Eight Twenty Solar

[shawnw]

820 came by my workplace for an assessment yesterday. You can remove the panels individually. One of our buildings has a new roof and the other needs a roof update. I expressed concern and they said they would be ballast mounted to the roof and so removeable for roof work. However, he did say it would be best if they assisted with that to make sure things were reconnected properly.

[Midtowner]

820 came by my workplace for an assessment yesterday. You can remove the panels individually. One of our buildings has a new roof and the other needs a roof update. I expressed concern and they said they would be ballast mounted to the roof and so removeable for roof work. However, he did say it would be best if they assisted with that to make sure things were reconnected properly.

So far, they seem really committed to good service after the install. I recently (last week) had an issue where the grid in my area was going down and my battery couldn't handle both A/C units cycling on, so the power would fail for everything, come right back on, but as soon as the thermostats booted up and told the A/C to turn on, everything would fail again. At their expense, they're going to be installing a device which can automatically limit certain high-power consuming breakers from activating in the even the grid goes down.

[Shuffinator]

Just checked my bill for May so far. $14.

Can I ask what your monthly cost for the panels are?

[Midtowner]

Can I ask what your monthly cost for the panels are?

The payment is roughly what my electric bill was. Maybe a little more, but I added a battery system. I'll also invest in a generator and maybe add some batteries in the future because I think it's important for anyone who can afford to be self sufficient to be self sufficient. Just look at Texas right now. We should all be taking steps right now to shield ourselves from the effects of a mismanaged grid, because that's what's coming.

[jn1780]

820 came by my workplace for an assessment yesterday. You can remove the panels individually. One of our buildings has a new roof and the other needs a roof update. I expressed concern and they said they would be ballast mounted to the roof and so removeable for roof work. However, he did say it would be best if they assisted with that to make sure things were reconnected properly.

I'm sure its not hard to disassemble, I would be concern 10, 15, 20 years down the road when everything is sun baked, and everything does not go back together as they should. Hopefully they cover some of that cost.

[Lafferty Daniel]

I'm sure its not hard to disassemble, I would be concern 10, 15, 20 years down the road when everything is sun baked, and everything does not go back together as they should. Hopefully they cover some of that cost.

Not sure about eight twenty, but ADT Solar has a 25 year guarantee on their panels. So if something goes wrong 15 years later, it'll be under warranty and it won't cost the homeowner anything.

[shawnw]

Per the Solarize OKC presentation, there's a 25 year warranty by 820 and 30 year by the manufacture (they overlap, it's not consecutive). I talked to them after the presentation and they said the warranty covers up to golf ball sized hail, but that anything bigger than that is likely to cause huge damage which would end up being an insurance claim instead.

[mkjeeves]

The payment is roughly what my electric bill was. Maybe a little more, but I added a battery system. I'll also invest in a generator and maybe add some batteries in the future because I think it's important for anyone who can afford to be self sufficient to be self sufficient. Just look at Texas right now. We should all be taking steps right now to shield ourselves from the effects of a mismanaged grid, because that's what's coming.

How long is the finance term?

[soonerguru]

How long is the finance term?

Same. I'm really interested in this.

[king183]

How long is the finance term?

They offer several options. If I recall correctly, I think a 5, 7, 10, and 20 year term. There might have been others too. Some of them have origination fees, while others don’t. The estimated payment on the note, by the way, takes into account the federal tax credit you will get for installation of the solar power system by assuming you will put the credit toward the loan. In other words, if you get an $8000 federal tax credit, the bank assumes you’ll take that $8000 and pay it on the loan. This lowers the monthly payment. You don’t have to put the credit toward the loan, of course. If you don’t, then your monthly payment will increase to account for that. There are also no prepayment fees, so you can pay it all off whenever you want to. I intend to pay mine off within a year, so I chose the loan option with no origination fee.

[W8N2SKI]

Not sure if it is related to the building of Eight Twenty's office but trees were being cleared this morning to the east of the I-235/Sheridan Ave exit (small triangular plot between the two railroad ROWs)

[April in the Plaza]

Their site shows no money down options (e.g. loans)

Every time I price out solar, it’s like a 10 year break-even period and even longer with batteries. Just doesn’t seem like a great ROI unless residential kWh pricing increases by 200% or so.

