OCURA Sunshine Suggestion

[solitude]

I actually do dislike talking politics, particularly when I don't know who it is that I am speaking with (though it really isn't "my thing" even if I do ... kinda pointless unless one just enjoy hearing one's self speak). That criticism includes me, too.

I regret that we disagree about what we've discussed but I have no wish to devote more time to this than I've already done. As I've said before, "internet debate" leads nowhere ... no one is persuaded, nothing is gained, sometimes good things get lost in the quagmire as barbs get casually tossed around as though they don't matter. And, time is taken from other activities which do give satisfaction ... as for me, I'm going to use the next couple of hours finishing some maps for the Wichita Mountains thread in the Lawton forum here, for me and for those might enjoy having them.

Good luck with your web page.

Fair enough, Doug. My family is off here in a few minutes to see National Treasure: Book Of Secrets. Have a nice weekend.

[Steve]

Doug is a good friend, but I assure everybody, he is not my attorney, just a fellow history buff. If any of you have questions about the column, you can email me, call me or pm me via this site. Metro, the only other active member I have met in person, has done so repeatedly over the past year and knows he is free to do so as well.
-Steve

[solitude]

Doug is a good friend, but I assure everybody, he is not my attorney, just a fellow history buff. If any of you have questions about the column, you can email me, call me or pm me via this site. Metro, the only other active member I have met in person, has done so repeatedly over the past year and knows he is free to do so as well.
-Steve

Steve - The questions are clear here. Why not answer them in this forum? If you can reply to a PM, why not answer for us all? Your columns were public - and these questions to you are public. If you can take the time to post and query PM's, can't you post a response to the questions related to your last column?

[Steve]

I don't engage in public debates with annonymous people I don't know. But I would be glad to talk to you by phone or email or pm.

[solitude]

I don't engage in public debates with anonymous people I don't know. But I would be glad to talk to you by phone or email or pm.

But you write for anonymous people everyday - and quote anonymous sources - and discuss other things with anonymous posters on this forum. Why are you singling out this topic as something you're not willing to discuss with anonymous posters? Your attack on anonymity continues. Whistleblower laws keep people anonymous for a reason. Many "concerned citizens" organizations calling for accountability are anonymous for a reason. You are using this whole anonymity thing as a shield, Steve. What difference does it make to you, if you answer these public questions to your public column --- if you know their names or not? That just doesn't make sense.

[Steve]

I have never and will never engage in an online debate. You can remain annonymous by contacting me for a one-on-one conversation.

[Midtowner]

Due respect, Steve, I think he's just asking that you either explain how your "conspiracy" editorial has nothing to do with this particular forum and how it's not a departure from your previous OCURA-critical article.

I think that'd settle the questions most of us are asking here.

Those are questions even the most casual reader of your columns probably would have had.

I don't think anyone's looking for a debate (not at least in my opinion), but we would really love to have a clarification. It's entirely possible that a lot of us completely missed the point of your article.

[Steve]

You did.

[Midtowner]

Then what was the point of your article if not what many here think it is?

[solitude]

Midtowner is right. I don't want to debate. I, like many others, would like you to simply explain the seeming contradictions. Explain the use of anonymous sourcing to prevent retaliation, while making fun and ridiculing anonymity here. I would think you would welcome the opportunity to say, "Hey, here's what I meant....." It would be a lot easier to simply explain that - rather than explain your refusal to explain.

[Steve]

Contact me! I love hearing from my readers whether they like what they're reading or not. It's done all the time. Metro has done it repeatedly, though not on this one.

[solitude]

Contact me! I love hearing from my readers whether they like what they're reading or not. It's done all the time. Metro has done it repeatedly, though curiously, not on this one.

Steve, Steve....you are missing the point. It looks like you don't want to explain to the forum participants at large. Frankly, it appears you fear "going on record," which brings us full circle to the original questions about OCURA. Again, why explain your refusal to explain, and just offer a general explanation regarding the seeming contradictions of your two columns? I'll :cc this as a PM - maybe you can explain there what you fear to explain here. I'm at a loss. This whole thing doesn't pass the "smell test."

