Crossroads Mall

[oklip955]

As stated by other posters, the area is a bit rough. I would think that the city of OKC or some other group would find a way to purchase the property and other vacent properties in the area. Along with this would be a relocation of the school to a better location. The demolition of this mall would take place and the area repurposed to industrial/warehouse uses that would generate jobs for the area due to its "cross roads" location. I dont think many people would want to look out to the view of a large mountain of covered trash. I just think the area needs to go to industrial and generate jobs. Maybe with that the areas to the west will be the housing of some of these jobs and that would continue to support the shopping in the area.

[HOT ROD]

OKC needs to get a USFL team. Bad

with eyes on NFL as the next Big4 major league eventually. F MLB and NHL, the only league OKC should get besides MLS is NFL; until then get USFL. Tulsa should eventually go after NHL.

Oklahoma major league teams 2035:

Oklahoma City Thunder (NBA) est 2008
Oklahoma City Spark (WPF) est 2023
Oklahoma City Energy (MLS) est 2025
Tulsa Talons (NHL) est 2030
Oklahoma City Lightning (NFL) est 2035

AAA

Oklahoma City Blue (NBA/G-League) est 2010?
Oklahoma City Dodgers (mlb/AAA) est 2011?
Oklahoma City Wranglers (USFL) est 2030

[bombermwc]

i mean the Idea was ridiculous in the first place. playing indoor arena rules in an outdoor temporary cheaply put together stadium in spring all across tornado alley.

Agreed. I always thought this was stupid.

[Cocaine]

The building is honestly still good with plenty of parking spaces in the area. Parking could be used for more housing too. Do not forget that there are two schools in the area Dove and Santa Fe South.

The best option really would be redevelopment. I did do some work at Santa Fe South and that area is in good condition. But everything else is trash and pretty much isn't really being worked on.

So it would need to be real redevelopment in multiple areas not just the main area of the mall but also adjacent properties. Tearing it down really isn't the best solution because it's still good infrastructure and what are the chances it gets torn down and nothing happens? Think about how many times that's happened and there has been. An empty lot for 20 years. Never forget the Pei plan.

I wouldn't say the areas nearby are that bad because of the fact most people will not bother you. And if it is redeveloped with the original mall along with apartments and retail / office. That would be a much better look especially if it had more frequent bus acccess.

[citywokchinesefood]

OKC needs to get a USFL team. Bad

with eyes on NFL as the next Big4 major league eventually. F MLB and NHL, the only league OKC should get besides MLS is NFL; until then get USFL. Tulsa should eventually go after NHL.

Oklahoma major league teams 2035:

Oklahoma City Thunder (NBA) est 2008
Oklahoma City Spark (WPF) est 2023
Oklahoma City Energy (MLS) est 2025
Tulsa Talons (NHL) est 2030
Oklahoma City Lightning (NFL) est 2035

AAA

Oklahoma City Blue (NBA/G-League) est 2010?
Oklahoma City Dodgers (mlb/AAA) est 2011?
Oklahoma City Wranglers (USFL) est 2030

We have absolutely no chance to get an MLS team in 2025 let alone 2035. An NFL team for OKC and an NHL team for Tulsa inside of the next 30 years is a fever dream. I would love to see more pro sports in Oklahoma, but we just do not have the media market/corporate base to even be a target for NFL/MLB/NHL expansion.

[Laramie]

Citywokchinesefood set aside your chopsticks--that's the same ole song we heard in the late 90s and early 2000s that OKC would never be able to attract an NHL expansion franchise let alone an NBA franchise to our city. When we finally proved the 'nay sayers' wrong--many claimed the NBA wouldn't last past three years in Oklahoma City. The Thunder are in their 14th season in OKC and we have hosted an NBA franchise for 16 years.

The state of Oklahoma should chip in to help with a new NBA arena in Oklahoma City and interior upgrades to BOK Center in Tulsa.

When Oklahoma City applied for an NHL expansion franchise in 1996, our 2000 MSA (1,083,346) was similar to what Tulsa 2020 MSA is now (1,023,988).

Therefore IMO if Tulsa wanted to apply for an NHL expansion or relocation franchise the combined TV-Household for both Oklahoma City & Tulsa exceeds 1.25 million TV Households. The NBA Thunder are televised in both Oklahoma City and Tulsa markets.

The amount of sales taxes collected for the state from both of Oklahoma's two largest MSA deserves help with the two largest cities to attract major sports, conventions, meetings and events that bring out-of-state dollars into Oklahoma.