[Midtowner]

How long is the finance term?

I did the 20 year, but I will pay it off way sooner. At 3% though, it's hard to beat.

[Pete]

Not sure if it is related to the building of Eight Twenty's office but trees were being cleared this morning to the east of the I-235/Sheridan Ave exit (small triangular plot between the two railroad ROWs)

Yes, that's where the announced their plans to build.

But thus far, they have not submitted anything for design approval or any sort of building permit.

I know the site was contaminated, so it might be just cleanup before they can start to move forward.

[OKCRealtor]

Definitely coming across these more frequently with clients & homes. Everyone should keep in mind that solar panels likely will have to be paid off at closing should you sell and make a move. If you're not in a position to do that or don't have the equity you're going to be in a tough spot. Case in point I have some past clients who recently added them this year, decided they wanted to sell & move back home and long story short had no idea they would have to still pay them off without any increase to the value of their property. Something to keep in mind if you don't plan on staying put for a very long time.

[fortpatches]

Definitely coming across these more frequently with clients & homes. Everyone should keep in mind that solar panels likely will have to be paid off at closing should you sell and make a move. If you're not in a position to do that or don't have the equity you're going to be in a tough spot. Case in point I have some past clients who recently added them this year, decided they wanted to sell & move back home and long story short had no idea they would have to still pay them off without any increase to the value of their property. Something to keep in mind if you don't plan on staying put for a very long time.

Kinda surprised it doesn't increase property value. It would be more valuable to me. Like, if the property value increased 40k, over 30yrs at 7%, that's $267/mo - which, comparing OGE bills with a colleague who has solar, I would net $50/mo or so at that rate. Since it doesn't increase prop value, I would lean towards houses with solar to net a few hundred per month.

[Midtowner]

I have solar, and my discussions and research suggest that at some point in the near future, solar will factor in to the $/sq. ft. in a more predictable way, but there just aren't enough homes with this feature for there to be good comps for appraisers. And there are so many variables with any given solar installation that it's not so simple as checking the box, i.e., yes/no whether there is solar because there is a huge difference between a 5kwH system and a 20kWh system. Is there a battery or not? How old are the panels?

I would imagine that the industry as a whole is or at least should be putting together some sort of guidelines for appraisals, but even in some communities like Edmond (the Edmond Electric part), where they have a cap on solar power generation, what will it be worth to have a solar permit in a community where the production of solar power is capped?

[OKCRealtor]

Kinda surprised it doesn't increase property value. It would be more valuable to me. Like, if the property value increased 40k, over 30yrs at 7%, that's $267/mo - which, comparing OGE bills with a colleague who has solar, I would net $50/mo or so at that rate. Since it doesn't increase prop value, I would lean towards houses with solar to net a few hundred per month.

Maybe a little for the right person/house but generally speaking a buyer isn't going to pony up an extra 20-40k to assume your solar panels. From that perspective it perhaps may make more sense. Take identical $200k houses side by side- would you pay $30k more for the one with solar?

That doesn't even begin to address the issue with appraisals as mentioned. Could it change down the line? Sure, but there's not enough of it out there yet IMO. The breakeven point on solar is a long long time. Average person moves too often for it to be a net positive.

[Richard at Remax]

As OKC Realtor said, I have seen that solar panels add little to no value when it comes to appraisals. It's more like "hey this house comes with solar panesl. that's cool I guess?"

[king183]

Hmm. I agree that the talking point for most people wouldn't be "hey this house comes with solar panels"; it's "hey, your monthly energy bill is $15 in this house."

[Midtowner]

Maybe a little for the right person/house but generally speaking a buyer isn't going to pony up an extra 20-40k to assume your solar panels. From that perspective it perhaps may make more sense. Take identical $200k houses side by side- would you pay $30k more for the one with solar?

That doesn't even begin to address the issue with appraisals as mentioned. Could it change down the line? Sure, but there's not enough of it out there yet IMO. The breakeven point on solar is a long long time. Average person moves too often for it to be a net positive.

