start that area and if they city is going to pay hundreds of millions to build a new arena, then it seems worthwhile to get that area going with part of that spend.

The obvious counterpoint is that the land cost of the cotton mill could be prohibitively expensive, especially if there is required environmental remediation (did that already occur in an attempt to make sellable?). Perhaps the Thunder ownership could enter into a partnership to help cover costs and create a massive development there that brings in other forms of revenue for the team.

I don't remember ever reading anything about the cotton mill site being remediated. If a buyer has to do it that will be a gigantic cost. Plus getting the EPA involved puts building anything there many years off. I've been there done that when I was a facilities manager for Kerr-McGee. The EPA makes a snail seem fast. Much better idea to build the arena on the Prairie Surf site and let a private entity deal with the cotton mill site in the future.

[BoulderSooner]

I'm starting to think we should develop the Myriad Gardens site also. Scissortail Park (upper and lower) provides a large amount of acreage and makes that 4 square blocks look more valuable for construction.

lol

let me help you out with that ................ NO

[king183]

I'm starting to think we should develop the Myriad Gardens site also. Scissortail Park (upper and lower) provides a large amount of acreage and makes that 4 square blocks look more valuable for construction.

Oh, lord, Dob. Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. The Myriad Gardens is one of the city's most valuable assets. Scissortail Park is nice and serves a great need, but it does not match what the Myriad Gardens provides. MG should be protected from development at all costs. In fact, the MG being so good and valuable is precisely why I'd prefer Prairie Surf to be developed into housing. Housing fronting the gardens would be highly desirable and create even greater interaction between people and the environment in a location ripe for it, bringing greater life to downtown. Right now, Paycom and Prairie Surf are dead zones.

[Bill Robertson]

I agree that Myriad Gardens is an icon that's off limits for anything but what it is now. There are lots of vacant or really "in need of improvement" blocks in the area that could be housing. Maybe high rise housing. The lot that's been talked about a lot on the last few pages for instance. It's within easy walking distance to MG, both Scissortail parks the Civic Center, etc. But messing with MG, NOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Snowman]

I get the argument about cost of land with the Myriad/Prairie Surf because it seems to be right from my layman's perspective, but the more I think about it, the more I'd like to see the arena go on the old cotton mill site to jump start development there and create a connection with Bricktown, especially if the Dream development gets off the ground. That would also allow the current Paycom and Prairie Surf sites to be redeveloped out of superblocks, potentially with housing that fronts an amazing park and spur development of the Bob Howard parking lot.

The cotton mill is a massive site, so obviously more than the arena would go there, but it's a site that's effective enclosed by the rail line and the interstate, which limits the type of development that could go there. It seems something is needed to jump start that area and if they city is going to pay hundreds of millions to build a new arena, then it seems worthwhile to get that area going with part of that spend.

The obvious counterpoint is that the land cost of the cotton mill could be prohibitively expensive, especially if there is required environmental remediation (did that already occur in an attempt to make sellable?). Perhaps the Thunder ownership could enter into a partnership to help cover costs and create a massive development there that brings in other forms of revenue for the team.

Another issue is the current and several other sites can utilize existing downtown parking infrastructure, both large parking garages and street parking, which peak use is work hours and a good percentage is available well before tip off. Outside of Devon and BOK towers, development downtown in the last few decades has generally neither been dense enough to demand similar amount of parking density nor as likely to have the favorable day/night cycle, as many of the newer buildings that have structured parking are forms of housing which generally need the parking at night/gametime. The cotton mill site is so isolated it may need it's own parking structure built, which would be a massive expense, and if did not would be much less convenient than a range of other options.

[Laramie]

Dickies Arena

Broke ground: 2015
Opened November 8, 2019
Construction cost: $540 million

Basketball 13,550

Many of you do not care for the brick facade but with something with mare glass and NBA capacity in excess of 18,000.



.
Like the huge exposed structural steel barrel-vaulted roof crowned with a cupola.

