Crossroads Mall

[Laramie]

The Crossroads Parking lot would a good fit for the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium which will be designed to hold a regulation pitch soccer stadium. You could build the stadium on those grounds and have paved parking already in place.

The stadium itself as a co-center piece could help with the revitalization of Crossroads Mall, especially when you're talking
about the mall opening a nice size Chinese restaurant. There are theaters on the grounds as well which if not operable, could be given new life. It has been a long time since I've been in the area, just not up to date with the area's development.

[The Devils Architect]

The Crossroads Parking lot would a good fit for the MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium which will be designed to hold a regulation pitch soccer stadium. You could build the stadium on those grounds and have paved parking already in place.

The stadium itself as a co-center piece could help with the revitalization of Crossroads Mall, especially when you're talking
about the mall opening a nice size Chinese restaurant. There are theaters on the grounds as well which if not operable, could be given new life. It has been a long time since I've been in the area, just not up to date with the area's development.

Following you from BigSoccer - this is an absymal location for the MAPS4 Stadium.

The interchange is going to be a 5-10 year project with associated traffic headache and just because a sea of asphalt exists, doesn't mean we should use it.

A similar development proposal was floated to repurpose Pontiac Stadium for an MLS Expansion club and convention hall / performance venue and this isn't any better or well thought out.

[Laramie]

Following you from BigSoccer - this is an absymal location for the MAPS4 Stadium.

The interchange is going to be a 5-10 year project with associated traffic headache and just because a sea of asphalt exists, doesn't mean we should use it.

A similar development proposal was floated to repurpose Pontiac Stadium for an MLS Expansion club and convention hall / performance venue and this isn't any better or well thought out.

Good point, totally forgot about the upcoming interchange project. IIRC Farmers Market--West of Classen and just north of I-40, Wheeler Park and Producers Coop--Just south of Bricktown are the last locations the city listed as potential locations.

The Producers Coop site is attempting to get $3 million per acre. IMO it would be an idea location. City budgeted $41 million for the stadium, so you can eliminate the Producers Coop site.

[borchard]

Good point, totally forgot about the upcoming interchange project. IIRC Farmers Market--West of Classen and just north of I-40, Wheeler Park and Producers Coop--Just south of Bricktown are the last locations the city listed as potential locations.

The Producers Coop site is attempting to get $3 million per acre. IMO it would be an idea location. City budgeted $41 million for the stadium, so you can eliminate the Producers Coop site.

I know everyone wants any stadium to be "downtown", or as close as possible. But wouldn't the Fairgrounds be a good place for it? HUGE mounts of parking. HUGE amounts of unused space. Maybe one reason I think this is because it seems all we've been doing is taking things OUT of the Fairgrounds. SO much so, that it just seems like a big parking lot now.

[Laramie]

I know everyone wants any stadium to be "downtown", or as close as possible. But wouldn't the Fairgrounds be a good place for it? HUGE mounts of parking. HUGE amounts of unused space. Maybe one reason I think this is because it seems all we've been doing is taking things OUT of the Fairgrounds. SO much so, that it just seems like a big parking lot now.

The stadium is on a $41 million budget (an increase of $4 million from $37 million). Wherever you construct the stadium, parking will be a monumental concern.

Three sites high on City's list: https://kfor.com/news/local/city-lea...rpose-stadium/

Farmers Market- West of Classen and just north of I-40
Wheeler Park- Currently owned by the city
Producers Coop- Just south of Bricktown.

Funk Jr., selected option one.

Planned MAPS 4 Stadium will be one level with 8,000 chairback seats capable of expansion to 18,000 or more seats.

Fairgrounds (City owned land) where we are building the MAPS 4 Coliseum could include the stadium since there's plenty
of parking and less expensive extensions to infrastructure connections available. Fairgrounds IMO should not be ruled out.

.

[HOT ROD]

love the option but disappointed it will only be 8000 seats (for $41m??) and also disappointed expansion only adds 10,000. Aren't we seeking MLS guys? Should minimum start at about 12,000 seats expandable to 30,000.

I also disagree with you Larry on the fairgrounds as an option. Sorry, they blew it (up, literally) with what once was there. Also, I think it is very important that we locate the stadium as close as possible to the traditional latin community; if it can't be on the Southside then it needs to be as close as possible. The choices the city has are perfect; with Farmers Market as my preference given its location and that such a venue would help anchor the flegling district into something very special. Crossroads, combining wht the AFL or whatever football league is going there, could really be an option checking all boxes (including your idea for existing parking).

I'm torn between Farmers Market and Crossroads but would give the edge to Farmers since it would really help there much better; and a new/different stadium (temp to start) at Crossroads.

[BoulderSooner]

love the option but disappointed it will only be 8000 seats (for $41m??) and also disappointed expansion only adds 10,000. Aren't we seeking MLS guys? Should minimum start at about 12,000 seats expandable to 30,000.

