Electric Vehicles

[Plutonic Panda]

Uglier than the MINI, but I'm biased. Range is longer and charging is faster than the MINI, though, so....

I’m considering that or the Mini but I’m waiting to see if the Abarth EV even comes to America.

[Pete]

Great article by Motor Trend:

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

[TheTravellers]

Great article by Motor Trend:

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

Very good at debunking all the crap out there. There are pretty much no vehicles that are completely "clean" (although solar powered ones might come closest ), but EVs are the best environmental option out there right now.

[Anonymous.]

That article is pretty solid about the main talking points. But I am curious about the environmental impacts of waste in regards to recyclability of both. Like has been mentioned in this thread multiple times, what about the manufacturing process to dispose of and create replacement batteries?

[fortpatches]

Doesnt quite answer your question, but this was a pretty interesting read:
Electric Car Batteries Lasting Longer Than Predicted Delays Recycling Programs (forbes.com)

[TheTravellers]

Doesnt quite answer your question, but this was a pretty interesting read:
Electric Car Batteries Lasting Longer Than Predicted Delays Recycling Programs (forbes.com)

A good read, and true - my MINI's battery is expected to last 20+ years, not sure what usable capacity it will have by then, but probably the 60-70% the article mentions.

[fortpatches]

We have a 2012 Lexis CT200h (this is a hybrid, not a fully electric vehicle, although it does have an EV mode you can turn on for city driving) and I just did a battery tester / estimator not too long ago. The battery came back at about 74% IIRC. So that is about 11-12yrs after manufacturing and over 100k miles.

I have a cousin that buys a new Prius every 5 years (100-130k miles) and passes the old one along to the next oldest kid. So she has gone through at least three Priuses in the past 15 years, and neither she nor her kids have had any issue with any of the batteries even on the one that has around 230k miles the last time I asked about it a couple years ago. Again, these are Hybrids, not the EV models, and the battery tech is somewhat different, but battery cycles would likely be higher on a Hybrid than an EV.

[April in the Plaza]

Great article by Motor Trend:

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars
Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

Just a lot of limitations at this point, still. And they won’t be solved any time soon.

[jedicurt]

Just a lot of limitations at this point, still. And they won’t be solved any time soon.

which limitations specifically are you referring to?

[Jersey Boss]

Winter is coming: The 'best country in the world' is planning to ban electric cars amid the energy crisis. Is it time to revisit oil stocks? Here are 3 bi⁷g plays
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/winte...230000360.html

[jn1780]

Winter is coming: The 'best country in the world' is planning to ban electric cars amid the energy crisis. Is it time to revisit oil stocks? Here are 3 bi⁷g plays
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/winte...230000360.html

That's not really a fair headline to electric vehicles, they are targeting everything that consumes energy. A better headline would be "Switzerland discovers it is still highly dependent on Russian oil and gas".

[Jersey Boss]

That's not really a fair headline to electric vehicles, they are targeting everything that consumes energy. A better headline would be "Switzerland discovers it is still highly dependent on Russian oil and gas".

It sounds like you have some familiarity with Swiss energy/electricity. How dependant is Switzerland on Russian gas and oil? I don't believe they are a NATO or EU member so what stops them from purchasing Russian energy?

[jn1780]

It sounds like you have some familiarity with Swiss energy/electricity. How dependant is Switzerland on Russian gas and oil? I don't believe they are a NATO or EU member so what stops them from purchasing Russian energy?

All I know is that they get their gas from hubs in Europe and there is a good amount of energy from Nuclear power imported from France. As much as they claim to be neutral, at the end of the day its in their best interest to be on good terms with the European Union.

[Bill Robertson]

It sounds like you have some familiarity with Swiss energy/electricity. How dependant is Switzerland on Russian gas and oil? I don't believe they are a NATO or EU member so what stops them from purchasing Russian energy?

Most of Europe depends on Russian oil/gas. It's been all over the news for the last many months that all of Europe, NATO or not, have combined to not purchase Russian oil/gas.

[Jersey Boss]

Most of Europe depends on Russian oil/gas. It's been all over the news for the last many months that all of Europe, NATO or not, have combined to not purchase Russian oil/gas.

I don't think you are accurate witb your info. The link says otherwise. EU is still buying it, let alone all of Europe.
The EU has been trying to cut back on Russian oil, but it's still buying more of it than anyone else
https://markets.businessinsider.com/...-fuels-2022-10

[Bill Robertson]

I don't think you are accurate witb your info. The link says otherwise. EU is still buying it, let alone all of Europe.
The EU has been trying to cut back on Russian oil, but it's still buying more of it than anyone else
https://markets.businessinsider.com/...-fuels-2022-10

They've been cutting back and most of Europe has plans to cut off completely by the end of the year. There are pieces almost daily on NPR about it.
And here's a CNN story from May:
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing...9pbmRleC5odG1s

[chssooner]

Things in Europe are about to get hella expensive. Having to get oil from elsewhere, increasing fuel and other transport costs, including figuring out where the difference will come from.