If Oklahoma City invests more than $750 million to $1 billion on an arena on the PSM site. We will have one of the best multipurpose
arenas in the country.

[BoulderSooner]

dickies???

that is not an NBA quality arena in any way and wasn't designed to be

[BDP]

dickies???

that is not an NBA quality arena in any way and wasn't designed to be

It's actually more what the State Fair arena should be going for. The Dickies arena has economically impacted OKC in a negative way more than most people realize. It's a major threat to one of our biggest sources of international visitor revenue, on par with when the NFR left for Vegas. Events lost to Dickies are not coming back, just like the NFR is never coming back, because, well, Vegas.

I will say, though, that I would personally rather attend a basketball game in an arena like that than a lot of the 18k-20k size NBA arenas, in terms of in-game experience. Even in the best of markets, even during the best of seasons, actual average attendance for a weeknight game in the NBA is not going be 18,000. It may be sold out, but there's going to be a lot of empty seats. I know the economics don't work out and you want to be able to host 18k+ fans in the playoffs, but on most nights, 15k max size arena would make for a great basketball environment for almost every NBA franchise. I probably also rather see a concert there as opposed to most NBA spec arenas.

But, ultimately, yes. It is not an NBA quality arena and isn't really a reference point for this discussion.

[April in the Plaza]

dickies???

that is not an NBA quality arena in any way and wasn't designed to be

i think something like dickies might be fine as a lloyd noble replacement. but it just doesn't seem to have much of a blc nba vibe, imo.

[HangryHippo]

It's actually more what the State Fair arena should be going for.

This.

[Urbanized]

A few years ago I saw the Black Keys at Dickies, and it’s a stunner of a building. Great for a live show. Reminded me very much of American Airlines Center from a finish standpoint. That said:

• It’s in the middle of nowhere. Not a downtown arena. Downtown drives costs.
• It is significantly smaller than an NBA arena
• There is no adjacent development (yet)
• While it has suites, there are nowhere near as many of them as would be required in our arena
• And again, Dickies will be ten years old when the new OKC arena is completed. The world is much different today, as far as labor, materials, etc.

The Dickies example only underscores how unlikely it is that our arena will be significantly less than a billion dollars to build.

[gopokes88]

I don't know how many more times I have to say this, construction costs are up 50-60% from the pandemic alone.

This is still 5 years away at least.

There is no chance it stays under a billion, because it will be built for the next 30 years of Thunder basketball.

[Sean Kanaly]

Develop Prarie Surf site! Best location IMO. The lot between MG and Scissortail would be best fit for housing and retail. Producers Coop area would be nice, but a lot more expensive private development would be needed to fill that whole area.

[IMG]Screenshot 2023-04-14 10.58.16 AM.png[/IMG]
[IMG]Screenshot 2023-04-14 10.52.51 AM.png[/IMG]

[BG918]

i think something like dickies might be fine as a lloyd noble replacement. but it just doesn't seem to have much of a blc nba vibe, imo.

Yes for LNC replacement but with 9,000 seats

[sooner88]

From what I've heard there will be a pretty big update in July regarding the new stadium and adjacent development. While there won't be renderings yet, it sounds like the size/scope/location will all be laid out for us. Assuming that this will be at the State of the City event on 7/20, you can bet that Holt will be announcing what the ask will be of the city too.

[caaokc]

From what I've heard there will be a pretty big update in July regarding the new stadium and adjacent development. While there won't be renderings yet, it sounds like the size/scope/location will all be laid out for us. Assuming that this will be at the State of the City event on 7/20, you can bet that Holt will be announcing what the ask will be of the city too.

Good to hear!

[gopokes88]

From what I've heard there will be a pretty big update in July regarding the new stadium and adjacent development. While there won't be renderings yet, it sounds like the size/scope/location will all be laid out for us. Assuming that this will be at the State of the City event on 7/20, you can bet that Holt will be announcing what the ask will be of the city too.

makes sense, he said in Steve's chat 2023 would be a big year. You figure 2 years of planning/funding/arm twisting. Dirt moves mid 2025, hosting Thunder games fall of 2027. Modern arenas seem to take 2 years to build out now.