I also disagree with you Larry on the fairgrounds as an option. Sorry, they blew it (up, literally) with what once was there. Also, I think it is very important that we locate the stadium as close as possible to the traditional latin community; if it can't be on the Southside then it needs to be as close as possible. The choices the city has are perfect; with Farmers Market as my preference given its location and that such a venue would help anchor the flegling district into something very special. Crossroads, combining wht the AFL or whatever football league is going there, could really be an option checking all boxes (including your idea for existing parking).

I'm torn between Farmers Market and Crossroads but would give the edge to Farmers since it would really help there much better; and a new/different stadium (temp to start) at Crossroads.

17 of the MLS stadiums seat 22k or under

12 under 21k

[Laramie]

love the option but disappointed it will only be 8000 seats (for $41m??) and also disappointed expansion only adds 10,000. Aren't we seeking MLS guys? Should minimum start at about 12,000 seats expandable to 30,000.

I also disagree with you Larry on the fairgrounds as an option. Sorry, they blew it (up, literally) with what once was there. Also, I think it is very important that we locate the stadium as close as possible to the traditional latin community; if it can't be on the Southside then it needs to be as close as possible. The choices the city has are perfect; with Farmers Market as my preference given its location and that such a venue would help anchor the flegling district into something very special. Crossroads, combining wht the AFL or whatever football league is going there, could really be an option checking all boxes (including your idea for existing parking).

I'm torn between Farmers Market and Crossroads but would give the edge to Farmers since it would really help there much better; and a new/different stadium (temp to start) at Crossroads.

There is a traditional Latino Community in the Capitol Hill area, my parish at Little Flower Catholic Church is in walking distance of the Latino Community Development Agency; however there are pockets of areas where you have apartment complexes spread throughout OKC where there is a good number of the Latino Community residing.

Oklahoma City is very diverse, so just my opinion, it won't matter where you put the stadium--so long as it is built to the specifications with room for expansion.

[stlokc]

I realize we are getting off the track of the Crossroads Mall thread, but I am following this discussion with interest, as St. Louis (where I live) is in the process of debuting their new MLS stadium this winter towards the team's inaugural MLS season starting this spring.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/stadium/

I am a little worried about the prospect of all this for OKC, to be honest. OKC may have a thriving Latino community but the OKC of my memory did not have a particularly strong soccer culture. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I kind of feel like the city is getting too big population-wise to be proposing and designing stadiums for minor league aspirations. If MLS is the goal, design the stadium for that from the beginning. Kind of like the experience with the Thunder.

[Laramie]

I realize we are getting off the track of the Crossroads Mall thread, but I am following this discussion with interest, as St. Louis (where I live) is in the process of debuting their new MLS stadium this winter towards the team's inaugural MLS season starting this spring.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/stadium/

I am a little worried about the prospect of all this for OKC, to be honest. OKC may have a thriving Latino community but the OKC of my memory did not have a particularly strong soccer culture. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I kind of feel like the city is getting too big population-wise to be proposing and designing stadiums for minor league aspirations. If MLS is the goal, design the stadium for that from the beginning. Kind of like the experience with the Thunder.

Agree 100%

The design above has two twin multilevels across from the length of the field. Could seat anywhere from 18,000 - 22,000.

You're right stlokc, go ahead and build the basic chairbacks seat stadium. Leave some of the suites unfinished until needed (When you obtain an MLS franchise).

Use the ground level seats for USL or games that demand more seats.

[April in the Plaza]

Crossroads should be reserved for a large Buc-ee’s and an NFL stadium, imo.

Need to be thinking much bigger than MLS.

[HFAA Alum]

How big do you think? Possibly a bowl game for Division 1 football or NFL, or a more conservative estimate of 24k?

[stlokc]

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

[stlokc]

But to answer your question, HFAA, I think Laramie is right. If a stadium is to be built, go ahead and build it to MLS specs, around 18K-22K. And my preferred location would be the inner Southside, somewhere between Scissortail park and old Capitol Hill, or in the Farmers Market area. The Southside needs some love, but tie it into the real civic infrastructure that we’ve spent so much on already rather than a parking lot at a highway junction. Stadiums surrounded by acres of parking don’t do that much for a city’s renewal and advancement.

[HOT ROD]

the BELOW is what I was trying to say.

I realize we are getting off the track of the Crossroads Mall thread, but I am following this discussion with interest, as St. Louis (where I live) is in the process of debuting their new MLS stadium this winter towards the team's inaugural MLS season starting this spring.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/stadium/

I am a little worried about the prospect of all this for OKC, to be honest. OKC may have a thriving Latino community but the OKC of my memory did not have a particularly strong soccer culture. Maybe that has changed. Regardless, I kind of feel like the city is getting too big population-wise to be proposing and designing stadiums for minor league aspirations. If MLS is the goal, design the stadium for that from the beginning. Kind of like the experience with the Thunder.

[HOT ROD]

I believe the COOP lands is where the NFL stadium should go. A Buc-ees and HEB would go nicely at Crossroads however.

