One must also consider the legality and/or appearance of offering a direct subsidy to a foreign business with taxpayer money.
One must also consider the legality and/or appearance of offering a direct subsidy to a foreign business with taxpayer money.
Aviation is a little bit more complicated than that type of deal, which would likely be structured anyway to directly subsidize a US based division. The airplanes would be operated by a foreign entity, based in a foreign land, and profits go directly to a foreign entity. There is no USA division of Air Canada.
If I had the pro-formas then I would probably be working for an airline rather than a major IT company. And I was being facetious about ICT passing OKC - however, it is the only major airport in its state - so the thought of an OMA situation isn't that far removed. BTW - OMA does have better service than OKC; so that was my point.
And BTW, this is a chat forum so if you don't like what I say then you can ignore or comment without trying to insult or push me to insult you. I made a nice point about OKC stepping up its game and after refilling the major US cities it should consider MEX and CA as International options even if it meant a temporary subsidy. Not sure what's wrong with that or why you make a hissy fit on me providing anything more than MY OPINION to an OKC Forum.
International travel options provide cache to cities, OKC lacks in that department. But imagine if the state or city could bring up their flight options to a Panasonic next time, perhaps we would land that facility since all businesses (including my company) need air service (which BTW there are daily non-stops SEA-OKC - which prior to the mid-2010s was a far flung idea too if I remember correctly).
Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!
Kansas City has a major airport, and while not technically in the state it is for all intents and purposes a factor for the eastern half of Kansas. Kansas also has, for now, service across the state with Dodge City, Liberal, Hays, Manhattan, and Salina all having commercial air service. This erodes away at Wichita’s catchment area.
Flight options have nothing to do with hopes and dreams. Butts in seats and dollars in the spreadsheet are the only thing that matter to an airline. Fill their planes and print them money, the service will follow. Subsidies can get a route going but they should not be relied upon, and if the service isn’t meeting financial expectations they will drop it the moment the subsidy ends.
Are there any routes of of OKC that are being subsidized?
No. OKC does not offer any cash subsidies, but rather does offer incentives in the form of reduced landing fees, marketing assistance (a direct check to Ackerman McQueen), and/or reduced rent for routes that qualify.
Yeah I think if we got anything international, it would much more likely be seasonally to Mexico or some other popular vacation/resort destination. There was a time when Calgary potentially had enough traffic to OKC for oil and gas type traffic but that time has passed in all likelihood (if it ever existed in the first place).
Agreed.
It will be interesting if the proposed Transborder Joint Venture proposed in the past week by Air Canada and United will spur any growth to new markets, if approved. Basically reduced capacity in markets where there is overlap freeing up airplane time for Air Canada to attempt some other routes in the US. Any new routes would not be part of the joint venture.
Would have been way better for OKC if it was Frontier and Spirit.
Oh come on. I never insulted you, nor did I push you to insult me. Disagreeing with someone is not the same as insulting them.
And you have it backwards IMO - international flights are largely driven by demand for them. Airlines don't start international flights hoping to stimulate demand, they start them because the demand is there. Emirates isn't about to set up shop in OKC hoping that people here will all of a sudden want to fly to the Middle East or Asia in large numbers (extreme example but my point stands).
It seems like Frontier could fill an OKC-Cancun nonstop once a week. Am I dreaming or did an airline use to fly that route but had to stop in Dallas on the way back due to OKC not having an FIS (immigration facility)? There is one now, not sure if it's fully built-out yet though.
yep, and I believe it was Sun Country Airlines.
No reason why it couldn't be done again, this time without the stop in TX on the way down and once a week sounds about right to start.
Also, I didn't say we should subsidize forever, I specifically said to start as an incentive. International travel potential is there, right now it funnels through DFW. It'll be up to OKC to figure out what they can and can't do and we're not talking about daily non-stops, but 'something' where the numbers might work is a valid portfolio point we can trump and tell businesses when discussing OKC's flight options on potential recruitment/relocation visits.
Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!
Champion Air ran their 727’s OKC-PVR/CUN. And CUN/PVR-DFW-OKC back in the early 2000’s.
PLANET AIR also was around too, in the early 2000’s. Those airlines didn’t directly sell the flights, they were public charters put together by a consortium of travel agencies. That’s why some years it was Planet, and some years it was Champion.
When oil did its thing in 2007 both those airlines filed for bankruptcy. I don’t think anyone ever tried to get those charters back.
Apple Vacations (not affiliated with the tech company) does handle a ton of Mexico vacation packages from various Midwest mid-small cities. They were chartering with ATA,, Midwest, as well as USA3000. Of course all 3 of those airlines are gone. Apple then started using Frontier, but frontier has moved out of the charter business as far as I know. I am not sure who Apple is using now, probably Sun Country. I think Allegiant was trying to buy out Apple Vacations at some point and just roll them into their pre-packaged vacations. Not sure whatever happened to it as I don’t follow the charter side of things very closely.
The family and I took an opportunity to drop my mother off at the airport Friday afternoon to look at the new area. We really enjoyed the new space and my son really loved the "observation deck". However, for me now I wish it wrapped around the whole terminal building, A lot of the ground ops and the majority of 17R/35L is out of view. But it is nice to have an area to wait around in that is not behind the security line.
when will they get around to updating the website? The new terminal and concourse have been complete and open for (what?) over a year now yet the website does not reflect this and is ridiculously out-dated.
come on OKC.
Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!
I had gotten the impression that at least in the past they did not have permanent developers for their site, so anything more than basic edits or file uploads that can be done with whatever content management the site is designed around waits till they decide it need an overhaul, then contract that out.
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