Crossroads Mall

[Dob Hooligan]

Oklahoma City already has pro football-The OU Sooners. By any measure OU football has an enterprise value larger than some of the smaller NFL teams, such as Jacksonville Jaguars, Cincinnati Bengals, or Nashville Titans. So much like Austin Texas or Columbus Ohio don't have the NFL, our market isn't big enough to support 2 teams.

When I was paying attention to the Las Vegas MLS expansion efforts a couple years ago, I recall MLS is already committed to 35 or 37 cities total. And OKC is not on the list. A league going from $20 million (or so) franchise fees 12 years ago to $350 million today is as big a gamble on the future as it was 48 years ago when Pele signed with the New York Cosmos of the NASL.

[BoulderSooner]

Oklahoma City already has pro football-The OU Sooners. By any measure OU football has an enterprise value larger than some of the smaller NFL teams, such as Jacksonville Jaguars, Cincinnati Bengals, or Nashville Titans. So much like Austin Texas or Columbus Ohio don't have the NFL, our market isn't big enough to support 2 teams.

When I was paying attention to the Las Vegas MLS expansion efforts a couple years ago, I recall MLS is already committed to 35 or 37 cities total. And OKC is not on the list. A league going from $20 million (or so) franchise fees 12 years ago to $350 million today is as big a gamble on the future as it was 48 years ago when Pele signed with the New York Cosmos of the NASL.

i love OU football more then about any one .... but no it doesn't ...

the NFL is the 1000 pound Gorilla ... it dwarfs everything else

[citywokchinesefood]

i love OU football more then about any one .... but no it doesn't ...

the NFL is the 1000 pound Gorilla ... it dwarfs everything else

That gorilla also has a likely 4-5 billion dollar franchise fee attached to it on top of a stadium.

[BoulderSooner]

That gorilla also has a likely 4-5 billion dollar franchise fee attached to it on top of a stadium.

o i agree but don't get it twisted if George Kaiser or Harlold Hamm bought an NFL team for 4 bill and asked OKC and the state to build him a stadium so they could move it to OKC tulsa or anadako the state would in a sec .. a it would sell out every game

[Bill Robertson]

o i agree but don't get it twisted if George Kaiser or Harlold Hamm bought an NFL team for 4 bill and asked OKC and the state to build him a stadium so they could move it to OKC tulsa or anadako the state would in a sec .. a it would sell out every game

I doubt it will ever happen. Two things against selling out every game. First, restaurants and such are much slower now than a year ago. The cost of just living has put many people that could have afforded an NFL game or two a year out of the market now. And second, the team would have to be competitive. Like deep in the playoffs competitive. There were literally tons of free tickets available for 1990s Sooner games.

[Swake]

The NFL in Oklahoma would have another issue to overcome, at least in OKC. Jerry Jones considers OKC one of his markets for the Cowboys. He might try to claim Tulsa too, but the Cowboys and the Chiefs are the same distance from Tulsa and both have fan bases here.

[bombermwc]

I agree with Boulder and Swake.

IF, the opportunity ever came up, the state/city would figure out a way to do it and the expense of anything and everything else. Even if we're the Browns, in their mind, it would have meant that we "made it". I would hope that they would be more realistic than that but i'm not holding my breathe.

But that does assume that it would even be allowed. OKC is a multi-team market (chiefs/cowboys/etc), but in Mr Jones' mind, we're his. Cuban sort of had the same thought with the Mavericks, but wasn't nearly as much of a turd about it as Jones would be. But it doesn't matter, we're not getting NFL. No one wants MLB. NHL is NOT expanding.

MLS is still the thing to keep an eye on. It's far cheaper than the others, so if that's what our eyes are one, i actually feel like OKC would still stand the chance to host that team.
If Presti will ever pull his head out of butt with how he is managing talent, the Thunder might actually get to doing something again. And that helps everyone as the team is more popular.


But we're getting super distracted and off topic here.

So Crossroads. I saw on one of Lackmeyer's Friday Chats (where people thing he actually is the authority on these decisions for some reason) commented on both Heritage Park and Crossroads as possible jail sites. In this case, i do agree with him that neither site is viable for this purpose. But we should also face the fact that the owners may be interested in that concept. Heritage Park's spot would be totally stupid and MWC would fight that with all their might. Crossroads, well it's not a great selling point having a school on-site. And another school a block away.

