Homeless Population

[mugofbeer]

This is a pretty confident assertion. Any data or citations to back this up?

Common sense? The only exception to what Pete noted is a portion of the group that just simply has withdrawn from society and want to live the way they do.

As an edit: l don't know aout PKC, but here in Denver there are many dozens of old junked RVs people are living in along streets among warehouses and in park parking lots.

[Canoe]

Relevant to the discussion, Mayor Holt shared a few statistics about OKC's homeless population a few days ago on Twitter. Of course this is only from the "point in time" count which is imperfect (as it is every year) but it is the best we have. Despite the obvious issues and Nextdoor freakouts, we have a lower homelessness rate per capita than most otehr Top 50 cities, between Charlotte and Louisville. And, our total homeless numbers have not risen overall since 2005 despite the population growth, but he did note that the number of unsheltered homeless has risen, which probably contributes most to people's perceptions.

LA just declared a state of emergency because of the homeless issues. This was right after cancelling the city's COVID-19 state of emergency.

[HOT ROD]

OKC is comparatively low for homeless and this is especially true when considering raw numbers. 65K in LA, 61K in NYC, 13K in Seattle (yes, I can definitely vouch for that number) when OKC has 13XX. Similar to Omaha, a much smaller city/metro.

Im not saying homelessness isn't an issue or shouldn't be addressed. But it appears that OKC can be successful at it since our numbers aren't in the stratus of other major cities.

[cinnamonjock]

Any have an idea why our homeless population is comparatively low?

[LocoAko]

Any have an idea why our homeless population is comparatively low?

I'm sure it's a complicated mix of a lot of factors, but some of the most robust correlations that exist with homelessness rates, more than mental illness, overall poverty rates, etc., are housing costs and available vacancies (see: https://www.sightline.org/2022/03/16...sing-problem/; https://endhomelessness.org/blog/new...homelessness/; https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...-rent-housing/). I imagine our relatively low cost of living, even with the recent surge, still help us in this regard.

[jccouger]

Any have an idea why our homeless population is comparatively low?

I always assume extreme weather & cost of living plays a decent factor in to this.

[Canoe]

I always assume extreme weather & cost of living plays a decent factor in to this.

I always assumed it isn't a hospitable place to live unsheltered. Would you rather live year-round near the ocean or near the Oklahoma River?

[Bill Robertson]

I always assumed it isn't a hospitable place to live unsheltered. Would you rather live year-round near the ocean or near the Oklahoma River?

We used to go to Key West for a week every spring. The number of homeless living on and around the beaches is unbelievable. So there is something to being homeless in very nice weather.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good article from FP with renderings:

https://freepressokc.com/new-winter-...-city-council/

[TheTravellers]

Good article from FP with renderings:

https://freepressokc.com/new-winter-...-city-council/

Fantastic news!

[Pete]

I posted those renderings and info months ago.

[LocoAko]

For anyone interested, Councilman Cooper is holding a Ward 2 meetup to discuss the issue on November 1st at the Tower Theatre from 5:30-7:45PM.

[Midtowner]

Any have an idea why our homeless population is comparatively low?

I think there are likely a lot of factors. Extreme weather is certainly one. Our police do routinely tear down homeless camps, even in bad weather and a lot of them end up in our jail. Anecdotally, I have a class mate from law school who came down with what looks to be a pretty acute case of schizophrenia after school. He hangs around the courthouse, looks threatening and is absolutely not. He spent more than a year in jail for indecent exposure (should never have been prosecuted, he is the picture of an insanity defense) and is now in and out of mental health court, which is never going to treat his real issues, it just scratches the surface.

A lot of the population is dispersed, living in vacant properties around the metro, so they're not conspicuous and are hard to count. There are also lots of other more welcoming cities they can go to.

[BoulderSooner]

Any have an idea why our homeless population is comparatively low?

we spend less on homeless services ... that is why

[cinnamonjock]

I've noticed the homeless population in norman has increased in the past couple of years. There had always been a few people milling around downtown, but now there is always a long line for the shelter on grey street and panhandlers on the major intersections near the freeway.

[fortpatches]

we spend less on homeless services ... that is why

Interestingly, Oklahoma spends approximately $1,789.33 per homeless person, while California spends approximately $1,698.38 per homeless person.

The average amount spent per homeless in the US is $3,583.71 and the standard deviation is $2,157.85.

In this graph, above the line is below average, while below the line is above average.





