New State Fair Coliseum

[Dob Hooligan]

Best I can remember the Jim Norick Arena (1964?) is about 10 years older than the Incomparable Myriad (1972?) and 40 years older than the Ford Center (2003?). That puts it about 60 years old in people years. Oughta be about 100 or more in arena years. Like the other Jet Age structures at the Fairgrounds, it is not considered significant in design, efficiency, or construction. Air movement is relatively crude, and seating and viewing adaptability is limited.

The New State Fair Arena is projected to cost about 15% of what the downtown arena is. It is designed so that there are several good quality seating configurations, and the mezzanine layout is a modern design where dang near everyone in the building (who isn't in the bathroom) is able to see the action on the floor.

I think the high school basketball, wrestling and other tournaments at "The Big House" are an incredible opportunity to showcase "The City" to Oklahoma families everywhere from Altus to Miami, and Guymon to Broken Bow. The economic energy of the Fairgrounds is what has the Mathis people considering building a hotel at Portland and Reno, rather than furniture retail.

[bombermwc]

this is 100% correct

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

[BoulderSooner]

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

the entire building is basically falling apart ... electrical mechanical pluming .. ect....

it is old and to keep existing business a new facility is needed ..

[catcherinthewry]

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

Again, when was the last time you were in this building? I was in there in February and the place is a dump and has been for quite some time. Replacing the seats would be putting lipstick on a pig.

[chssooner]

I mean if its seats, that's an easy fix. Replace them. So what else is a dump? Keep in mind what the purpose of the facility is. It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?

I know people say to compete with Ft Worth. We're already taking pieces off this to reduce things (roof, capacity, etc). Now we're going to be talking about what else gets cut out because of higher construction costs. Or we're going to be looking at extending the Maps tax to cover (or reducing other Maps projects just so this thing makes it).

Just say you haven't been in the arena and are playing devils advocate and move on. The arena doesn't represent OKC well, at all. It is falling apart, is older than most people on this board, by 15 years, and has needed replacing for 15 tears.

[Jeepnokc]

I It's not for Thunder games. It's for Disney on Ice, Rodeos, Horse Shows, etc. I mean how nice do you need a place to be for 5 tons of dirt to be regularly thrown in the arena and run some horses around?
).

I am curious how the economical impact of the events at the arena is compared to the Paycom Center. Paycom is larger but the arena does multiple day events that require numerous nights in hotel. Would be interesting to see what they are as I have no clue.

[Laramie]

New Fairgrounds Coliseum plans go before city council today.

[Laramie]

New projections show Oklahoma City’s 8-year penny sales tax bringing in $100 million over initial estimates, meaning the fourth rendition of the Metropolitan Area Projects capital improvement plan could be a nearly $1.08 billion initiative.--Oklahoman, Jana Hayes, 08/16/2022

$1.08 billion means that MAPS 4 Initiative is bringing in $135 million in penny sales tax collections annually.

[BDP]

I am curious how the economical impact of the events at the arena is compared to the Paycom Center. Paycom is larger but the arena does multiple day events that require numerous nights in hotel. Would be interesting to see what they are as I have no clue.

I think the estimated impact #s for both are in this thread somewhere, but intuitively things like horse shows have a significantly higher net impact, simply because most of the money generated is new money to the market. Certainly concerts and thunder games bring some out of market visitors, but, in the case of horse shows, it's almost entirely visitors from all over the country and internationally. In fact, horse shows are probably our biggest international draw (maybe Route 66 brings in more international victors a year, but I don't know).

So, even if the estimated gross impacts for Paycom and the fairgrounds arena were the same amounts, the net gain to the economy overall would be greater for events at the fairgrounds that draw from outside the market.

That being said, the fairgrounds gets 6/11 of the hospitality tax collected. I don't have any raw numbers of how much that actually is, but it does raise the question of why is it not enough to build a new arena without MAPS? There are reasons to question how this is being funded, but the economic significance of international horse shows, etc. is not one of them.

[David]

The fairgrounds really needs to comply with the open meetings act or be sued to do so.

