Crossroads Mall

[stlokc]

But to answer your question, HFAA, I think Laramie is right. If a stadium is to be built, go ahead and build it to MLS specs, around 18K-22K. And my preferred location would be the inner Southside, somewhere between Scissortail park and old Capitol Hill, or in the Farmers Market area. The Southside needs some love, but tie it into the real civic infrastructure that we’ve spent so much on already rather than a parking lot at a highway junction. Stadiums surrounded by acres of parking don’t do that much for a city’s renewal and advancement.

[HOT ROD]

the BELOW is what I was trying to say.

I realize we are getting off the track of the Crossroads Mall thread, but I am following this discussion with interest, as St. Louis (where I live) is in the process of debuting their new MLS stadium this winter towards the team's inaugural MLS season starting this spring.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/stadium/

I am a little worried about the prospect of all this for OKC, to be honest. OKC may have a thriving Latino community but the OKC of my memory did not have a particularly strong soccer culture. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I kind of feel like the city is getting too big population-wise to be proposing and designing stadiums for minor league aspirations. If MLS is the goal, design the stadium for that from the beginning. Kind of like the experience with the Thunder.

[HOT ROD]

I believe the COOP lands is where the NFL stadium should go. A Buc-ees and HEB would go nicely at Crossroads however.

Crossroads should be reserved for a large Buc-ee’s and an NFL stadium, imo.

Need to be thinking much bigger than MLS.

[HOT ROD]

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

[Laramie]

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

You're correct Hot Rod.

NHL in Tulsa 2030--MSA projection 1.12 million much like St. Paul, MN has NHL and Minneapolis has NBA, NFL, MLB and University of Minnesota (Minneapolis) has NCAA Division I.

MLS in OKC 2030--MSA projection 1.65 million.
Next MAPS 4 extension should focus on Paycom Center replacement April 1, 2028: $70 million with interest on pause. New I-240/I-35 Interchange should look like I-35/I-235 Broadway OKC-Edmond Interchange.

New $500 million arena on Prairie Surf Media 4-square block site. September 2027MAPS 4 extension vote--new arena opens 2029.

City could begin a study on NFL feasibility after 2030.

.

[borchard]

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

IMHO we're not getting MLS either. Too many larger, more affluent, NLF-owner-based cities would get in before us. But a 20k stadium could be used for:
- soccer (USL, US Women's National team friendly, HS state tournament)
- rugby
- football ( local small college like OBU v SNU, or even go after the FCS Championship that is now played in Frisco at FC Dallas stadium, state tournament games, XFL, USFL, etc...)
- concerts

[bombermwc]

IMHO we're not getting MLS either. Too many larger, more affluent, NLF-owner-based cities would get in before us. But a 20k stadium could be used for:
- soccer (USL, US Women's National team friendly, HS state tournament)
- rugby
- football ( local small college like OBU v SNU, or even go after the FCS Championship that is now played in Frisco at FC Dallas stadium, state tournament games, XFL, USFL, etc...)
- concerts

cough cough....Marching Band contests and DCI events

[Dob Hooligan]

MLS is already committed to either 36 or 40 cities. There is no way OKC is getting a team for, at least 15 years, IMO.

[citywokchinesefood]

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

[Dob Hooligan]

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

Add to that, in the NFL the Denver Broncos sold this year for $5 billion, and the Washington Commanders (formerly Redskins) are beginning discussions of a team sale in 2023. Their initial asking price is $7 billion.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City and Tulsa

Combined, Oklahoma City-Tulsa has a MSA population of 2,443,683 = OKC 1,425,695 + TUL 1,023,988 -
with a combined TV DMS viewership of 1,253,370 -- 41. Oklahoma City (722,140) & 58. Tulsa (531,230).

DMA source:

Oklahoma City: https://www.mediamarketmap.com/oklah...ket-media-map/
Tulsa: https://www.mediamarketmap.com/tulsa...ket-media-map/

.

