City cracking down on panhandling

[Patrick]

Hot off the press from downtownguy:

"Back Off Bums!
KOKC Radio reports that the Oklahoma City Council is taking action against the aggressive panhandling that has made for difficult times in other downtowns:

Oklahoma City Council approves a new aggressive panhandling policy. Police Chief Bill Citty says the tougher policy is designed to cut down on those who constantly prey on the pedestrians in Downtown and Bricktown. The new panhandling ordinance prohibits touching, blocking or interfering with traffic, following a person or using abusive language. Citty says if beggers enter into the street then that's a violation of the ordinance.

I'll share more with you on this later ...

- The Downtown Guy
www.downtownguy.blogspot.com "

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Atleast we aren't near as bad as Portland, in fact, panhandling never really was bad here.

[Jay]

I would like to see a no stopping or standing ordinance at intersections. I am think its an eyesore when people beg for money on the street corner even if its for charity.

I know the fire fighters use this tool to raise money for MDA. However this could be replaced. I think the firefighters should pump gas and wash windows at area 7-11's for a donation.

When I was in the Navy we did this all the time at the base gas station to raise money. The only cost is the glass cleaner which I am sure 7-11 would provide for MDA.

[Midtowner]

The guys that you see on street corners are usually part of an organized panhandling group. I've seen them being dropped off and picked up.

I do recall an independant operator over at the Wal-Mart off of I-40 and Macarthur a week or so ago. He had his bike chained to a sign in the median. It was probably a $400 mountain bike.

[Patrick]

Why doesn't our city just outlaw panhandling altogether?

It amazes me that our city actually sells permits for panhandling. Seems like that would actually encourage it, as the city would be approving of it by issuing a permit.

[Jay]

The main reason why is civil rights. I read James Couch's report on the panhandling issue. For instance a panhandler has the right to stand anywhere pedistrian traffic is permitted and display a sign. Provided he/she does not obstruct traffic or interfere with other people. The police can ticket and arrest some one for carrying a sign that reads "will work for food" just because it violates the barter law. However if the sign just says "help" or "hungry" there is nothing the police can do.

That is why I support a no stopping or standing law. The law could read a person can only stand at an intersection or on a right of way for a reasonable amount of time (1-3 min) to safely cross the street. This would stand up in court because its a safety issue and it would keep pedestrians clear and safe from vehilce traffic.

[Luke]

oklacity75, I like that idea.

[Midtowner]

So we'll take them off of the streets and put them in jail where they can be fed for free?

I thought you had to create adverse conditions for a punishment to be effective?

[Jay]

This would be considered a traffic offense so a ticket ($20 fine) or verbal warning is all that would be needed.

[Keith]

"That is why I support a no stopping or standing law. The law could read a person can only stand at an intersection or on a right of way for a reasonable amount of time (1-3 min) to safely cross the street. This would stand up in court because its a safety issue and it would keep pedestrians clear and safe from vehilce traffic."

I agree, however, once you pull one of the panhandlers away from the intersection, another one will take his place. Plus, there are many laws that aren't enforced anyway, due to lack of officers, and this would be another one. Yes, panhandlers standing on the street corner say they are "looking for a job," when all they want is a hand out.

I wouldn't put them in jail, because that would be a waste of taxpayers dollars, but will fining them really take care of the problem?

Anybody have any other ideas?

[Midtowner]

"That is why I support a no stopping or standing law. The law could read a person can only stand at an intersection or on a right of way for a reasonable amount of time (1-3 min) to safely cross the street. This would stand up in court because its a safety issue and it would keep pedestrians clear and safe from vehilce traffic."

I agree, however, once you pull one of the panhandlers away from the intersection, another one will take his place. Plus, there are many laws that aren't enforced anyway, due to lack of officers, and this would be another one. Yes, panhandlers standing on the street corner say they are "looking for a job," when all they want is a hand out.

I wouldn't put them in jail, because that would be a waste of taxpayers dollars, but will fining them really take care of the problem?

Anybody have any other ideas?

