OKC Roads and Highways

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ or, dare I say, landscaped medians

[Zuplar]

A combination of both. This state has proved time and time again they'll happily spend five dollars on something that lasts one month rather than spend fifty dollars on something that lasts a year. Cause five is less than fifty, you see. An idiot could tell you that actually fifty is less than sixty, but we can't seem to think that far ahead.

Case in point: Mustang is doing it right now. Mustang road south of 152 has two schools, one of them the high school. It's a two lane road. It needed expansion YEARS ago. Now that we're to the point that making it at least four lanes, if not five (center turning lane) is a good idea, especially when looking to the future, they're finally expanding it. To three lanes. Yup, they're building the road we needed 10-20 years ago. Could spend a few extra bucks and build the road right, but nope. It'll cost more, WAY more, to do it right in the future, but since it would cost slightly more now, no way.

From the couple of decades I've lived in the Mustang area, they seem to half-ass and cheap out on almost everything. I remember when they were supposed to pave 89th from Mustang road to Czech Hall, but they didn't have enough money so they cut it short by somewhere in the neighborhood of a quarter mile. Still that way to this day.

[LakeEffect]

A combination of both. This state has proved time and time again they'll happily spend five dollars on something that lasts one month rather than spend fifty dollars on something that lasts a year. Cause five is less than fifty, you see. An idiot could tell you that actually fifty is less than sixty, but we can't seem to think that far ahead.

Case in point: Mustang is doing it right now. Mustang road south of 152 has two schools, one of them the high school. It's a two lane road. It needed expansion YEARS ago. Now that we're to the point that making it at least four lanes, if not five (center turning lane) is a good idea, especially when looking to the future, they're finally expanding it. To three lanes. Yup, they're building the road we needed 10-20 years ago. Could spend a few extra bucks and build the road right, but nope. It'll cost more, WAY more, to do it right in the future, but since it would cost slightly more now, no way.

Three lane sections are much more efficient than you might think. They successfully carry over 20,000 cars per day in many urban areas, and assist cities and states with keeping pavement to a minimum, which keeps O&M costs to a minimum. TOO many streets in the OKC Metro are 4 or 5 lane. Far too many.

Mustang Road south of 89th saw 1917 ADT in 2017... 89th east of Mustang was at 2756 in 2018. ACOG doesn't have a traffic count on its website for Mustang Road between 152 & 89th, but I'd be willing to bet it's around 7500 ADT during the school year, and much less in the summer. A 3 lane section is the most efficient way to plan the roadway.

[HangryHippo]

^^^ or, dare I say, landscaped medians

Mostly a foreign concept in OKC. Sadly. But they'll four-lane every POS road in NW OKC.

[cbing04]

The reason that I asked this question is because there is absolutely zero public transportation in the burbs. I never see buses except for downtown. This is just unreal to me. A metro population over 1.25 million and zero public transportation for people in the suburbs. Add in the fact that the streets are designed for that of a small city and it seems like someone has their collective heads up their a**es. But, why would you want to spend money on this when you don't want to spend money on education or anything else. Can't wait until my time here is over!

[Bellaboo]

The reason that I asked this question is because there is absolutely zero public transportation in the burbs. I never see buses except for downtown. This is just unreal to me. A metro population over 1.25 million and zero public transportation for people in the suburbs. Add in the fact that the streets are designed for that of a small city and it seems like someone has their collective heads up their a**es. But, why would you want to spend money on this when you don't want to spend money on education or anything else. Can't wait until my time here is over!

Me too

[OKC Guy]

The reason that I asked this question is because there is absolutely zero public transportation in the burbs. I never see buses except for downtown. This is just unreal to me. A metro population over 1.25 million and zero public transportation for people in the suburbs. Add in the fact that the streets are designed for that of a small city and it seems like someone has their collective heads up their a**es. But, why would you want to spend money on this when you don't want to spend money on education or anything else. Can't wait until my time here is over!

Lots to unwrap here.

I agree our engineers are bad and not making right turn lanes at intersections is dumb at best.

We do have bus service but its bad because we put no money in and instead spent $133,00,000 on a tourist attraction street car. Had we built bus hubs in each quadrant then it would work much better.

Light rail is way oit there in future and lots of hurdles plus cost to overcome. The metro population may be 1.4m but its spread out over 5 counties. There is not enough mass to build light rail yet, thus why bus could have been fixed for way less than the street car expense.

To get light rail tax support would need it to run in all 4 directions. Would require other cities and counties support.