[BoulderSooner]

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

the only way OKC would get the NFL is the same way OKC got the NBA (okc was never getting an expansion franchise) a local Billionaire buys a team and moves it here .. and if that happened the City / county/ state would 100% help build a stadium ..

[baralheia]

I know everyone wants any stadium to be "downtown", or as close as possible. But wouldn't the Fairgrounds be a good place for it? HUGE mounts of parking. HUGE amounts of unused space. Maybe one reason I think this is because it seems all we've been doing is taking things OUT of the Fairgrounds. SO much so, that it just seems like a big parking lot now.

Agreed. Put it in the southwest corner of the Fairgrounds, right up against I-44 between Reno and the railroad so it's highly visible. There's plenty of undeveloped land there for the stadium plus new paved parking, and those parking lots could also be used for the fair and other events. The southern part of Delmar Gardens Ave might need to be rerouted or closed to make this work, but it seems like a win-win to locate this stadium there.

[April in the Plaza]

the only way OKC would get the NFL is the same way OKC got the NBA (okc was never getting an expansion franchise) a local Billionaire buys a team and moves it here .. and if that happened the City / county/ state would 100% help build a stadium ..

Would also add that raw seating numbers, like in basketball, don’t mean as much as they did several years ago. No one would expect OKC to build a 75,000 seat football stadium

[unfundedrick]

What is this thread about again?

[HOT ROD]

the only way OKC would get the NFL is the same way OKC got the NBA (okc was never getting an expansion franchise) a local Billionaire buys a team and moves it here .. and if that happened the City / county/ state would 100% help build a stadium ..

which is what I said, but apparently I'm sniffing glue. ...

[Laramie]

NFL is a moving target. Sure we are similar to Jacksonville in a few demographics.

We would need four crucial things to support NFL:

1. Ownership,
2. Corporate base
3. Market support (Population/TV viewership),
4. Stadium

A feasibility study would quickly show that OKC doesn't meet any of that criteria to support NFL (Would love to have an NFL team).

We need to solidify the NBA in OKC. A new NBA spec arena is our next objective, IMO we will achieve that goal.

[BoulderSooner]

NFL is a moving target. Sure we are similar to Jacksonville in a few demographics.

We would need four crucial things to support NFL:

1. Ownership,
2. Corporate base
3. Market support (Population/TV viewership),
4. Stadium

A feasibility study would quickly show that OKC doesn't meet any of that criteria to support NFL (Would love to have an NFL team).

We need to solidify the NBA in OKC. A new NBA spec arena is our next objective, IMO we will achieve that goal.

the NFL works in just about any city in the United States .. it would work in OKC .. currently it also wont happen

[Swake]

What is this thread about again?

To be fair, the NFL is far more interesting than a dead empty mall.

[unfundedrick]

To be fair, the NFL is far more interesting than a dead empty mall.

True, but that should be covered in another thread where people would actually know what they might be reading about before looking at it.0

[Laramie]

My observation of Crossroads Mall's demise was attributed to a lot of things from the high profile of gangs, they chose to use the mall
as their stage--started the death spiral. Crime and theft left its decay on this once vibrant mall.

The Mall needed renovations and new shops, tenants disappeared one after another. Then, the larger anchor tenants slowly disappeared.

Such a sad ending for Crossroads Mall.

[citywokchinesefood]

which is what I said, but apparently I'm sniffing glue. ...

Glue or paint, I am not an expert on the difference.

[HOT ROD]

could have fooled me.

[Jesseda]

Looks like crossroads mall is having issues , now the football team isn't going there and multiple tenants are demanding refunds and saying they got scammed and the mall is not opening anytime soon etc. The crossroads convention Facebook page is now bashing the football league and also if your type crossroads convention on Facebook you will see tenants complaining about the management and saying how there is a criminal history behind the management and demanding refunds. So it looks like the mall is done before it even opened

[jn1780]

Yeah, apparently they were doing business with the fake wranglers. A Chinese owner will probably pull the plug now.

The whole deal sounds fishy. The 'property manager' has an ambiguously defined business relationship with the owner. Sounds like an episode of joe exotic.