I-235 / I-44 Interchange

[Pete]

The next phase of this project is out for bid:

[therhett17]

Sure wish they'd get rid of those last two cloverleafs

[chssooner]

Sure wish they'd get rid of those last two cloverleafs

Forcing at least 2 large companies to move their HQs is a great look for Oklahoma and OKC, amirite?

[Scott5114]

Forcing at least 2 large companies to move their HQs is a great look for Oklahoma and OKC, amirite?

Most of the large state DOTs don't really give a damn what's on a parcel, if they need it, they take it. Needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few, and all that.

I've seen plenty of photographs of TxDOT tearing down hundreds of very expensive properties for their North Houston I-45 project. Corporate headquarters, schools, apartments, doesn't matter, if it's in the way, it moves. Granted TxDOT has more resources than ODOT does to acquire those properties...but it goes to show you "someone makes money here" does not anoint the property as sacred untouchable land in other states.

[chssooner]

Most of the large state DOTs don't really give a damn what's on a parcel, if they need it, they take it. Needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few, and all that.

I've seen plenty of photographs of TxDOT tearing down hundreds of very expensive properties for their North Houston I-45 project. Corporate headquarters, schools, apartments, doesn't matter, if it's in the way, it moves. Granted TxDOT has more resources than ODOT does to acquire those properties...but it goes to show you "someone makes money here" does not anoint the property as sacred untouchable land in other states.

And look at how OTA is being lambasted. I think DOT knew there would be a fight over that building, and decided discretion is the better part of valor.

Could be wrong, and maybe they were lazy, or the budget was too tight. Who knows.

[Rover]

Forcing at least 2 large companies to move their HQs is a great look for Oklahoma and OKC, amirite?

Sorry, which two large companies?

[chssooner]

Sorry, which two large companies?

FSB and Kirkpatrick Bank. In the Paragon Building.

[Rover]

FSB and Kirkpatrick Bank. In the Paragon Building.

These aren’t big companies. They may not be insignificant, but they aren’t even the building owners. And it isn’t even Kirkpatrick Bank’s main bank.

[mugofbeer]

Bigger and better need.

[MagzOK]

Actually, I've taken those clover leafs more often than I ever thought I would and they function quite well. The way they have the SB mainline moved over and the entrance/exit ramps in their own lanes of traffic makes the clover leafs work really well. Granted I think it'd be more fun to have flyovers, but really they are functional.

[HangryHippo]

I hate cloverleafs almost as much as PluPan, but I agree with you. Separating them made a huge difference.

[SEMIweather]

The worst part of this interchange is that when taking the flyover from NB 235 to WB 44, there is still a very short distance to merge. What is the point of removing the cloverleaf and adding the flyover if you are still going to give drivers the same inadequate amount of time to merge. I will never understand some of the decisions ODOT makes with these projects.

[HOT ROD]

the next flyover that's needed is EB I-44 to SB I-235 Downtown. This would have been a no-brainer in any other state as you're offering a real bypass for I-35/I-44 traffic direct to I-35S at the Crossroads of America junction and a real direct to Downtown. It's ok as a cloverleaf but not really a modern connection that we'll likely need to fund in 10-years anyway.

Another missed opportunity is connecting Santa Fe, not sure why this was dropped but really would have made sense, esp with the growth of the east side of I-235/Broadway Extension, would have been a direct connection to the rest of the central city without having to get on the freeway itself.

If you're going to do something, do it right the first time. That's my advise to ODOT and OKC-Transportation.

[therhett17]

the next flyover that's needed is EB I-44 to SB I-235 Downtown. This would have been a no-brainer in any other state as you're offering a real bypass for I-35/I-44 traffic direct to I-35S at the Crossroads of America junction and a real direct to Downtown. It's ok as a cloverleaf but not really a modern connection that we'll likely need to fund in 10-years anyway.

Another missed opportunity is connecting Santa Fe, not sure why this was dropped but really would have made sense, esp with the growth of the east side of I-235/Broadway Extension, would have been a direct connection to the rest of the central city without having to get on the freeway itself.

If you're going to do something, do it right the first time. That's my advise to ODOT and OKC-Transportation.

That seems to be a consistent theme with ODOT, they lack forethought and move as a snail's pace.

