OCURA Sunshine Suggestion

[solitude]

As we all know, there is a lot of frustration on this board with the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority (OCURA). The frustration is not only with decisions made - but the secrecy, the hostility toward unwelcome visitors to meetings, the lack of easily available materials. In short, the lack of sunshine! There's been too many years of this shroud of secrecy.

A quick Google search shows absolutely no attempt by OCURA to bring things into the open. No website. No "landing page" from the city with even the basics. Nothing. This says a lot about OCURA - or maybe more telling - by those who have authority over the authority. Mayor Cornett? City Council members? Isn't it time to ask this agency to come out from the shadows?

Need examples? Look no further than Denver.

Before you go any further with this post, stop and look at the open way in which DURA conducts their business. Not just the design of the website, but the content of the site which includes developments authorized and completed, under construction and upcoming. A full list of members, their roles, etc. The DURA ANNUAL REPORT is available for download as a .pdf file. There are contacts with real names, phone numbers and real email addresses to ask real questions. (Imagine!) Please - take a look at the Denver Urban Renewal Authority website and see the attempt made by this agency to communicate with the public:
Denver Urban Renewal Authority

I have a simple proposal: OCURA, COME OUT FROM THE SHADOWS! COME INTO THE SUNSHINE! Begin with a website. No need for "copying fees" or anything else. Mayor Cornett, Members of the Council - demand it! OCURA works for us, the people of the city, not the other way around. As elected representatives of the people, you have the voice and the authority to demand accountability and openness from OCURA.

Finally, if this simple request can't be filled, then we need to ask questions as to why so many seem so unwilling to demand this accountability of a public agency. If we don't see it, then an unofficial OCURA WATCH website will be launched.....ocurawatch.com was registered today. There are plenty of people here willing to help. This online community is full of people who love Oklahoma City and are waiting - for the sunshine.

[Midtowner]

Thank you.

Can a mod please sticky this thread?

[soonerguru]

Where's Steve to defend OCURA? Isn't that his new role?

[Pete]

For a while, I was sending away for the minutes and posting them on a website I created. This was a couple of years ago and it doesn't seem like they are any closer to getting their information out on the web.


I think we also need to have some questions answered, such as:

1. Who does Joe Van Bullard report to?
2. How are the other members of the committee appointed?
3. What are their terms and how are they evaluated?
4. How does OCURA market it's properties to potential developers?
5. How does it decide which properties to acquire?
6. How do they decide parameters set forth in the RFP's?
7. What process (if any) is in place to formally monitor and report on progress?
8. Does JVB have unilateral power to extend previous hard deadlines?


I think I'll try and do a phone interview with Mr. Bullard in the near future and then post the information. I think we need to start with a basic understanding to assist all in being constructive citizen participants in meetings and other dealings.


And as much as some of us may be frustrated, I believe we all can make a more valuable contribution to the process by being good listeners and not going into any meetings with a negative attitude.

[solitude]

For a while, I was sending away for the minutes and posting them on a website I created. This was a couple of years ago and it doesn't seem like they are any closer to getting their information out on the web.


I think we also need to have some questions answered, such as:

1. Who does Joe Van Bullard report to?
2. How are the other members of the committee appointed?
3. What are their terms and how are they evaluated?
4. How does OCURA market it's properties to potential developers?
5. How does it decide which properties to acquire?
6. How do they decide parameters set forth in the RFP's?
7. What process (if any) is in place to formally monitor and report on progress?
8. Does JVB have unilateral power to extend previous hard deadlines?


I think I'll try and do a phone interview with Mr. Bullard in the near future and then post the information. I think we need to start with a basic understanding to assist all in being constructive citizen participants in meetings and other dealings.


And as much as some of us may be frustrated, I believe we all can make a more valuable contribution to the process by being good listeners and not going into any meetings with a negative attitude.

I agree about the negative attitude, but I don't think that we must wait to get answers. My father was asking these questions in 1966!!! They have had long enough to open the windows and let the fresh air in. Their choice has been to stonewall every attempt to reform their private club. It's a new day.

And as much as some of us may be frustrated, I believe we all can make a more valuable contribution to the process by being good listeners and not going into any meetings with a negative attitude.