Fining them? You think they'll pay the fine? (I wouldn't think you did)

Anything where these folks is concerned is pretty much unenforceable. I really like the idea of having lock boxes for donations posted at different sites around the city where panhandlers tend to be. The donations would go to the Jesus House, etc. Someone here said something about another city doing that. I think that'd be a great idea.

[Keith]

Hey, that would be a good idea , as long as they collect the money at the end of each day. Otherwise, we are looking at possible vandalism or burglary to the lock box.

Plus, we all know that the Jesus House is always seeking help monetarily from others. This would give them a big boost. Of course, we would have to put the lock boxes close to the curbs so that motorists would not have to get out of their vehicles to donate. I'm all for anything to help the Jesus House out.

[Midtowner]

Hey, that would be a good idea , as long as they collect the money at the end of each day. Otherwise, we are looking at possible vandalism or burglary to the lock box.

Plus, we all know that the Jesus House is always seeking help monetarily from others. This would give them a big boost. Of course, we would have to put the lock boxes close to the curbs so that motorists would not have to get out of their vehicles to donate. I'm all for anything to help the Jesus House out.

There was some scary talk about them relocating to 13th & Dewey -- right next to a lot of nice offices (mine included) and Heritage Hills some time ago. As long as we can get them to promise to stay exactly where they are, I think we have a winner

[floater]

Fining them? You think they'll pay the fine? (I wouldn't think you did)

Anything where these folks is concerned is pretty much unenforceable. I really like the idea of having lock boxes for donations posted at different sites around the city where panhandlers tend to be. The donations would go to the Jesus House, etc. Someone here said something about another city doing that. I think that'd be a great idea.

Yes, this was a tactic I saw used in Memphis. It takes care of the consciences of the passers by. I'm not sure how often the city cashes out the boxes, but they are secured to the ground.

It's a joke that panhandlers have to file a permit, but I suppose the city has to find some means to control the activity. IMO, the best way to deal with the problem is not to give. Give to the shelters and charities instead.

I think this ordinance hits the mark. It doesn't take away the right to enjoy public spaces/buildings, and it keeps panhandlers from taking anybody's right to enjoy downtown in peace and security.

[Patrick]

It's a joke that panhandlers have to file a permit, but I suppose the city has to find some means to control the activity. IMO, the best way to deal with the problem is not to give. Give to the shelters and charities instead.

If we had donation boxes, people wouldn't feel a need to give to panhandlers....they'd give to the donation box instead. Thus, panhandlers would no longer get the handouts, and they'd leave!

[zuluwarrior0760]

Two hotbeds of panhandling is I240 and Penn and also I35 and SE44th St

If you peer way up under the overpass, you'll see several heads sticking up from
behind the concrete supports......that is where the other panhandlers
wait until it is their "shift".....so they can stay out of the sun....

At around sunset, a van comes, picks them up.....takes their percentage
of the take (it's a unionized territory thing) and then takes the guys back
to their cars so they can go home to their families.......

Most of the panhandlers receive a five dollar bill at least twice an hour
and a one dollar bill at least once every five minutes or so....
so I guess this is an 18.00 an hour job minimum, but it's totally tax
free, making it really a 30.00 an hour job....

Give it to the homeless shelter guys.......otherwise
you could simply be making someone's car payment
rather than them buying booze.......

If you don't give, they WILL LEAVE EVENTUALLY.......
if that hurts your heart, then give the money to me and I'll
give you a set of puppy dog eyez so you can feel good
about yourself.....

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Well, I can see Penn being a major "prosper" zone for panhandlers, given the amount of rich Westmoore people that use that intersection as an integral part of their FAA/Tinker/Downtown commutes.

[windowphobe]

And more often than not, there's someone at NW Expressway at Belle Isle.

I once saw a chap bring his own chair to his preferred begging spot (NE 23rd and I-35); I wonder if it affected the take.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Really believable, eh?

[Patrick]

Panhandlers have hit almost every major intersection in town. I've even seen them around Memorial and Penn lately. Seems like they're getting smarter, as that's one of the city's most heavily traveled intersections.

I suppose Edmond is still free of the problem, as I've never seen any up there. I wonder what their ordinances state about panhandling.