New Downtown Arena

[Rover]

Of course that is with the understanding that the tax bill is what is payed. People in that income bracket are quite adept at reducing their taxes lower than what a 50k a year wage earner pays. What does OKC realize from those players making it a hell of a deal? I thought cities only realize sales tax revenue.
If the State of Oklahoma is realizing all this income tax revenue than the State should be the entity funding the arena they get revenue from.

Good grief. If the people can’t see the benefits having a nba team in OKC brings to it, then they probably don’t deserve to have them here. We can go back praying some double a hockey team is the top level entertainment and backwater image we strive for.

[Jersey Boss]

Good grief. If the people can’t see the benefits having a nba team in OKC brings to it, then they probably don’t deserve to have them here. We can go back praying some double a hockey team is the top level entertainment and backwater image we strive for.

Hyperbole much? It is not a big ask to have the state return some of the money they get from having this arena in OKC in order to continue to reap the tax benefits. To paraphrase if the state doesn't see the benefit of a new arena with the increased tax revenue than maybe Oklahoma doesn't deserve the team. At the least they should match OKC expenditures.

[Laramie]

Agree Rover & JB:

Ownership group's vision, we have a franchise so let's hold on to what we have.

State should chip in on a new NBA arena since it benefits from income tax dollars.

An NBA setting gives you a sense of pride. OKC continues to grow and get better with quality (OKANA, FAM),
thank you, Chickasaw Tribe.

Our new venue, make it a jewel among NBA arenas. State & ownership assistance together
should cover 50% of an anticipated development on City owned PSM site.

[Bellaboo]

Of course that is with the understanding that the tax bill is what is payed. People in that income bracket are quite adept at reducing their taxes lower than what a 50k a year wage earner pays. What does OKC realize from those players making it a hell of a deal? I thought cities only realize sales tax revenue.
If the State of Oklahoma is realizing all this income tax revenue than the State should be the entity funding the arena they get revenue from.

I should have stated it's a hell of a deal for state of Oklahoma. But we all know that the influx of the game crowd is a big payout to OKC. Whole lot of liquor tax being collected in the least.

[Jersey Boss]

I should have stated it's a hell of a deal for state of Oklahoma. But we all know that the influx of the game crowd is a big payout to OKC. Whole lot of liquor tax being collected in the least.

Great point on a lot of revenue collected on that 13.5% mixed drink tax. The State not OKC gets all of that tax revenue as well as 4.5% of the sales tax collected. Meanwhile it is a local cost for increased police to provide additional crowd security for the crowds and local business.

[Laramie]

Amway Center, Orlando, FL


Good entrance

Flexible bowl shaped arena with two upper decks


Construction cost: US $480 million (US$604 million in 2021 dollars)
Architect - Populous

NBA Seating Capacity: 18,500

At 875,000 square feet with a capacity of 18,500, this state-of-the-art arena features eight levels, 60 suites, 1,400 club seats and infinite ways to experience your next event.

A similar arena IMO would more than satisfy the NBA arena needs of Oklahoma City's future. It would provide 300 more seats from
18,203 (Paycom Center- 581,000 square footage) to 18,500 with 875,000 square footage and 60 suites and/or substitute some lodge boxes. It would sit on the 4 square block site of Prairie Surf Media Studios--City would save an estimated $150 million on land acquisition and underground parking which could be reconstructed.

MAPS 4 Initiative expires April 1, 2028 would need an extension vote September 2027.

Prairie Surf Media Studios would have to be demolished to make way for the new arena. City could place an extension vote before voters on the current MAPS 4 initiative for 3-4 years to make the arena debt free generating $600 million.

.

[Laramie]

[rtz]

When they had "thunder alley" going; that was the best thing for downtown. Didn't the crowd size reach something like 10,000 people before they stopped doing it? They should bring that back.

[April in the Plaza]

When they had "thunder alley" going; that was the best thing for downtown. Didn't the crowd size reach something like 10,000 people before they stopped doing it? They should bring that back.

Would be nice, but weren’t there a few too many shootings?

I’m assuming it’s just too much liability these days.

[king183]

Would be nice, but weren’t there a few too many shootings?

I’m assuming it’s just too much liability these days.

There was one shooting in Bricktown south of the ballpark that led to its closure. I always thought it was dumb that we had to lose an awesome event that brought all types of people downtown because of that, but if the regular violence in Midtown and Bricktown (and the accompanying inability of men to control their emotions) is now the norm, I don’t blame them for keeping it closed.

[Laramie]

Mega Grant Funds Application and other funding sources:

What is a mega grant : The Mega Program (known statutorily as the National Infrastructure Project Assistance program) will support large, complex projects that are difficult to fund by other means and likely to generate national or regional economic, mobility, or safety benefits.

U.S.Transportation: https://www.transportation.gov/grant...-grant-program


Oklahoma City should look carefully at a mega grant for development of a new arena and MAPS 4 multipurpose stadium. The new NBA arena would have the Oklahoma City Thunder as the anchor tenant and the Multipurpose Stadium could be used for USL and eventual MLS with a minimum seating capacity of 20,000 (expandable). Current stadium proposed to seat 8,000 minimum for the lower bowl.