This is where a website can help. We can get all the information on the site and educate the uneducated into the ways of this "good old boy" network (that doesn't exist, of course!). One quick thing about that: are all the OCURA members bad people? Crooks? Absolutely not. But 2-3 of the OCURA members are all-powerful and pull the strings (with repercussions for some that don't tow the line) and those other members are window dressing. Potted plants. Needless to say, the good guys don't buck the power structure at the top. Never have and never will until the people are heard.

I liked your list of questions, I have been compiling my own. I think a well-coordinated effort to get answers -- and use the OCURA WATCH website to facilitate that is not a negative thing, but a good vehicle for positive citizen participation. We could wait, but honestly, this has been going on for decades. I have personally been told things like, "Don't mess with it. Leave it alone. Ever heard the word 'blackball?" (I was actually told that once.) Well, at this point, too many great things are on the horizon for Oklahoma City. Will we allow the same old, same old to continue and allow some of these OCURA people to pad their own pockets and make "handshake deals" on the side, when it's NOT in the best interest of the city? We could and frankly, that's what some of those people are expecting. They think they are in the shadows enough and nobody cares. Here's our chance to show them we care.

Things are different. The Daily Oklahoman is no longer the only source for news from City Hall, the new media - this forum - websites like the one I have described -- it's overdue. They've run out the clock long enough. Nothing we could do would be "rushing to judgment" as they've had decades to answer these questions and open up. They have failed. They failed miserably in the 60's and 70's and their offspring may very well ruin the beginning of the 21st century if we allow it. The choice is ours. They've been given their chance.

And what about the Denver Urban Renewal Authority? Who did the pushing to finally get them to open up - if they ever were as secretive? The people. The people on their own, the people demanding change from the elected officials who have authority over the authority, the people saying that this city is ours and not a clique of wealthy individuals who try to do everything they can as quietly and out of the spotlight as they can. We can say those days are over. We can hold every sunshine law and open-meetings laws over their heads and tell them it's time to come out of the shadows. If the city leaders don't have the guts to confront them - the state AG's office has jurisdiction on these laws.

We CAN loosen the grip OCURA has had on the decision-making and back-scratching that has been a part of our city's past and present. Now, will we do it? I honestly think we can. We can make a difference and make the OCURA of old a relic of the past, an organization (with maybe a new name?) that rises in 'renewal' for real urban growth; not in the best interests of just a few, but all the people of Oklahoma City.

[Midtowner]

Yes.

When my father worked for the AG's office back in the early 80's, he headed up an investigation into the 'good 'ol boys,' whose descendants now populate boards such as OCURA.

Despite all of the open records laws, etc., these guys were keeping their records in different buildings all around the city. The buildings kept highly irregular hours, they really held up the AG's office.

Just as the AG's office was really getting the ball rolling, the good 'ol boys got Mike Turpen elected and replaced Cartwright, and it was business as usual again. That's the closest we've ever been to this.

I think the 'new media' certainly offers a hell of an opportunity for citizen activism. I agree with Solitude, these folks have shown that they will desperately guard their fiefdom. I don't believe 'another chance' is something they deserve.

[soonerguru]

Solitude,

Amazing and informative post. Kudos.

[metro]

solitude, go ahead and launch the site with content, they've clearly had their chance for decades as others have said. we've been following them for years on this board. let's post what we can, see who can attend their next meeting, write the city clowncil and see what we can do to shed more light into this situation.

[BDP]

I think this is a great idea, as long as the site stays focused on discovery and on promoting public access to information. If it is conducted from the beginning as a vehicle to take down OCURA or any specific member, then I think it may be less productive. Not that you were that in any way suggesting that, but I just wouldn't want it to become an anti-OCURA outlet.

As a public agency, OCURA has no excuse for being less than completely transparent. It and the projects it oversees should be held to the highest standard of accountability possible. It's role to Oklahoma City's future is too important for it not to engage and involve the populace and even to actively seek out that participation. I think any effort to accomplish that goal is a worthy one and that such a website and watch dog effort would be welcomed by all concerned.