So we're back to what do you do with it? It's designed in a way like Shepard where it's easily convertible to office space. But the anchor stores actually could be fairly easily. Those brick walls are not load bearing, so it would be easy to cut in windows. Open floor plans are the thing these days, so you can put in a cube farm with ample parking. But is there a market need for that? Especially in this area? Yeah, no. But it's capable of doing that. So what else would it be capable of doing?

[jn1780]

There's plenty of office space right now, unless businesses are looking for dirt cheap office space. That's what they are trying to do with Crossroads right now. Dirt cheap business space, if someone wanted some office space, I'm sure they wouldn't say no.

[Just the facts]

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

[Laramie]

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

^ Agree ^

As for the future of the NBA in OKC; IF we're going to build a new arena--we need to evaluate the long-term investment of how a new arena can better serve all future events as our city moves forward.

[BoulderSooner]

The NFL is a financial black hole for everyone except the NFL, and almost every city is being held hostage by them. That is a poison pill OKC would be better off not swallowing.

lol of course you feel that way ...

[HOT ROD]

The NFL would work in the middle of no where it is by far the most popular sport in the Country ....... and it is 9 games a year .. just need a deca billionaire to buy a team and move it here .. because the NFL is never expanding to okc

EXACTLY, NFL is only a handfull of home games and OKC sells out both OU and OSU, there's football fans in Oklahoma esp when you consider the 4 million people in the state. Also, with NFL you'd have catchment market just like you do with the NBA. OKC's NBA catchment is more than 15 million people (OK, most of Ark, most of KS, most of MO, E half of NE); those are all the cable markets that subscribe to the OKC thunder, now while NFL wouldn't be as big of a catchment it also isn't as many games.

NFL in OKC is totally doable, all that's missing is a stadium and an ownership group. NFL draws corporate sponsors globally (as does the NBA) so OKC's relative lack there isn't a big deal. Just need the will of OKC to build a stadium combined with an owner who wants to buy and move a team (and there are some out there). As I stated, NFL is next for OKC aside from MLS; that's probably the sweet spot for OKC in terms of major league teams. Tulsa is destined for NHL in 10-15 years; that would give Oklahoma 4 teams in the big 5 major leagues, 5 if you could Oklahoma City Spark WFP.

As for OKC's support of the NBA, have you paid attention to the prizes offered by the OKC Thunder and the game experience? Compare that to other so-called small but more mature markets? OKC swings like a major market by comparison, must be doing well here. Oh, and the 'rebuild' is over if you haven't noticed.

[Dob Hooligan]

EXACTLY, NFL is only a handfull of home games and OKC sells out both OU and OSU, there's football fans in Oklahoma esp when you consider the 4 million people in the state. Also, with NFL you'd have catchment market just like you do with the NBA. OKC's NBA catchment is more than 15 million people (OK, most of Ark, most of KS, most of MO, E half of NE); those are all the cable markets that subscribe to the OKC thunder, now while NFL wouldn't be as big of a catchment it also isn't as many games.

NFL in OKC is totally doable, all that's missing is a stadium and an ownership group. NFL draws corporate sponsors globally (as does the NBA) so OKC's relative lack there isn't a big deal. Just need the will of OKC to build a stadium combined with an owner who wants to buy and move a team (and there are some out there). As I stated, NFL is next for OKC aside from MLS; that's probably the sweet spot for OKC in terms of major league teams. Tulsa is destined for NHL in 10-15 years; that would give Oklahoma 4 teams in the big 5 major leagues, 5 if you could Oklahoma City Spark WFP.

As for OKC's support of the NBA, have you paid attention to the prizes offered by the OKC Thunder and the game experience? Compare that to other so-called small but more mature markets? OKC swings like a major market by comparison, must be doing well here. Oh, and the 'rebuild' is over if you haven't noticed.

The Denver Bronchos sold for just under $6 billion and the Washington Commanders are probably going to be close to $8 billion when they sell within the next year-ish. Add in $2 billion for a stadium and we are looking at $8 to 10 billion spent to bring a team to Oklahoma. Plus OU, OSU and the Dallas Cowboys having to agree it isn't going to hurt any of them financially.

I don't see any way that could happen.

[BoulderSooner]

The Denver Bronchos sold for just under $6 billion and the Washington Commanders are probably going to be close to $8 billion when they sell within the next year-ish. Add in $2 billion for a stadium and we are looking at $8 to 10 billion spent to bring a team to Oklahoma. Plus OU, OSU and the Dallas Cowboys having to agree it isn't going to hurt any of them financially.