[Doug Loudenback]

I said that I was "done" with this ... but, frankly, I never expected Steve to engage in this thread at all, particularly since the "speakers" are anonymous and prefer to remain that way. Now that he has (to my amazement) done so and has invited private communication with him, is it beneath you guys to honor his request for private communication? Does everything have to be on your terms or nothing at all?

Steve has gone way more than I would ever have done, were I in his position. Frankly, I'd have just blown you guys off altogether (vis a vis the personal critique). But that's just me. The only reason I chimed in in the 1st place is that I didn't think several posters were being "fair."

Now, you have his invitation. Maybe your good judgment will be to accept it. Maybe not. Solitude, you speak about what you perceive to be "Steve's fear." Why don't you get over your own and just say, publicly, in this forum, who you are? That would be a good start.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Please feel free to let which ones of us know who you think is "full of sh*t" and why.

Honestly, and sorry for singling you out, but I think these kind of drive by postings are exactly what give some credence to Lackmeyer's criticism of the medium, while at the same time, it's exactly what he did in his column.

If there is anything that gives internet forums a bad reputation, it's the tendency of so many participants to engage in vague and unsubstantiated attacks on others or their postings.

Yeah, kinda like what you just did with that post huh?

Besides...Have you SEEN me post? If I have an actual argument with something, I generally make it with more than a "drive by" post.

As for who is actually full of it...Anybody that posts under a pseudonym instead of their real name is starting off with an intentional misrepresentation, and it's just downhill from there. There's no real recourse for stretched truths or verification of actual influence in the flesh-world. The internet is full of people run amok making claims of grandeur in all areas of life, this board is no different. Although I do admit that there seems to be a much lower number of BS artists...Probably due to the fact that there's a STRONG chance that they'll run into other people from the board in person at some point. That changes the interactive dynamic of a forum in fundamental ways I'm sure.

Doesn't change my point though. I've seen people on this forum claim some pretty outlandish things, claim to know people that they quite clearly don't, claim to have a say or have influence in matters to which their involvement is ancillary at best.

And you single out MY silly postings because they're obvious and easy to pick on. A smart ass is easily picked out and ignored by any powers that be that might be perusing these boards...I'm hardly bringing anything down. People that say they have the ear of the mayor when they don't are much more destructive to the influence of the medium than those of us that like to shoot out one-liners.

But what do I know...I'm just an idiot with a userID that screams "I'M 12!".

[Pete]

Everyone...

Please stay on point here as this thread is about OCURA not Steve or other posters.



And as you may have noticed, I changed my username to my real name. Had been thinking about it for a while decided to make the change to underscore that I stand by everything I post and that I would say any or all of it in person.

However, for those that elect to not state their real name, that does not make their opinions any less valid.

[Pete]

Now, back to the original idea of the post...

We could create a forum on this site just for OCURA minutes, meeting announcements and discussion.

I'm happy to host it as long as it doesn't turn into just bashing.

[BDP]

Yeah, kinda like what you just did with that post huh?

Not really, as I stated exactly what my criticism is. I don't like vague and unsubstantiated attacks. Yours was my specific example.

But seriously, thanks for the clarification. I generally love your contributions to the forum, and the irony of your distrust for a medium you participate in only makes your often irreverent posts that much more amusing.

I don't engage in public debates with annonymous people I don't know.

That's fine and I think everyone should respect that, but you did publicly insult people you do not know and I doubt you will find many that appreciate that, let alone respect it.

Now, back to the original idea of the post...

We could create a forum on this site just for OCURA minutes, meeting announcements and discussion.

I'm happy to host it as long as it doesn't turn into just bashing.

That would be great, but who's this Pete character?

What's funny is that your old screen name told me more about you than your real name.

[Karried]

That would be great, but who's this Pete character?

What's funny is that your old screen name told me more about you than your real name

ha,ha.. For those of you who really don't know who Pete is...

Introducing:

Peter Brzycki - aka MalibuSooner

The owner of this site.

[Pete]

I just ordered the minutes from the last year -- they meet monthly.

Also, at Steve's suggestion I also ordered the minutes from the last year from the OKC Redevelopment Authority.

I'll scan and post when I get them in about a week.

[BoulderSooner]

any news on ocura min .. the mayor is comming to the next un meeting I will try to ask him about ocura and their openness or lack their of.