Not that I am volunteering to do so.

[BDP]

The fairgrounds really needs to comply with the open meetings act or be sued to do so.

Not that I am volunteering to do so.

Yeah. It'd probably have to be someone with a vested interest to do so and I'm not really sure who that would be. Maybe some politician, but I don't know if it's that big of an issue to anyone to hang a campaign on. Other than that, it'd just be John Q. Taxpayer, and ain't nobody got time (or money) for that,

[PaddyShack]

I can attest to the Horse Shows economic significance as we are a major vendor of a few of the shows that roll through OKC. We also handled their shows outside of OKC, but their big event in is OKC and is worth quite a bit of change. We see zero business from the events that go through the Paycom center except the Thunder, which is smaller in volume than the Horse Show business.

[bombermwc]

So knowing that MAPS is now going to bring in an extra 100M, what are the chances that the original design is put back in to play? It was originally shopped due to construction costs, but if you have the money to pay for it now.....

[David]

According to a Mayor Holt Twitter thread yesterday the extra MAPS4 funds are being proportionally distributed to the projects with an aim of accounting for construction cost inflation, I would not bet anything on that money being used to scale any given project up.

[warreng88]

It's still amazing to me that no serious development has happened in the area surrounding the state fairground because of the fairgrounds. I would think someone would want to come in and buy properties directly to the east or that corner of NW 10th and May and do something all encompassing like hotel, bar, restaurant and not just what we have now. I live a mile north and the only thing I have seen is a small house bulldozed to build something more modern.

[Bill Robertson]

It's still amazing to me that no serious development has happened in the area surrounding the state fairground because of the fairgrounds. I would think someone would want to come in and buy properties directly to the east or that corner of NW 10th and May and do something all encompassing like hotel, bar, restaurant and not just what we have now. I live a mile north and the only thing I have seen is a small house bulldozed to build something more modern.

I think the problem is that the areas you're talking about and the areas surrounding them have always been considered a not very desirable area of OKC. And I worked in the area for years and grew up off 36th then lived on 19th for many years. Both right off of May. A development might work if they bought up a large enough area to have the amenities plus a separation from the neighborhood.

[bombermwc]

I think the problem is that the areas you're talking about and the areas surrounding them have always been considered a not very desirable area of OKC. And I worked in the area for years and grew up off 36th then lived on 19th for many years. Both right off of May. A development might work if they bought up a large enough area to have the amenities plus a separation from the neighborhood.

And if you have children, OKCPS is not desirable either. So you'd have to be able to afford a private school or be ok with OKCPS.

[Laramie]

And if you have children, OKCPS is not desirable either. So you'd have to be able to afford a private school or be ok with OKCPS.

Disagree!

[bombermwc]

Disagree!

As i said, or be ok with OKCPS. I'm not going to try to change your mind or anything. So if you're happy with OKCPS, then i'm glad that this is the case.

[Plutonic Panda]

This Maps 4 project to build a new arena at the fairgrounds breaks ground on December 9th.

The Oklahoma State Fairgrounds is building a new arena on its premises.

“The project is currently out for bids with the opening of said bids scheduled for Wednesday, October 12,” Marketing Senior Vice President Scott Munz said.

A groundbreaking ceremony is scheduled for Friday, December 9. Construction is expected to begin shortly thereafter. The current estimated timeline is 24 months.

The architect, Populous, made a design presentation to the Oklahoma City Council on Tuesday, August 16, which was approved.

The design featured a 140’ x 270’ arena floor, visibility from the concourse through to the arena floor, state of the art lighting, modern concession stands, charging stations along the chair rail and more.

This is a new design concept in place of the traditional design concept of not being able to see the main floor from the concourse,” Munz said.

The current budget is sitting at just over $102 million for the building itself, he said.

A much-needed connector is not included in the $102 million budget for the new coliseum, he said. The connector would connect the new coliseum to the Super Barn.

“We are very much engaged in an ongoing effort to identify and secure the additional funding to build the connector as it needs to be to accommodate vendor space, exercise and warm-up areas and show pen space, if needed by the shows,” Munz said.