Personally, I can see no justifiable opposition by OCURA to any effort to make information surrounding their proceedings more readily available to the public, if it's done in a non-partisan manner. In fact, I see that as doing their job for them.

[soonerguru]

It's funny and a bit of ironic, but we probably owe Steve a debt of gratitude for getting us fired up enough about this to do something.

If Steve was told to do the column to flip-flop from his previous, somewhat critical OCURA piece, the column has had the opposite effect.

Thanks, Steve. Your OCURA apologia has brought this site together to expose the cronyist, good ole boy, business as usual approach you claim OCURA doesn't exhibit.

Thanks!

[Doug Loudenback]

Unless someone was in Steve's mind when he wrote his articles, I'm thinking that you're doing him a disservice by some of the above comments ... he's been, and is, a good friend to this forum and to Oklahoma City. I surely see nothing wrong with this project and maybe some good will come from it ... but it might be just as well to leave his name out of it. My 2 cents.

[soonerguru]

Doug,

I appreciate your comments, but in all due respect, you are missing the mark.

If Steve were a "friend of this forum," why would he suggest that the commentary about OCURA was tin-foil conspiracy talk? Please answer this.

Also, why would he deny the insularity of OCURA and in print appear to go out of his way to cover their broadsides, just days after appearing to critique them?

Do you consider this integrity? Frankly, I was just as shocked as anyone else because I've always respected Steve Lackmeyer, but his commentary was extremely condescending toward this forum, not to mention wrong.

He suggests that OCURA never does any backroom deals and everything is on the up and up and everything's all hunky dory with them, but these strange Internet trolls seem to think something is wrong with them....what wackos.

In all due respect, Doug, I would love to hear you continue to apologize for this garbage.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Well, I consider myself a "friend of this forum" and I think a good portion of the people on here are so full of sh*t their eyes are brown.

Doesn't matter, I still like you all and would buy any one of you a drink should the opportunity arise.

Except Misty. I couldn't afford to feed her drinking hobby.

[ouguy23]

Well, I consider myself a "friend of this forum" and I think a good portion of the people on here are so full of sh*t their eyes are brown.

Doesn't matter, I still like you all and would buy any one of you a drink should the opportunity arise.

Except Misty. I couldn't afford to feed her drinking hobby.

I concur! Thanks for being a voice of reason, lol

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug,

I appreciate your comments, but in all due respect, you are missing the mark.

If Steve were a "friend of this forum," why would he suggest that the commentary about OCURA was tin-foil conspiracy talk? Please answer this.

Also, why would he deny the insularity of OCURA and in print appear to go out of his way to cover their broadsides, just days after appearing to critique them?

Do you consider this integrity? Frankly, I was just as shocked as anyone else because I've always respected Steve Lackmeyer, but his commentary was extremely condescending toward this forum, not to mention wrong.

He suggests that OCURA never does any backroom deals and everything is on the up and up and everything's all hunky dory with them, but these strange Internet trolls seem to think something is wrong with them....what wackos.

In all due respect, Doug, I would love to hear you continue to apologize for this garbage.

Soonerguru, I don't know you nor do I know who you are. If you've got issues with Steve about one or more columns he's written, it would be easy enough for you to send him a private message and ask him the questions that you're asking me. Were you to have such communication and still have the same conclusions you've reached, then perhaps I'd be inclined to take what you have to say more seriously. At the least, you'd be entitled to some respect for doing so. But that's your call to make, not mine.

Now, turning to another topic just raised, Gawd, about those drinks you mentioned ...

[solitude]

Soonerguru, I don't know you nor do I know who you are. If you've got issues with Steve about one or more columns he's written, it would be easy enough for you to send him a private message and ask him the questions that you're asking me. Were you to have such communication and still have the same conclusions you've reached, then perhaps I'd be inclined to take what you have to say more seriously. At the least, you'd be entitled to some respect for doing so. But that's your call to make, not mine.

Now, turning to another topic just raised, Gawd, about those drinks you mentioned ...