I don't see any way that could happen.

the cowboys yes would have to agree OU and osu woudn't have any say at all ...


and of course the need for some one with strong Oklahoma ties wanting to spend 5+ billion dollars to buy a team and want want to try to move it .. it is not going to happen ..

[Dob Hooligan]

the cowboys yes would have to agree OU and osu woudn't have any say at all ...


and of course the need for some one with strong Oklahoma ties wanting to spend 5+ billion dollars to buy a team and want want to try to move it .. it is not going to happen ..

You think anyone in Oklahoma spending that kinda money wouldn't care what OU or OSU said?

[citywokchinesefood]

If Presti will ever pull his head out of butt with how he is managing talent, the Thunder might actually get to doing something again. And that helps everyone as the team is more popular.

This is maybe the worst take on the Thunder I have ever seen here and that is saying something. I appreciate that you would like the team to win more games, but you are ****ting on one of the best general managers in basketball. The Thunder being more popular is not going to bring an NFL team here. No local billionaire or group of billionaires is going to force a team here, the NFL is not coming to Oklahoma.

[BoulderSooner]

This is maybe the worst take on the Thunder I have ever seen here and that is saying something. I appreciate that you would like the team to win more games, but you are ****ting on one of the best general managers in basketball. The Thunder being more popular is not going to bring an NFL team here. No local billionaire or group of billionaires is going to force a team here, the NFL is not coming to Oklahoma.

yes and yes

[April in the Plaza]

You think anyone in Oklahoma spending that kinda money wouldn't care what OU or OSU said?

I don’t think either party would have much of a say in the matter. Just like they had no say when Clay and Aubrey acquired the rights to the Thunder.

Granted, this is all a bit moot as the NFL/ownership groups would have a number of cities it would prioritize over OKC if it were to expand.

[jn1780]

Not sure why this thread keeps diverging to pie in the sky talk. Even if that pie materializes, the odds of a stadium being built at crossroads are low.

[bombermwc]

Well we had gotten back on topic about Crossroads, and then it went down the rabbit hole again.


So about that Crossroads Mall....

[Just the facts]

Not sure why this thread keeps diverging to pie in the sky talk. Even if that pie materializes, the odds of a stadium being built at crossroads are low.

NFL at Crossroads is actually the most viable thing that can happen there. Interstate junctions don't attract adjact freeway- focused development except maybe the occasional truck stop.

[jn1780]

NFL at Crossroads is actually the most viable thing that can happen there. Interstate junctions don't attract adjact freeway- focused development except maybe the occasional truck stop.

Well now with Tulsa King production gone, there is no chance to have Crossroads in an episode where the Tulsa King buys his own mall and arena football team to hide the true nature of his operations. lol

[jedicurt]

Well now with Tulsa King production gone, there is no chance to have Crossroads in an episode where the Tulsa King buys his own mall and arena football team to hide the true nature of his operations. lol

that actually leads into a conversation i was having with someone not to long ago who suggested that if the current Prairie Studios (former Cox site) is chosen for the next Thunder Arena, that they should buy and take over crossroads and turn it into a studio space.

[EtanEiko]

The Denver Bronchos sold for just under $6 billion and the Washington Commanders are probably going to be close to $8 billion when they sell within the next year-ish. Add in $2 billion for a stadium and we are looking at $8 to 10 billion spent to bring a team to Oklahoma. Plus OU, OSU and the Dallas Cowboys having to agree it isn't going to hurt any of them financially.

I don't see any way that could happen.

4.65 billion dollars is not almost 6 billion. Its hard to imagine truly thinking OKC will every have an NFL team. It is never happening. But USFL would be cool!

[bombermwc]

that actually leads into a conversation i was having with someone not to long ago who suggested that if the current Prairie Studios (former Cox site) is chosen for the next Thunder Arena, that they should buy and take over crossroads and turn it into a studio space.

Does it have large enough contiguous uninterrupted space to do that? The columns in those department stores get in the way of anything of any size being done. Not sure the department stores are constructed in a way that they could remove the floors for the needed ceiling height, without compromising the structural integrity.

About the only existing space i can think of that would do that, is the main central areas. Rip out the stores and the second floor, and then you have a good amount of space. But honestly, you'd get a better product constructing a big metal box in the parking lot somewhere. At least the Myriad was already set up for high voltage electrical with the trade show stuff that happened in the meeting spaces. And of course the arena was set up for it. But the mall spaces are definitely no. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but it was built as a mall, and it's just not good for much else.