- https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/dev...ack=super_blog

[Rover]

Disagree!

OKCPS consistently rank very,very low in student achievement. That’s a fact. That’s what people looking to move to OKC look at when considering to move their family here to take a job. Locals have just accepted a very low bar.

[dankrutka]

OKCPS consistently rank very,very low in student achievement. That’s a fact. That’s what people looking to move to OKC look at when considering to move their family here to take a job. Locals have just accepted a very low bar.

Almost all urban school districts in the U.S. have an "achievement gap" due to white flight, huge differences in funding and resources, and the concentration of poverty in urban schools. In short, many people with means abandon OKCPS, often on stereptypes or biases. Moreover, student achievement data is not correlated to school quality. People have this idea in their heads that kids walk into schools as blank slates and their school experiences determine their test scores. It's not true. Even if a lot of OKCPS schools were the best schools in the state, student "achievement" might still appear average. In the end, achievement scores end up deepening inequality due to the very fact that people think of test scores as an objective measurement, or "a fact."

[bombermwc]

We're a little off topic, but dankrutka the white flight statement leads that above comment to insinuate that it's a racial aspect, but i dont think that's what you were trying to say there. It's socio-economic, not racial.

One of the major aspects to that conversation is parent involvement. That contributes to the gap in a HUGE way. It's extremely difficult for parents that are working 2 or 3 jobs to be able to spend the little time they have to help with homework or participate in activities/fund raisers/etc. In these same economically depressed areas, a large number of the kids are even working as young as 14 years old just to help pay the bills. People do what they need to in order to get by, and often the school work is what gets sacrificed to put food on the table.

[Rover]

Almost all urban school districts in the U.S. have an "achievement gap" due to white flight, huge differences in funding and resources, and the concentration of poverty in urban schools. In short, many people with means abandon OKCPS, often on stereptypes or biases. Moreover, student achievement data is not correlated to school quality. People have this idea in their heads that kids walk into schools as blank slates and their school experiences determine their test scores. It's not true. Even if a lot of OKCPS schools were the best schools in the state, student "achievement" might still appear average. In the end, achievement scores end up deepening inequality due to the very fact that people think of test scores as an objective measurement, or "a fact."

On average OK public schools pay less and get less qualified teachers, and get less performance. The better teachers leave the state or go to private schools. What you are implying is that it’s all the kids’ fault. That’s a cop out.

[Laramie]

Unless any of you have been on the receiving in of dealing with the ugliness of segregation and racial discrimination you will never know the hurt and humiliation associated with these acts. Keeping a level head without allowing yourself to become desensitize requires me to continue to practice what I preach about treating people with respect. Being able to admit when you are wrong and it's never harmful to offer a sincere genuine apology.

It's easy to look the other way and call it something you don't experience everyday of being denied basic rights and frowned upon; looked down on--sometimes with pity as this trait becomes ingrained in some people's daily lives. No, some of you don't see it and you probably never will see it; because fortunately for you, you don't have to deal with it. What is 'IT,' if you don't know by now--it's not going to matter--because no one is trying to shame you or make you feel the inadequacies others have felt in their struggles to gain respect and be treated with human dignity.

Am I mad or angry--NO, it's disappointment because you see the progress being made which gives hope to future generations. There are more important things I want to continue to be concerned with in my life than to allow myself to be driven by hate and revenge that's more harmful to me than to those who spend their lives oppressing others.

I'm not saying we should be treated with kid gloves when all we've asking is to be treated with respect. None of us can make right the 'wrongs' of generations, so you move on and make each day better. Sure, there will be scars in the process--don't carry the weight of those scars and allow yourself to be pulled down as a result. Continue on with 'Respect.'

The same respect and dignity man wants to be treated with--we all have struggles and we all have to recognize life for what it is. Just saying, make the most of your life in the way you treat your fellow man.

Dan, you work with this daily, you recognize the struggles and I admire your commitment to education--keep up the good work.

.