(An aside, Arkansas and Washington are only $0.01 different in funding per homeless person)

[jedicurt]

Interestingly, Oklahoma spends approximately $1,789.33 per homeless person, while California spends approximately $1,698.38 per homeless person.

The average amount spent per homeless in the US is $3,583.71 and the standard deviation is $2,157.85.

In this graph, above the line is below average, while below the line is above average.





(An aside, Arkansas and Washington are only $0.01 different in funding per homeless person)

careful.... using actual stats and information in this type of situation usually leads to a political argument.

now getting really to the issue, it's because we do have more jobs available and still mostly affordable (but becoming less affordable) housing.

[fortpatches]

And I just noticed I posted the "Homeless per Funding Rate" graph instead of the "Per Homeless Funding Rate" graph.

There is a negative trend - so generally, the more you spend the lower homelssness gets. However, there appears to be significant diminishing returns.
(You'll also notice it is a very minor correlation r^2=0.158 on the linear regression)

[fortpatches]

careful.... using actual stats and information in this type of situation usually leads to a political argument.

now getting really to the issue, it's because we do have more jobs available and still mostly affordable (but becoming less affordable) housing.

To this point, there is a much higher correlation between homelessness rate and cost of living (with r^2= 0.51) - which is higher than homelessness rate and poverty rate (with r^2= 0.07)

[BoulderSooner]

Interestingly, Oklahoma spends approximately $1,789.33 per homeless person, while California spends approximately $1,698.38 per homeless person.

The average amount spent per homeless in the US is $3,583.71 and the standard deviation is $2,157.85.

In this graph, above the line is below average, while below the line is above average.





(An aside, Arkansas and Washington are only $0.01 different in funding per homeless person)

california had 7.2 billion in the 21-22 state budget for homelessness ..

that is 42,000 per homeless person state wide ..

[LocoAko]

To this point, there is a much higher correlation between homelessness rate and cost of living (with r^2= 0.51) - which is higher than homelessness rate and poverty rate (with r^2= 0.07)

Yep. Obviously it is a complex issue with a lot of factors (e.g., I think temperate weather likely affects the visibility of homelessness more than actual numbers), but the correlation with cost of living can't be denied. There's a reason poverty rates in Mississippi and West Virginia are near the top and their homelessness rates are near the bottom.

Occam's razor applies here.

[jedicurt]

california had 7.2 billion in the 21-22 state budget for homelessness ..

that is 42,000 per homeless person state wide ..

can you please cite that number... because literally everything i was able to find says that number is much closet to $1.9 billion. my source is the legislative analysts office of California.

UPDATE: nevermind... found your $7.2 billion number from that same source. it is for total housing and homelessness spending. so your 7.2 billion number includes things like $2 billion in rental assistance for people who get displaced by fires and other natural disasters (so not on homeless as we think of the term homeless). $500 million in tax credits for first time home buyers (so again, not homeless people). $200 million in infill infrastructure grant program (so again not homeless people). so yes, that number on homeless is actually 1.9 billion. the 7.2 is the entire housing department budget.

[Pete]

OKC spends millions on completely non-productive cleanup of areas where the homeless congregate -- and this money does not show up under 'homeless'.

I know a cleanup crew comes to I-44 and Penn up to 5x every single week. Homeless generate huge amounts of trash and the crews clean it up, then have to come back the very next day and start all over again.

There is also a ton of money spent on replacing lights they break out, fences they cut, and grafitti. None of this lasts more than a week before it's goes right back to the way it was.

There is also the tremendous cost of fires (two office buildings and one home in this area have burned in the last year due to homeless breaking in and trying to stay warm), policing (they come regularly for all types of issues), and ambulances.


For this one area alone, there has to be millions spent every single year and it's still a mess with all types of crime.

The only answer is to provide low-barrier beds and deliver services there. As it stands now, nobody in this situation is really being helped, it's an incredible mess in a highly visible location, and we are just pouring millions down the drain.

[fortpatches]

OKC Blvd and Western also goes through periods of looking like multiple dumpsters overturned in a tornado and being relatively cleaned. In the past couple days, they have cleaned it up a bit more again.

And the new 7/11 (great gas prices, btw, $2.79/gal) has a police camera / beacon / trailer-with-a-blue-light-and-camera-thingy. It seems to be a significant struggle for them to maintain the area there now.

[Anonymous.]

Does anyone know if that camp still exists along the train tracks behind Chesapeake's campus? I remember seeing photos or maybe a video of it before and it was very established.