Also study how to make the Oklahoma City downtown streetcar more efficient to tie into these projects.

New NBA arena has a potential $70 million on hold as a part of MAPS 4 funds for Paycom Center (Arena)/Thunder Alley development and $42 million for the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium. Paycom Center would be replaced with a new NBA specific arena.

Oklahoma City MSA 1,425,695 (2021 estimate) that's a 15,952 increase over 2020 MSA 1,441,647. Keeping with that trend, 2025 could top 1,489,503.

We have the population to support NBA and MLS with both venues (NBA 18,500 and Multipurpose Stadium 20,000 in our core.

[BoulderSooner]

Mega Grant Funds Application and other funding sources:

What is a mega grant : The Mega Program (known statutorily as the National Infrastructure Project Assistance program) will support large, complex projects that are difficult to fund by other means and likely to generate national or regional economic, mobility, or safety benefits.

U.S.Transportation: https://www.transportation.gov/grant...-grant-program


Oklahoma City should look carefully at a mega grant for development of a new arena and MAPS 4 multipurpose stadium. The new NBA arena would have the Oklahoma City Thunder as the anchor tenant and the Multipurpose Stadium could be used for USL and eventual MLS with a minimum seating capacity of 20,000 (expandable). Current stadium proposed to seat 8,000 minimum for the lower bowl.

Also study how to make the Oklahoma City downtown streetcar more efficient to tie into these projects.

New NBA arena has a potential $70 million on hold as a part of MAPS 4 funds for Paycom Center (Arena)/Thunder Alley development and $42 million for the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium. Paycom Center would be replaced with a new NBA specific arena.

Oklahoma City MSA 1,425,695 (2021 estimate) that's a 15,952 increase over 2020 MSA 1,441,647. Keeping with that trend, 2025 could top 1,489,503.

We have the population to support NBA and MLS with both venues (NBA 18,500 and Multipurpose Stadium 20,000 in our core.

um no

Eligible Uses: Projects eligible under the Megaprojects program include —
a highway or bridge project carried out on—
the National Multimodal Freight Network of title 49, United States Code;
the National Highway Freight Network, United States Code; or
the National Highway System, United States Code;
a freight intermodal (including public ports) or freight rail project that provides a public benefit;
a railway-highway grade separation or elimination project;
an intercity passenger rail project; and
certain public transportation projects that are eligible for Federal Transit Administration funding of title 49, United States Code, and is a part of one of other eligible project types above.

[Laramie]

um no

Eligible Uses: Projects eligible under the Megaprojects program include —
a highway or bridge project carried out on—
the National Multimodal Freight Network of title 49, United States Code;
the National Highway Freight Network, United States Code; or
the National Highway System, United States Code;
a freight intermodal (including public ports) or freight rail project that provides a public benefit;
a railway-highway grade separation or elimination project;
an intercity passenger rail project; and
certain public transportation projects that are eligible for Federal Transit Administration funding of title 49, United States Code, and is a part of one of other eligible project types above.

Thanks BoulderSooner for the clarification. That's probably why the MLB Oakland A's were denied a Mega Grant for their new stadium.

IMO Oklahoma City could plan for the future with a new NBA specific arena and a Multipurpose Stadium thru an extension of MAPS 4 or bonds (If we haven't exceeded our bonding capacity).

[April in the Plaza]

Thanks BoulderSooner for the clarification. That's probably why the MLB Oakland A's were denied a Mega Grant for their new stadium.

IMO Oklahoma City could plan for the future with a new NBA specific arena and a Multipurpose Stadium thru an extension of MAPS 4 or bonds (If we haven't exceeded our bonding capacity).

The ownership group / state needs to be chipping in a decent share on this. Not cool to stick OKC with all of the cost when it’s fairly obvious that the Thunder have been responsible for a decent share of the recent growth trajectory.

[PoliSciGuy]

The ownership group / state needs to be chipping in a decent share on this. Not cool to stick OKC with all of the cost when it’s fairly obvious that the Thunder have been responsible for a decent share of the recent growth trajectory.

Do you have some studies that show this impact? I'd love to read them

[shai2022]

Do you have some studies that show this impact? I'd love to read them

Both "Major League Winners" and "Reversing Urban Decline" by Mark Rosentraub - professor at Michigan School of Kinesiology and consultant on LA Live, Mercedes Benz in ATL, Little Caesars Arena in Detroit, and Texas Live.

[April in the Plaza]

Do you have some studies that show this impact? I'd love to read them

The BLS numbers (okc vs. tulsa) tend to bear it out since Tulsa is a reasonably good control city.

There are several studies, but they tend to cut both ways, confirming the biases of the researchers.

[PoliSciGuy]

Both "Major League Winners" and "Reversing Urban Decline" by Mark Rosentraub - professor at Michigan School of Kinesiology and consultant on LA Live, Mercedes Benz in ATL, Little Caesars Arena in Detroit, and Texas Live.