If you're representing the seller in that scenario and can't sell the house with solar for a little more or at least get them to choose your house over the non-solar house, you're bad at your job.

[fortpatches]

Maybe a little for the right person/house but generally speaking a buyer isn't going to pony up an extra 20-40k to assume your solar panels. From that perspective it perhaps may make more sense. Take identical $200k houses side by side- would you pay $30k more for the one with solar?

That doesn't even begin to address the issue with appraisals as mentioned. Could it change down the line? Sure, but there's not enough of it out there yet IMO. The breakeven point on solar is a long long time. Average person moves too often for it to be a net positive.

Yes, I probably would pay $30k more for the one with solar panels, all else being equal.
$200k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,330/mo
$230k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,530/mo

That $30k additional cost to my loan on a monthly basis would increase my monthly mortgage by ~$200 but decrease my monthly electrical usage by ~$350 right now, and electricity costs are only going to go up over the coming years.
So, I'd effectively be keeping ~$150/mo more of my monthly income if I go for the house with Solar.

Like, to put it another way:
200k house: $1,330/mo mortgage + $380/mo electric = ~$1,710
230k house: $1,530/mo mortgage + $30/mo electric = ~$1,560
$1,560 < $1,710 for basically the same product.

If it were a 15yr, I would effectively be keeping ~$80/mo since the monthly difference increases as amortization term decreases.

[chssooner]

Yes, I probably would pay $30k more for the one with solar panels, all else being equal.
$200k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,330/mo
$230k for 30yr @ 7% ~$1,530/mo

That $30k additional cost to my loan on a monthly basis would increase my monthly mortgage by ~$200 but decrease my monthly electrical usage by ~$350 right now, and electricity costs are only going to go up over the coming years.
So, I'd effectively be keeping ~$150/mo more of my monthly income if I go for the house with Solar.

Like, to put it another way:
200k house: $1,330/mo mortgage + $380/mo electric = ~$1,710
230k house: $1,530/mo mortgage + $30/mo electric = ~$1,560
$1,560 < $1,710 for basically the same product.

If it were a 15yr, I would effectively be keeping ~$80/mo since the monthly difference increases as amortization term decreases.

Moot point. What can you get a mortgage for? No more than the appraised value. If solar panels don't add value via an appraisal, then the buyer is on the hook for that difference, and can then back out of a sale. Banks and mortgage companies aren't normally in the business of loaning more than they could sell a house for. So it comes down to whether those panels are truly worth the price, in terms of value. You can tell the buyer that they will save this and that, but as said above, most people aren't staying in a house long enough to make their money back.

Just my opinion. It all comes down to your individual situation. But no appraiser is going to increase a home value because of the panels.

[Midtowner]

Moot point. What can you get a mortgage for? No more than the appraised value. If solar panels don't add value via an appraisal, then the buyer is on the hook for that difference, and can then back out of a sale. Banks and mortgage companies aren't normally in the business of loaning more than they could sell a house for. So it comes down to whether those panels are truly worth the price, in terms of value. You can tell the buyer that they will save this and that, but as said above, most people aren't staying in a house long enough to make their money back.

Just my opinion. It all comes down to your individual situation. But no appraiser is going to increase a home value because of the panels.

You’re assuming every loan is FHA with minimal down payment. There’s probably not a huge amount of entry level inventory with solar panels anyhow, so I’m guessing the appraisal issue isn’t that big a deal.

[fortpatches]

...You can tell the buyer that they will save this and that, but as said above, most people aren't staying in a house long enough to make their money back.

As I showed, you literally pay less starting on the first month. As in, on a *monthly* basis, you spend less money. And if you take the different in price and put that extra $150/mo that you would otherwise have to spend on electricity against your mortgage, you would pay off the higher mortgage 7years earlier and save over $88k in interest.

I am not sure where "making your money back" comes into the picture since you always have more money each month. Like, you don't talk about "making your money back" when you just measure interest from money you put in a savings account.

This would be more akin to amortizing 30% of my electric costs over the next 30yrs and not having to pay the other 70%.