Doug, Are you forgetting the words Steve used in his "clarification" column? Do you really expect SoonerGuru to send Steve a PM about his columns? The column written in the state's largest newspaper for hundreds of thousands to read? Doug, no private messages went out to anyone here, as far as I know, looking for information that may back up our comments and experiences with OCURA. Nobody received that courtesy you're suggesting of SoonerGuru. Lackmeyer proceeded with that shot across the bow of this forum and it was obviously a 180 from that previous column. He was intellectually dishonest by basically trying to disown his own comments and blame it on the Internet "conspiracy theorists." That's shameful. How can you call him a "friend of this forum," after what he wrote? If that's how friends treat friends, I would be scared to death to cross paths with an enemy. But, with that said, you'll notice, I have not mentioned Steve in my posts in this thread. OCURA WATCH will not be about Steve. (However, many here may be right in that he may have lit a fire.)

I know you and Steve have a shared passion for history of our city and you are friends; but Doug, read that column again and then come back here and try to claim he is a "friend" of this forum. He may be your friend - and that's great - but that's not the issue. Frankly, it bothers me that because of your friendship with Steve that you choose to defend him here and question us for holding Steve Lackmeyer responsible for his "clarification." This is an open forum - Steve hasn't written a single word here concerning this issue. He's a big boy and perfectly capable of defending himself if he so chose to do so. He hasn't. To me, that's telling.

In a final thought about Lackmeyer: there is much truth to the thinking that we probably should thank Steve. That last column simply underscored the fear many have of OCURA and clearly showed that cronyism is no "conspiracy theory." Remember, by ripping anonymity on this forum - he agreed to keep developers anonymous for his story - because they feared retribution! Enough said. And enough about Steve.

You're much loved around here, Doug. I know you want the best for Oklahoma City. I hope you'll join many of us in calling for an open, honest, accountable and reformed Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority.

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug, Are you forgetting the words Steve used in his "clarification" column? Do you really expect SoonerGuru to send Steve a PM about his columns?

No, I don't expect that he will. While I think that it would be the right thing to do, I have no such expectation.

The column written in the state's largest newspaper for hundreds of thousands to read? Doug, no private messages went out to anyone here, as far as I know, looking for information that may back up our comments and experiences with OCURA. Nobody received that courtesy you're suggesting of SoonerGuru.

Are you suggesting that he had an obligation, or even that it would have been sensible, to make inquiries of people in this forum as news sources who don't even identify themselves as to name, age, occupation, etc., but many of whom are prone to posture themselves as having some sort of superior knowledge, as groundwork for his article(s)? If so, what about the other forums ... ditto what I queried above in those forums, as well? What about individual bloggers ... how many of them are there? Regardless, how is it that you presume to know that he didn't make individual inquiries? Did you ask him if he did?

Lackmeyer proceeded with that shot across the bow of this forum ...

I don't recall that any particular forum(s) was/were identified or that any particular blog/bloggers were. Perhaps you'll give me a quote on that ...

... and it was obviously a 180 from that previous column. He was intellectually dishonest by basically trying to disown his own comments and blame it on the Internet "conspiracy theorists." That's shameful.

That is your conclusion but it is not mine.

How can you call him a "friend of this forum," after what he wrote?

As to "after what he wrote," see 2 ¶s above. As to "friend of this forum," he is one of the few ... maybe the only ... person in the public eye who identifies himself here and participates in occasional if not frequent discussion. I don't recall that he's ever used abrasive language in referring to any poster here, not once. Certainly he has said nothing that would bring discredit upon or lessen the credibility of this forum.

If that's how friends treat friends, I would be scared to death to cross paths with an enemy.

Right.

But, with that said, you'll notice, I have not mentioned Steve in my posts in this thread.

That was once so ... I never said that you did ... but that was "then" and you just changed that.

OCURA WATCH will not be about Steve. (However, many here may be right in that he may have lit a fire.)

Nothing wrong with that at all ... as I said, "I surely see nothing wrong with this project and maybe some good will come from it."

I know you and Steve have a shared passion for history of our city and you are friends; but Doug, read that column again and then come back here and try to claim he is a "friend" of this forum. He may be your friend - and that's great - but that's not the issue. Frankly, it bothers me that because of your friendship with Steve that you choose to defend him here and question us for holding Steve Lackmeyer responsible for his "clarification." This is an open forum - Steve hasn't written a single word here concerning this issue. He's a big boy and perfectly capable of defending himself if he so chose to do so. He hasn't. To me, that's telling.