A kinesiology (?) doc who consults with organizations that want to build publicly-backed stadiums isn't exactly a non-biased source

The BLS numbers (okc vs. tulsa) tend to bear it out since Tulsa is a reasonably good control city.

There are several studies, but they tend to cut both ways, confirming the biases of the researchers.

So then it's not "fairly obvious" that the Thunder have been responsible for statewide growth trajectory, but rather debatable.

[shai2022]

A kinesiology (?) doc who consults with organizations that want to build publicly-backed stadiums isn't exactly a non-biased source



So then it's not "fairly obvious" that the Thunder have been responsible for statewide growth trajectory, but rather debatable.

He is the leading professor in his field at the number one Sport Management program in the county. As someone who majored in Sport Management and business Rosentraub is known as the gold standard.

[April in the Plaza]

A kinesiology (?) doc who consults with organizations that want to build publicly-backed stadiums isn't exactly a non-biased source



So then it's not "fairly obvious" that the Thunder have been responsible for statewide growth trajectory, but rather debatable.

No. On most of this. Numbers are rather clear.

[Laramie]

BEYOND PAYCOM CENTER, FUTURE OF NBA IN OKC

Here's an interesting interview aired on the Oklahoma Breakdown hosted by Ikard and Lehman with Mayor Holt where many of the concerns listed in the discussions above are touched on:

https://www.google.com/search?q=okla...id:gByvphm5K18

[Laramie]

.

Oklahoma City consulting firm, CMA Strategies is asking Oklahoma City residents whether they might support a one-cent sales tax over six year period to pay for a $750 million new arena to replace Paycom Center.

The poll also suggests the Oklahoma City Thunder ownership will contribute $75 million for a new arena in which the owners would be responsible for 10% of the $750 million price tag.

Oklahoma City Mayor David Holt indicated he was aware of the poll and doesn’t believe it represents potential terms with the Thunder, though he confirmed “a team contribution has always been a part of the conversation.”

Mayor Holt said, “Whenever I say this should be in line with recent models in similar sized markets, a team contribution has become a part of every recent arena deal, even in the smaller markets,”

The site currently home to Prairie Surf Studios immediately north of the 20-year-old Paycom Center is widely viewed as the most likely location for a new arena because it has streetcar access on all four sides.

City officials and those running the studio agreed that when a five year lease was signed in 2020 the arrangement was not going to be long term.

“This is really the issue of 2023, at least from a mayor’s perspective,” Holt said during a live chat hosted by The Oklahoman in which he revealed the new arena will be a topic of community discussion this year.

“Our $190 million arena is the smallest in the NBA, now above the average age, and it is the second-cheapest. And as one of the three smallest markets in the league, we have to do more, not less, to hold our place. This will require my personal negotiation and advocacy as we work towards a proposal for the community to consider that will preserve a long-term relationship with major league professional sports."

Mayor Holt cautioned not to presume the poll represents potential terms of any new arena proposal.

The Oklahoma City mayor declined to confirm or deny the numbers cited in the poll. He noted the poll by McFerron is prefaced with a request to answer questions based on whether “statements” would make the respondent more likely to vote yes or no.

The OKC mayor went on to say “People ask lots of questions in polls, I can’t comment on conversations we are having … dollar amounts are not decided. Someone throwing a number out is speculation and not reflective of actual conversations.”


What are your thoughts on a new arena development in which the NBA Oklahoma City Thunder would be anchor tenant,
.

[bombermwc]

I've been saying that the Myriad site is where the new arena would be going all along. Just develop the extra land for hotel space. Dont need some sort of crazy grid restoration either....it just restricts the available land to work with when you start thinking grand/big ideas of what could be.

I'm actually going to be a little sad to see the Paycom go when it goes. The place is really REALLY nice. It's laughable when you think back to what we had with the Myriad back in the day, as our main option. What a pile it was. Anyone remember red duct tape on the seats? Barely functioning popcorn concessions. The Paycom is still nice and has a lot of options all the way around the place now. All of the renovations have really made a huge difference in what it is compared to when the MAPs arena opened. It's just shame that it's going to now be put to the side. Not demolished, there's too much value in NOT doing that. But think of what the possibilities are as the next jump up. If we can make the same leap from the Paycom to New Arena 3.0 as we did from the Myriad to Ford....wow!

[HOT ROD]

bomber, I (and probably most on here) agree that the myriad site is the obvious choice in that the ONLY issue with it will be the removal/deconstruction of the existing building (as an added cost).

I only disagree with you on how we should treat the myriad area in that I think we should restore the grid and build an LA Live type development with hotels and entertainment venues and allow CBD expansion on the northern portion of the site at least fronting Sheridan. This may be a longer term solution but we could also look at ways to retain the 'recent' myriad addition on the north, it'd make an awesome transit hub. And certainly we need to retain if not expand the underground parking.

Anyway - just chiming in.

[Laramie]

Would love to see a 20,500 seat arena. Although you could set aside a section 2,000 seats at the very top level for NBA basketball where you're only using 18,500 seats.

If demand grows like an NCAA Regional, open the full arena. I want Oklahoma City to be able to host an SEC basketball tournament or a Big 12 basketball tournament when the conference expands.