.

[gjl]

Well we technically really didn't attract a NBA franchise. We had wealthy Oklahoman's buy an NBA franchise and move them here. And if it wasn't for Katrine we wouldn't have had one here those other 2 years. But saying all that I'm glad we have the Thunder and support them the way OKC does. But the typical attendance numbers at a Thunder game don't come anywhere close to the numbers required to support a NFL franchise. And the way the values of existing NFL franchises are skyrocketing I doubt one would ever be bought and moved here.

[jn1780]

Another pro team wouldn't be good for the Thunder nor would it be good for that other pro team. We can barely support the Thunder as it is. The Thunder were a solid team for the first 10 years at OKC. They are now in the rebuild drought years. The test for the Thunder is how strong fan support is if the drought lasts 5 plus years.
http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

[bombermwc]

Well the combined MSA of Tulsa and OKC make for what's needed to support a second team. Neither city can support 2 on their own. If they aren't in the same sport, you might get away with something being in Tulsa. But what it is, well that's the catch. NFL isn't going to happen. Neither, even together, have what it takes to support that. But with NHL or MLS, is there strong enough support from 100 miles away to prop that up? Are people going to regularly take the turnpike for NHL or MLS? I would think NBA has a bigger chance of pulling Tulsa traffic to OKC for the occasional game. But i'm not confident that MLS or NHL have that level of draw to pull people from OKC up to Tulsa regularly. Now, throw in a high speed rail between the cities, and you might have something going for you

But there really is only so much corporate money to go around. And if someone in Tulsa really wanted to own some sort of pro team, they already would. As said above, that's what it would take to make it happen. Not only would someone from Tulsa have to buy something, but then the league would have to approve it. The NBA was already unhappy with the situation in Seattle and the Sonics. Key Arena (sorry, Climate Pledge Arena....cough cough)is still there, which just adds to the argument to leave.

At least with NHL, you already have the BOK so there's nothing that has to get built. But is hockey really drawing people like that anymore? MLB certainly isn't, so i'm not even discussing that as an option.

[Cocaine]

The catch is that if an MLS, MLB or NHL ends up in Oklahoma it'll be in Tulsa. If we want to watch it we can drive on down to Tulsa and come back. MLB and NHL draw people but they are so far down compared to the NFL in popularity and the NBA has worldwide draw so it would just be something else to do in the state. OU / OSU is small fries and just something that people wanna talk about. How many people in another country would talk about OU Football? But the thunder of course, even mlb does get views in Japan / korea.

[BoulderSooner]

The NFL would work in the middle of no where it is by far the most popular sport in the Country ....... and it is 9 games a year .. just need a deca billionaire to buy a team and move it here .. because the NFL is never expanding to okc

[citywokchinesefood]

Citywokchinesefood set aside your chopsticks--that's the same ole song we heard in the late 90s and early 2000s that OKC would never be able to attract an NHL expansion franchise let alone an NBA franchise to our city. When we finally proved the 'nay sayers' wrong--many claimed the NBA wouldn't last past three years in Oklahoma City. The Thunder are in their 14th season in OKC and we have hosted an NBA franchise for 16 years.

The state of Oklahoma should chip in to help with a new NBA arena in Oklahoma City and interior upgrades to BOK Center in Tulsa.

When Oklahoma City applied for an NHL expansion franchise in 1996, our 2000 MSA (1,083,346) was similar to what Tulsa 2020 MSA is now (1,023,988).

Therefore IMO if Tulsa wanted to apply for an NHL expansion or relocation franchise the combined TV-Household for both Oklahoma City & Tulsa exceeds 1.25 million TV Households. The NBA Thunder are televised in both Oklahoma City and Tulsa markets.

The amount of sales taxes collected for the state from both of Oklahoma's two largest MSA deserves help with the two largest cities to attract major sports, conventions, meetings and events that bring out-of-state dollars into Oklahoma.

.