Yeah, he is a friend and we do share a passion for Oklahoma City history. He is also one of the very few people in this forum that I have actually met ... and, given the anonymity that most posters seem to want or need, one of the few that I actually could meet unless someone approached me who knew who I was. As far as content is concerned, given that you are obviously serious about your project, you might actually have gotten a better perspective, maybe a little more knowledge, about the content of his article(s) if you had chosen to speak with him privately. That's easy enough to do. As far as him having the need to "defend" himself here, I wouldn't suppose that he sees a need for that. Although he participates here occasionally, I seriously doubt that he feels a personal investment here. While those of us who participate with more regularity probably feel differently in that regard, when you get right down to it, this isn't a very big pond in the larger scheme of things.

In a final thought about Lackmeyer: there is much truth to the thinking that we probably should thank Steve. That last column simply underscored the fear many have of OCURA and clearly showed that cronyism is no "conspiracy theory." Remember, by ripping anonymity on this forum - he agreed to keep developers anonymous for his story - because they feared retribution! Enough said. And enough about Steve.

I've already asked you for the quote about the "this" forum. It would have been easy enough for you to undertake your project without getting into the "Steve" stuff ... which I know that you did not initially do. But, now, you've made that choice.

You're much loved around here, Doug.

Yeah, I'm feelin' it! Not a problem ... I'm a man. I'm 64!

I know you want the best for Oklahoma City. I hope you'll join many of us in calling for an open, honest, accountable and reformed Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority.

As I said, I don't have a problem with that. I'm not a believer in ends justifying means, however. Making friends is a bunch better means than making enemies in accomplishing one's goals.

[soonerguru]

Doug,

That is a clever bit of sophistry on your part. Tell me: what other Internet forum or blog could Steve have possibly been speaking about? There isn't one! Nice try, albeit disingenuous. Are you employed in the legal profession?

[metro]

Doug, Are you forgetting the words Steve used in his "clarification" column? Do you really expect SoonerGuru to send Steve a PM about his columns? The column written in the state's largest newspaper for hundreds of thousands to read? Doug, no private messages went out to anyone here, as far as I know, looking for information that may back up our comments and experiences with OCURA. Nobody received that courtesy you're suggesting of SoonerGuru. Lackmeyer proceeded with that shot across the bow of this forum and it was obviously a 180 from that previous column. He was intellectually dishonest by basically trying to disown his own comments and blame it on the Internet "conspiracy theorists." That's shameful. How can you call him a "friend of this forum," after what he wrote? If that's how friends treat friends, I would be scared to death to cross paths with an enemy. But, with that said, you'll notice, I have not mentioned Steve in my posts in this thread. OCURA WATCH will not be about Steve. (However, many here may be right in that he may have lit a fire.)

I know you and Steve have a shared passion for history of our city and you are friends; but Doug, read that column again and then come back here and try to claim he is a "friend" of this forum. He may be your friend - and that's great - but that's not the issue. Frankly, it bothers me that because of your friendship with Steve that you choose to defend him here and question us for holding Steve Lackmeyer responsible for his "clarification." This is an open forum - Steve hasn't written a single word here concerning this issue. He's a big boy and perfectly capable of defending himself if he so chose to do so. He hasn't. To me, that's telling.

In a final thought about Lackmeyer: there is much truth to the thinking that we probably should thank Steve. That last column simply underscored the fear many have of OCURA and clearly showed that cronyism is no "conspiracy theory." Remember, by ripping anonymity on this forum - he agreed to keep developers anonymous for his story - because they feared retribution! Enough said. And enough about Steve.

You're much loved around here, Doug. I know you want the best for Oklahoma City. I hope you'll join many of us in calling for an open, honest, accountable and reformed Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority.

Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better myself. The ultimate goal is what is best for OKC and better accountability and clarity with OCURA.

[BDP]

I think a good portion of the people on here are so full of sh*t their eyes are brown.

Please feel free to let which ones of us know who you think is "full of sh*t" and why.

Honestly, and sorry for singling you out, but I think these kind of drive by postings are exactly what give some credence to Lackmeyer's criticism of the medium, while at the same time, it's exactly what he did in his column.