[Pete]

Some EV manufacturers are starting to employ a sales model where you buy or lease the car, then pay a monthly lease for the battery pack.

I can see this becoming popular as then you never have to worry about batteries degrading or needing to be replaced. The lease of the pack would cover all that.

I'm sure there will be extended warranty offers by third parties as well.


It's safe to say that buying and owning a car is going to look quite different than in the ICE era.

[Soonerinfiniti]

I believe VinFast (Vietnam) is proposing the rent the battery model. I found this article interesting:

https://jalopnik.com/vinfast-vf8-ele...u-s-1849892217

For all the crap that Elon Musk pulls, you can't deny that he has built a legit car company. Where you can buy a car today and charge it all over America. I continue to read article after article about charging problems at Electrify America, etc.

Hard to believe that the Tesla Model S was sold in 2012. Ten years on, it sure feels like buying an EV is an early adopter situation. Especially for someone who needs more than 5 seats for travel.....

[Pete]

^

It underscores what I've been saying for a while: car builders are moving from the heaviest of heavy industries with huge barriers to entry, to more of a tech model where startups and new Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean makers may be the dominant players.

The battery packs will continue to be developed by 3rd parties that newish tech companies can then include in their product. There is going to be tons more emphasis on software than anything else, especially as things move to autonomous driving. And it's just a matter of time before the antiquated dealership network is scrapped or at least largely bypassed.

The result is going to be far more competition in the auto market, which is going to be great for consumers. It's probably going to end up being like electronics in that sense.


It's by far the biggest revolution in automobiles since the Model T. Everything before seems like incremental change by comparison.

[catch22]

Really a huge thing would be a regulation to standardize publicly available chargers. We have standard size nozzles for diesel and gas pumps. Imagine if you could only fill up a Chevy at a Chevy pump and not a Ford pump, etc.

I’m not huge on adding regulations needlessly but this is an area where the public stands a huge benefit, and if the car companies aren’t going to settle on a standard charging setup then the government will need to intervene at some point IMHO.

This would also probably help kick in to gear some charging stations at regular gas stations. If they can invest in a few chargers that will work across the spectrum they may be more likely to, (instead of just sticking with one brand or type) especially the OnCue, QT, etc type gas stations that have sit down food available. They may be more likely to install chargers because then you will go inside to eat while “filling up”.

[TheTravellers]

Really a huge thing would be a regulation to standardize publicly available chargers. We have standard size nozzles for diesel and gas pumps. Imagine if you could only fill up a Chevy at a Chevy pump and not a Ford pump, etc.

I’m not huge on adding regulations needlessly but this is an area where the public stands a huge benefit, and if the car companies aren’t going to settle on a standard charging setup then the government will need to intervene at some point IMHO.

Personally, I got screwed by this last week - Francis Energy chargers worked fine on the way down to Dallas and back after I got their app. Then they changed their app/platform and I got errors from 5 different chargers at the McDonald's on the Turner Turnpike. Couldn't charge, tech couldn't tell me what was going on, had to use a level 1 charger for 3 hours at a Hampton Inn to get enough charge to get back home. They said it was a payment processing problem when I emailed them (it wasn't). Turns out that if I had deleted the payment method and created a new one, it would've worked (I tested that and it did work).

As you said, charging should be like fueling up - all you should need is a charger, an EV, and a credit/debit card.

[Bill Robertson]

Lots of valuable information here. A few years ago I wouldn't have considered getting an EV. The house is paid off in January. Now the more I learn about EVs we might look at one without a mortgage payment.

[Soonerinfiniti]

The press can tout EV's all they want, but driving around OKC, all I see is new convenience store with (gas) fuel sales....

As much as I would love to have one, I haven't heard of anybody that uses it for their primary car, with a family larger than 4 people....

BTW, Tesla is allowing non-Tesla's to charge in Europe and will do so soon in the US. They will have an adaptor for the charger. With their tremendous advantage with their supercharger network, I don't know why they aren't the default.

[TheTravellers]

The press can tout EV's all they want, but driving around OKC, all I see is new convenience store with (gas) fuel sales....

As much as I would love to have one, I haven't heard of anybody that uses it for their primary car, with a family larger than 4 people....

BTW, Tesla is allowing non-Tesla's to charge in Europe and will do so soon in the US. They will have an adaptor for the charger. With their tremendous advantage with their supercharger network, I don't know why they aren't the default.

There are currently 3 charging plug setups in the US - Kia/Nissan, Tesla, and everybody else. Should be one standard, ridiculous the way it is now, but the Tesla news is good.