[jn1780]

That seems to be a consistent theme with ODOT, they lack forethought and move as a snail's pace.

It all comes down to funding. They can plan to build 10 lanes everywhere and stacked interchanges, but literally nothing would get done due to lack of funding. So they have to settle for smaller less ambitions projects that are divided up into 5 smaller sub projects.

[rte66man]

the next flyover that's needed is EB I-44 to SB I-235 Downtown.

Did you mean WB 44? The ramp from EB 44 to SB 235 was the second ramp built.

[HOT ROD]

yes, ty

[BDP]

The next phase of this project is out for bid:

Is there still no plan to connect Santa Fe?

This map shows it connecting 50th and 63rd, but not as part of the projects that are out for bid (if I'm reading it correctly).

I'm no civil engineer, but it seems if the goal is to alleviate traffic in the interchange, Santa Fe could be a good way to get some local traffic out of it. As it is now, if you're going north / south from 50th to 63rd on Santa Fe, or going to / from the north end of Lincoln, the options are to use the interchange or go 2-3 miles out of the way on Kelly or Western, which routes you through several more intersections. I'm sure most of that traffic ends up going through the interchange.

[BoulderSooner]

Is there still no plan to connect Santa Fe?

This map shows it connecting 50th and 63rd, but not as part of the projects that are out for bid (if I'm reading it correctly).

I'm no civil engineer, but it seems if the goal is to alleviate traffic in the interchange, Santa Fe could be a good way to get some local traffic out of it. As it is now, if you're going north / south from 50th to 63rd on Santa Fe, or going to / from the north end of Lincoln, the options are to use the interchange or go 2-3 miles out of the way on Kelly or Western, which routes you through several more intersections. I'm sure most of that traffic ends up going through the interchange.

nope the sante fe bridge was cut from this project a long time ago

[BDP]

nope the sante fe bridge was cut from this project a long time ago

And I guess this shows them extending the north end of it south and moving the south end of that east. And then connecting it to the service road?

ODOT really doesn't consider local traffic much.

[MagzOK]

ODOT really doesn't consider local traffic much.

Actually, the city has representatives that sit in on this stuff that ODOT does when projects are in city limits. How those meetings go, however, I can't tell you. There have been contracts in the past were localities will chip in some for some extra stuff. I'm sure Santa Fe was viewed by ODOT as an OKC arterial and didn't want to incur the cost since it's not an ODOT part, but they would work something out with the city if they really wanted it to be part of the contract.

[SEMIweather]

I’m just not sure there’s enough thru traffic on Santa Fe to justify the 50th/63rd connection. I work for one of the companies in the large industrial area bounded by 23rd, Lincoln, I-235, and I-44 so I’m using these roads all the time and they’re never particularly busy.

[BDP]

I'm sure Santa Fe was viewed by ODOT as an OKC arterial and didn't want to incur the cost since it's not an ODOT part, but they would work something out with the city if they really wanted it to be part of the contract.

That makes sense. And I imagine it would be a pretty big project for OKC to do on it's own. I mean, we got a lot of potholes to fill.

[BDP]

I’m just not sure there’s enough thru traffic on Santa Fe to justify the 50th/63rd connection. I work for one of the companies in the large industrial area bounded by 23rd, Lincoln, I-235, and I-44 so I’m using these roads all the time and they’re never particularly busy.

I just kind of assume that's because it doesn't really go anywhere. That stretch is just 23rd to 50th. Cutting it off at 50th for I-44 probably made it what it is today. Making the connection would probably increase the traffic, but I imagine your company and those around it like it as is for that very reason. So, there's probably not much push to connect it, anyway.

[Dob Hooligan]

I’m just not sure there’s enough thru traffic on Santa Fe to justify the 50th/63rd connection. I work for one of the companies in the large industrial area bounded by 23rd, Lincoln, I-235, and I-44 so I’m using these roads all the time and they’re never particularly busy.

About the only time I go down that stretch of road is when I go to Bob Howard PDC at 36th & Santa Fe. And Santa Fe in that area is 2 lane black top with no curbs and bar ditches on either side. That tells me there is a lot of money that has to be spent after the multi-million dollar bridge would be built. And the businesses south of 50th are geared to heavy truck traffic in such a manner that 4 lanes and commuter cars are a negative.