Keep smoking that copium. I don't understand how any of this is relevant to the facts of the matter. Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team the only reason any city smaller than OKC has an NFL team is because they are literally a legacy franchise like the Green Bay Packers. All you are saying in this entire qoute is that you do not understand the impact of media markets and corporate bases for expansion teams for major sports. I would love to have an NHL team in the state, but Bettman has straight up said no NHL expansion in the foreseeable future. On top of that, any additional expansion team would more than likely end up being in Canada or a bigger hockey state like Wisconsin. Both have previously been discussed, but the NHL is currently not looking to expand at all for this decade at least. The NFL is a literal fever dream because of the cost of a franchise, facility, and our size as a media market. Baseball is dying, nobody under 30 gives a rat's ass about the MLB these days. The only major pro league that has ANY chance to come to Oklahoma is MLS. With that being said OKC is not even an expansion candidate at this point in time and won't be until an ownership group is ready to pony up $350 million or more for a franchise. So, Oklahoma is approximately one billionaire that wants to blow half a billion dollars on an MLS team away from being a candidate city let alone securing a franchise.

[Dob Hooligan]

Oklahoma City already has pro football-The OU Sooners. By any measure OU football has an enterprise value larger than some of the smaller NFL teams, such as Jacksonville Jaguars, Cincinnati Bengals, or Nashville Titans. So much like Austin Texas or Columbus Ohio don't have the NFL, our market isn't big enough to support 2 teams.

When I was paying attention to the Las Vegas MLS expansion efforts a couple years ago, I recall MLS is already committed to 35 or 37 cities total. And OKC is not on the list. A league going from $20 million (or so) franchise fees 12 years ago to $350 million today is as big a gamble on the future as it was 48 years ago when Pele signed with the New York Cosmos of the NASL.

[BoulderSooner]

Oklahoma City already has pro football-The OU Sooners. By any measure OU football has an enterprise value larger than some of the smaller NFL teams, such as Jacksonville Jaguars, Cincinnati Bengals, or Nashville Titans. So much like Austin Texas or Columbus Ohio don't have the NFL, our market isn't big enough to support 2 teams.

When I was paying attention to the Las Vegas MLS expansion efforts a couple years ago, I recall MLS is already committed to 35 or 37 cities total. And OKC is not on the list. A league going from $20 million (or so) franchise fees 12 years ago to $350 million today is as big a gamble on the future as it was 48 years ago when Pele signed with the New York Cosmos of the NASL.

i love OU football more then about any one .... but no it doesn't ...

the NFL is the 1000 pound Gorilla ... it dwarfs everything else

[citywokchinesefood]

i love OU football more then about any one .... but no it doesn't ...

the NFL is the 1000 pound Gorilla ... it dwarfs everything else

That gorilla also has a likely 4-5 billion dollar franchise fee attached to it on top of a stadium.

[BoulderSooner]

That gorilla also has a likely 4-5 billion dollar franchise fee attached to it on top of a stadium.

o i agree but don't get it twisted if George Kaiser or Harlold Hamm bought an NFL team for 4 bill and asked OKC and the state to build him a stadium so they could move it to OKC tulsa or anadako the state would in a sec .. a it would sell out every game

[Bill Robertson]

o i agree but don't get it twisted if George Kaiser or Harlold Hamm bought an NFL team for 4 bill and asked OKC and the state to build him a stadium so they could move it to OKC tulsa or anadako the state would in a sec .. a it would sell out every game

I doubt it will ever happen. Two things against selling out every game. First, restaurants and such are much slower now than a year ago. The cost of just living has put many people that could have afforded an NFL game or two a year out of the market now. And second, the team would have to be competitive. Like deep in the playoffs competitive. There were literally tons of free tickets available for 1990s Sooner games.

[Swake]

The NFL in Oklahoma would have another issue to overcome, at least in OKC. Jerry Jones considers OKC one of his markets for the Cowboys. He might try to claim Tulsa too, but the Cowboys and the Chiefs are the same distance from Tulsa and both have fan bases here.

[bombermwc]

I agree with Boulder and Swake.

IF, the opportunity ever came up, the state/city would figure out a way to do it and the expense of anything and everything else. Even if we're the Browns, in their mind, it would have meant that we "made it". I would hope that they would be more realistic than that but i'm not holding my breathe.

But that does assume that it would even be allowed. OKC is a multi-team market (chiefs/cowboys/etc), but in Mr Jones' mind, we're his. Cuban sort of had the same thought with the Mavericks, but wasn't nearly as much of a turd about it as Jones would be. But it doesn't matter, we're not getting NFL. No one wants MLB. NHL is NOT expanding.

MLS is still the thing to keep an eye on. It's far cheaper than the others, so if that's what our eyes are one, i actually feel like OKC would still stand the chance to host that team.
If Presti will ever pull his head out of butt with how he is managing talent, the Thunder might actually get to doing something again. And that helps everyone as the team is more popular.


But we're getting super distracted and off topic here.