If there is anything that gives internet forums a bad reputation, it's the tendency of so many participants to engage in vague and unsubstantiated attacks on others or their postings.

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug,

That is a clever bit of sophistry on your part. Tell me: what other Internet forum or blog could Steve have possibly been speaking about? There isn't one! Nice try, albeit disingenuous. Are you employed in the legal profession?

Disingenuous is my middle name! But ... see ...

Oklahoma Conservative Chat :: Index
Oklahoma's Forum - Index

There are several blogs which are politically oriented ... do I need to look them up for you, too?

[solitude]

Disingenuous is my middle name! But ... see ...

Oklahoma Conservative Chat :: Index
Oklahoma's Forum - Index

There are several blogs which are politically oriented ... do I need to look them up for you, too?

Oh, please. The defense of your friend is becoming embarrassing. Spartan's forum has the traffic in its OKC forum of what - a post every other day? You go a few threads deep and the last post was over a month ago! There was also no active discussion about OCURA preceding Lackmeyer's column. (Except a thread on old OCURA decisions in the 60's which led to a dead downtown for two decades.) You've always said "politics" isn't your thing and I guess we should take you at your word, as you then point us to the Oklahoma Conservative Forum? It's clear you have electoral politics and city governance confused.

You also say you don't see how his last column was a 180 on his earlier OCURA column. Could you explain how you see it? And Doug, honestly, how can you (cleverly) bash the anonymous posters of this forum and seemingly defend Steve's use of anonymous sourcing in his column?

As much as I love what you are doing for OKC history and your enthusiasm for NBA basketball, the lawyer Doug is starting to show.

[Midtowner]

I'm not sure what need there is to have Doug apologize for his beliefs or admit he is wrong.

You guys disagree about something [whether Lackmeyer is being honest or not] which is ultimately unimportant.

We all want OCURA to behave well. Sunshine never hurt anyone... not at least from the public's perspective.

[solitude]

I'm not sure what need there is to have Doug apologize for his beliefs or admit he is wrong.

You guys disagree about something [whether Lackmeyer is being honest or not] which is ultimately unimportant.

We all want OCURA to behave well. Sunshine never hurt anyone... not at least from the public's perspective.

No need for apologies or anything else. It's just a discussion. But you're right - the latter part of your post is what is truly important. The rest is just discussion - curiosity and dumbfoundery (made up word ) - more than anything.

BTW: I received your PM - I'll write back soon. We have a lot to talk about! This anonymity thing can be a problem when personal things and connections with our "real" selves enter into the equation!

[Doug Loudenback]

Oh, please. The defense of your friend is becoming embarrassing. Spartan's forum has the traffic in its OKC forum of what - a post every other day? You go a few threads deep and the last post was over a month ago! There was also no active discussion about OCURA preceding Lackmeyer's column. (Except a thread on old OCURA decisions in the 60's which led to a dead downtown for two decades.) You've always said "politics" isn't your thing and I guess we should take you at your word, as you then point us to the Oklahoma Conservative Forum? It's clear you have electoral politics and city governance confused.

You also say you don't see how his last column was a 180 on his earlier OCURA column. Could you explain how you see it? And Doug, honestly, how can you (cleverly) bash the anonymous posters of this forum and seemingly defend Steve's use of anonymous sourcing in his column?

As much as I love what you are doing for OKC history and your enthusiasm for NBA basketball, the lawyer Doug is starting to show.

I actually do dislike talking politics, particularly when I don't know who it is that I am speaking with (though it really isn't "my thing" even if I do ... kinda pointless unless one just enjoy hearing one's self speak). That criticism includes me, too.

I regret that we disagree about what we've discussed but I have no wish to devote more time to this than I've already done. As I've said before, "internet debate" leads nowhere ... no one is persuaded, nothing is gained, sometimes good things get lost in the quagmire as barbs get casually tossed around as though they don't matter. And, time is taken from other activities which do give satisfaction ... as for me, I'm going to use the next couple of hours finishing some maps for the Wichita Mountains thread in the Lawton forum here, for me and for those might enjoy having them.

Good luck with your web page.