[baralheia]

I remember when MAPS3 was proposed, there was talk of an intermodal hub being in place on the east side of the prairie surf property, across from the santa fe station. Is there any thought that even a small part could be worked into the development of the super block? I am not sure what that would look like and maybe the old arena site would be a better place for something like that, but wanted to bring it up.

Urbanized, do you recall what I am talking about?

Even if it's shared with other uses, I desperately hope that at least part of the eastern side of the property has a transit use. If memory serves, the full intermodal transit hub plans that were the basis for the Santa Fe station renovations called for a parking garage with a robust bus station on the ground floor. This would allow both EMBARK and Greyhound to directly interface with the existing Amtrak route (and potential expansions), plus the future commuter rail and/or passenger line to Tulsa - in addition to addressing the parking need for travelers taking Amtrak. In the original transit hub study, this was projected to be located where the Dream Hotels development is now going to be... so if the Cox/Prairie Surf block is going to be rebuilt, now would be a perfect time to integrate something like that into the overall site plan, even if it's shared with the arena or underneath a hotel or housing or something.

[Sonicthunder]

https://xflnewshub.com/columns/xfl-e...ille-and-more/

Maybe the stadium has a permanent tenant?

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

Oklahoma City is a thriving sports market, with the NBA’s Oklahoma City Thunder being the city’s primary professional sports team. Introducing an XFL team to Oklahoma City would provide football fans with a new team to support and fill a gap in the city’s sports landscape. The city has a proven track record of supporting professional sports, and an existing venue like the Taft Stadium could be upgraded to accommodate an XFL team.

Don't agree with the Taft Stadium venue, the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium could be ready by 2026 if construction started in 2024. City would need to bring the seating capacity up from 8,000 to 20,000 minimum.

Budgeted $41 million in MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium (Oklahoma City doesn't have a stadium for American Football or Soccer) that holds 20,000. The City would need at least $100 million more ($141 million) to increase the size of the stadium to 20,000 on city owned land or do a land swap for the Producers Coop site.

Chad Richison Stadium (capacity 12,000 - UCO Campus) Edmond could be used as a temporary venue if an expansion or relocated team became available.

MAPS 4 Stadium considering 3 sites: https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?...dering-3-sites
.

[Laramie]

Featured NBA Arena

Footprint Center, Phoenix
Owner: Phoenix City Council
Broke ground: August 1, 1990
Opened June 6, 1992 - $172 million in 2021 dollars
Renovated 2003 ($67 million), 2020 ($240-million)
Total investment: $479 million
17,071 (basketball)

The 550,000 square foot facility has 7 stories with plumbing, mechanical, electrical, roof and structural issues all in need of renovation


Note: Has less total square footage than Paycom Center (581,000-square-foot).

[BoulderSooner]

Note: Has less total square footage than Paycom Center (581,000-square-foot).

it is almost 1 million sqft .. https://www.tutorperini.com/projects...tprint-center/ but that does include practice facility ..

https://www.enr.com/articles/55129-b...er-renovations

it also just went under a 240 mil renovation 80 mil paid by the team ..

this is the project that the thunder owners for sure would rather no one talk about ..

[BoulderSooner]

double post

[Laramie]

Thank you, thank you, thank you BoulderSooner for the correction with a source link, because I knew our mayor had done his research when he mentioned the comparison of Smoothie King Center and Paycom Center.

More encouraging that we will get the new arena built and it will be a state-of-the art billion dollar + facility second-to-none among NBA small market arenas and possibly he best in the NBA..

The new arena discussions with ownership like most good projects are in the initial strategic planning stages. Reminds me of when our city and Ron Norick initially gathered ideas for MAPS.