Crossroads should be reserved for a large Buc-ee’s and an NFL stadium, imo.

Need to be thinking much bigger than MLS.

[HOT ROD]

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

[Laramie]

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

You're correct Hot Rod.

NHL in Tulsa 2030--MSA projection 1.12 million much like St. Paul, MN has NHL and Minneapolis has NBA, NFL, MLB and University of Minnesota (Minneapolis) has NCAA Division I.

MLS in OKC 2030--MSA projection 1.65 million.
Next MAPS 4 extension should focus on Paycom Center replacement April 1, 2028: $70 million with interest on pause. New I-240/I-35 Interchange should look like I-35/I-235 Broadway OKC-Edmond Interchange.

New $500 million arena on Prairie Surf Media 4-square block site. September 2027MAPS 4 extension vote--new arena opens 2029.

City could begin a study on NFL feasibility after 2030.

.

[borchard]

Oklahoma City is not getting an NFL team; not with the enduring power of college football and two D1 teams with passionate fan bases within an hour’s drive. There isn’t enough local football money to make OU, OSU, and the NFL all work. Not until the metro area doubles in size, at least.

IMHO we're not getting MLS either. Too many larger, more affluent, NLF-owner-based cities would get in before us. But a 20k stadium could be used for:
- soccer (USL, US Women's National team friendly, HS state tournament)
- rugby
- football ( local small college like OBU v SNU, or even go after the FCS Championship that is now played in Frisco at FC Dallas stadium, state tournament games, XFL, USFL, etc...)
- concerts

[bombermwc]

IMHO we're not getting MLS either. Too many larger, more affluent, NLF-owner-based cities would get in before us. But a 20k stadium could be used for:
- soccer (USL, US Women's National team friendly, HS state tournament)
- rugby
- football ( local small college like OBU v SNU, or even go after the FCS Championship that is now played in Frisco at FC Dallas stadium, state tournament games, XFL, USFL, etc...)
- concerts

cough cough....Marching Band contests and DCI events

[Dob Hooligan]

MLS is already committed to either 36 or 40 cities. There is no way OKC is getting a team for, at least 15 years, IMO.

[citywokchinesefood]

Now this is where I disagree with you a little bit. NFL is definitely the next major league for OKC, aside from MLS being the very next. NFL is only 8 home games plus a few more if you make the playoffs highly seeded. The games are on Sundays most of the time and like the Thunder the NFL can draw from both collegiate fanbases. Finally, NFL wouldn't directly compete with the NBA/OKC Thunder or the MLS; whereas the other leagues (NHL) would or have too many games (MLB).

The way to make NFL work is 1) the stadium and 2) the same ownership group as the OKC Thunder. I know there are cities ahead of OKC on the NFL pecking order but I suspect there may be some relocations to fill those spots, so OKC could be ready to go once the green light is lit, the ownership group is formed/interested, and the city decides to build on the COOP lands. I think once we hit 2 million metro it will be perfect for 2.5 major league teams, MLS (the .5) should be the next focus though for the city. Tulsa should go after the NHL and just be THE hockey city for the state.

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

[Dob Hooligan]

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

Add to that, in the NFL the Denver Broncos sold this year for $5 billion, and the Washington Commanders (formerly Redskins) are beginning discussions of a team sale in 2023. Their initial asking price is $7 billion.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City and Tulsa

Combined, Oklahoma City-Tulsa has a MSA population of 2,443,683 = OKC 1,425,695 + TUL 1,023,988 -
with a combined TV DMS viewership of 1,253,370 -- 41. Oklahoma City (722,140) & 58. Tulsa (531,230).

DMA source:

Oklahoma City: https://www.mediamarketmap.com/oklah...ket-media-map/
Tulsa: https://www.mediamarketmap.com/tulsa...ket-media-map/

.

[BoulderSooner]

Are you sniffing glue? OKC is not going to become an NFL city in the next 50 years. A Modern NFL stadium is going to cost 1.5+ billion dollars, the city isn't coming up with that, and no local investment group is going to pony up either. While I agree that Oklahoman's love football and would certainly fill up a stadium. I don't believe that OKC has the corporate base, investor group, or national draw for the NFL. Even when the Thunder have been great, they get shafted by the league on national games. The Knicks and Lakers could be a dumpster fire and they will still get 15+ national tv games. The NBA as a league doesn't value OKC as much as the larger markets because we do not pull in as much revenue for the league. The NFL will have the exact same considerations monetarily and will certainly go with the largest media markets available for any teams that are moved or any expansion that would take place. I would love to see professional sport expand in OKC, however it will take a billionaire/ownership group with billions that is bound and determined to have a second pro sports team here by any means necessary.

the only way OKC would get the NFL is the same way OKC got the NBA (okc was never getting an expansion franchise) a local Billionaire buys a team and moves it here .. and if that happened the City / county/ state would 100% help build a stadium ..