[Spartan]

Oh, please. The defense of your friend is becoming embarrassing. Spartan's forum has the traffic in its OKC forum of what - a post every other day? You go a few threads deep and the last post was over a month ago! There was also no active discussion about OCURA preceding Lackmeyer's column. (Except a thread on old OCURA decisions in the 60's which led to a dead downtown for two decades.) You've always said "politics" isn't your thing and I guess we should take you at your word, as you then point us to the Oklahoma Conservative Forum? It's clear you have electoral politics and city governance confused.

You also say you don't see how his last column was a 180 on his earlier OCURA column. Could you explain how you see it? And Doug, honestly, how can you (cleverly) bash the anonymous posters of this forum and seemingly defend Steve's use of anonymous sourcing in his column?

As much as I love what you are doing for OKC history and your enthusiasm for NBA basketball, the lawyer Doug is starting to show.

Keep goin I'm sure there are other prominent scumbags that need to see some o' your daylight, too. By the way I too have met and had smoothies with Steve before and echo the comments of Doug. Steve is a journalist who writes for a newspaper that has been experiencing something new lately--freedom. He does not write anything that is not his. He wrote a column with some suggestions after being annoyed at some of OCURA's shenanigans which every public body has. Then it fueled some massive online conspiracy hoopla. So he reconciled his remarks and if certain self-proclaimed fine whistleblowers believe it to be a vague attack on them, then you have the ego of a Saudi Prince.. which you are not because this is not the Houston forum. The entitlement of some people outside of the know is just incredible in some instances.

But I've had my fun for tonight. I even had my website called lonely by someone who posts under the surrogate name of Solitude. How often does that happen? To explain, we have been in sort of a drought for posts lately due to a server switch that I'm having trouble getting around to correctly doing so the forum right now is at an alternate web address that you don't see me advertising (for the record lol)..we have 710 posts right now for the Month of March as of past Midnight March 19th (morning of the 20th) so that means an average of 39.5 posts a day. Significantly down from the overall average of 67.29 posts a day/thousands of hits, so yes I suppose in some ways your attacks of "what, a post every other day" are accurate, but in need of revision. This is a public forum where you are more than welcome to revise Steve, me, Doug, or any person whether they post here or write in the newspaper or what not because that is the essence of a forum--the thoughtful back and forth and sharing of opinions. That is real sunshine. How about we stick to that instead of these needless attacks on journalists who don't worship figments of the Internet. There was a purpose to this thread. I think OCURA Watch could be a great thing because just tonight I had to ask Steve what time the OCURA meeting was for tomorrow morning. I wish the best of luck to anybody who wants to develop a resource that better allows us to keep track of OCURA on our own without incessantly trying to turn us against the commission and its members. Let us, the Sunshiney citizens, formulate our own opinions. Or else that would essentially be like the "non-partisan" voting guides sponsored by the Democratic Party.

[metro]

any news on ocura min .. the mayor is comming to the next un meeting I will try to ask him about ocura and their openness or lack their of.

BoulderSooner, excellent point! I was wondering what happened to our OCURA website status so the public can keep them accountable since obviously the city and OCURA aren't doing a very good job.

Yes, ALL the next UN meeting next month will be at the Skirvin and we'll have the Mayor doing a Q&A from UN Members. You do not have to be a member to attend, however you do have to be a member to ask a question for the Mayor. Boulder, I highly encourage you to bring this up!!! I will post more info on the meeting soon.

[Pete]

I ordered, paid for, scanned, then posted the minutes for the last year a while ago. That thread was stuck to the top of the board but drew little discussion, so it was allowed to drop.

The truth is, you aren't going to learn a lot from the minutes -- people need to go to the meetings and be prepared in advance.


I also noticed that the city of OKC has a website where they post all minutes and related documents for virtually every other city agency -- except OCURA.

That raises the huge question: WHY??

City of Oklahoma City's Meeting Management System

[metro]

Pete, I think this deserves a sticky, I think there is definitely enough interest in keeping OCURA open to warrant keeping this project moving forward. Enough of us who care will be at next month's UN meeting with Mayor Cornett, and this would provide an excellent example of how hidden they try to be. Is the site up?

[Pete]

Never created a site... Just posted the minutes on a thread on this board.

It's still around if you want to resurrect it.