So Crossroads. I saw on one of Lackmeyer's Friday Chats (where people thing he actually is the authority on these decisions for some reason) commented on both Heritage Park and Crossroads as possible jail sites. In this case, i do agree with him that neither site is viable for this purpose. But we should also face the fact that the owners may be interested in that concept. Heritage Park's spot would be totally stupid and MWC would fight that with all their might. Crossroads, well it's not a great selling point having a school on-site. And another school a block away.

So we're back to what do you do with it? It's designed in a way like Shepard where it's easily convertible to office space. But the anchor stores actually could be fairly easily. Those brick walls are not load bearing, so it would be easy to cut in windows. Open floor plans are the thing these days, so you can put in a cube farm with ample parking. But is there a market need for that? Especially in this area? Yeah, no. But it's capable of doing that. So what else would it be capable of doing?

[jn1780]

There's plenty of office space right now, unless businesses are looking for dirt cheap office space. That's what they are trying to do with Crossroads right now. Dirt cheap business space, if someone wanted some office space, I'm sure they wouldn't say no.

[Just the facts]

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

[Laramie]

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

^ Agree ^

As for the future of the NBA in OKC; IF we're going to build a new arena--we need to evaluate the long-term investment of how a new arena can better serve all future events as our city moves forward.

[BoulderSooner]

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

lol of course you feel that way ...

[HOT ROD]

The NFL would work in the middle of no where it is by far the most popular sport in the Country ....... and it is 9 games a year .. just need a deca billionaire to buy a team and move it here .. because the NFL is never expanding to okc

EXACTLY, NFL is only a handfull of home games and OKC sells out both OU and OSU, there's football fans in Oklahoma esp when you consider the 4 million people in the state. Also, with NFL you'd have catchment market just like you do with the NBA. OKC's NBA catchment is more than 15 million people (OK, most of Ark, most of KS, most of MO, E half of NE); those are all the cable markets that subscribe to the OKC thunder, now while NFL wouldn't be as big of a catchment it also isn't as many games.

NFL in OKC is totally doable, all that's missing is a stadium and an ownership group. NFL draws corporate sponsors globally (as does the NBA) so OKC's relative lack there isn't a big deal. Just need the will of OKC to build a stadium combined with an owner who wants to buy and move a team (and there are some out there). As I stated, NFL is next for OKC aside from MLS; that's probably the sweet spot for OKC in terms of major league teams. Tulsa is destined for NHL in 10-15 years; that would give Oklahoma 4 teams in the big 5 major leagues, 5 if you could Oklahoma City Spark WFP.

As for OKC's support of the NBA, have you paid attention to the prizes offered by the OKC Thunder and the game experience? Compare that to other so-called small but more mature markets? OKC swings like a major market by comparison, must be doing well here. Oh, and the 'rebuild' is over if you haven't noticed.

[Dob Hooligan]

EXACTLY, NFL is only a handfull of home games and OKC sells out both OU and OSU, there's football fans in Oklahoma esp when you consider the 4 million people in the state. Also, with NFL you'd have catchment market just like you do with the NBA. OKC's NBA catchment is more than 15 million people (OK, most of Ark, most of KS, most of MO, E half of NE); those are all the cable markets that subscribe to the OKC thunder, now while NFL wouldn't be as big of a catchment it also isn't as many games.

NFL in OKC is totally doable, all that's missing is a stadium and an ownership group. NFL draws corporate sponsors globally (as does the NBA) so OKC's relative lack there isn't a big deal. Just need the will of OKC to build a stadium combined with an owner who wants to buy and move a team (and there are some out there). As I stated, NFL is next for OKC aside from MLS; that's probably the sweet spot for OKC in terms of major league teams. Tulsa is destined for NHL in 10-15 years; that would give Oklahoma 4 teams in the big 5 major leagues, 5 if you could Oklahoma City Spark WFP.

As for OKC's support of the NBA, have you paid attention to the prizes offered by the OKC Thunder and the game experience? Compare that to other so-called small but more mature markets? OKC swings like a major market by comparison, must be doing well here. Oh, and the 'rebuild' is over if you haven't noticed.

The Denver Bronchos sold for just under $6 billion and the Washington Commanders are probably going to be close to $8 billion when they sell within the next year-ish. Add in $2 billion for a stadium and we are looking at $8 to 10 billion spent to bring a team to Oklahoma. Plus OU, OSU and the Dallas Cowboys having to agree it isn't going to hurt any of them financially.

I don't see any way that could happen.