It seems you are frustrated with education expenses and let that sway your overall opinion. I drive here a lot and agree our engineers are bad. But remember we are a small state and to get fed funding for major projects we are bottom of food chain. Large states like Texas/Cali/Florida and others get to craft fed bills and since they are the huge voting blocks in House, when little old OK asks for money we go to bottom of list. The bigger states get their projects fully finded up front and can bid/work 24/7. OK gets little yearly chunks of money and have to spend 10-15 years to get all the miney for just 1 major project.

Lets look at 235/44. As soon as we get funding we bid out the work. The work gets dine and then we have to wait for the next years mkney release. When they did the 235S to 44W this was one small part of project but thats all the money we got. So we have to do that whole project in stages as money is released. If that was in Texas they get all money at once and bid it all and go to work 24/7 and its done in 2-4 years.

Getting funding is not like snapping fingers. The bigger states control process. “If you approve my big Texas project we’ll approve part of yours”. Cali alone has what, over 70 in the House? We have 6. Its not like we can control bills by voting against them, the larger states have enough to pass what they want.

There is more to it than I listed but thats our problem is we cannot get funding fast enough to appease people/projects. Only choice is pay for all of it ourselves which will never happen.

So that leaves state and city roads. To blanket say our roads are all bad is not always true. We’ve grown a lot from small city to bigger. Name one larger city not undergoing some type of road construction. A city is never caught up. Dallas always has road projects, and always will.

My biggest beefs with our roads:

- Not syncing lights. Drive down NW Exp and it should have a longer light in rush hour than side roads so more cars move. Nothing worse than 50 cars stopping so 1-3 cars can get light triggered.

- Not making right turn lanes at intersections. This is so easy and can be done when they redo it yet they are not.

- Not repairing roads timlely. Need quality inspectors driving roads offen to find/fix potholes and sections.

- OKC Connect App. Used to be best in country. You can report potholes or tree obstructions and many other problems through this easy to use app. At first the response time was fast, usually fixex within 1-3 days! Now its not even working good. In last 1.5 years I’ve reported 4 problems. In every case they did not fix problem. After from 3-4 weeks I had to call and ask. They were reported as completed each time and this is not true. Sketchy at best might be criminal if work paid for (2 may have been subcontracted on tree trimming - limbs grew and blocked flashing school zone light). I have an active one that is now 6 weeks old and on app it only shows “recieved”. I called last week and they said it was done in Dec. I said it was not. Asked to talk to boss nad got another dept and they said it was active/open. Then they said it was done. They have no idea what status is. I am going to search for someone to call maybe Councilman? Thats an example of what was good turned bad. Why have app when you end up having to call every time due to shady “signing off yet not done” work? I suspect their funding went down to divert to other things downtown or elsewhere?

Maps money was extended to repave a lot of roads. This will help but is a bandaid. Need to continue this.

I still love my city so don’t mistake my disdain for problems to mean OKC is a horrible place. We have growing pains like all cities, and always will. But its still home and a great place to live.

[mugofbeer]

I'm just going to respond to one point you make. Dallas, Denver, and SLC all have nice rail systems. All of them required tax support from multiple communities besides the main city to gain the support to create the transportation district and start collecting taxes. Dallas DART was controversial for years because they collected taxes for years before starting construction (as well as some other things), Denver had one key holdout that was forced into the transit district (long story) because this community housed a large shopping mall. The point is, the transit district is always regional and will always require regional cooperation.

[baralheia]

And it's important to note that such regional cooperation is happening here in Central Oklahoma as well. Edmond, OKC, Moore, Norman, Del City, and Midwest City have all signed the trust indenture to formally establish our regional transit authority. The first order of business is planning and studies, however, so we're still a little way away from breaking ground on any RTA-sponsored transit projects or even a vote to approve an independent funding mechanism. The first rail transit projects in Central OK most likely won't be light rail, either - the fairly extensive planning that's been done up to this point calls for commuter rail from Edmond to Norman, and two streetcar line extensions - one up Classen to NW 63rd and one east from Bricktown to Tinker, and it's very likely that the RTA will continue this planning.

[OKC Guy]

And it's important to note that such regional cooperation is happening here in Central Oklahoma as well. Edmond, OKC, Moore, Norman, Del City, and Midwest City have all signed the trust indenture to formally establish our regional transit authority. The first order of business is planning and studies, however, so we're still a little way away from breaking ground on any RTA-sponsored transit projects or even a vote to approve an independent funding mechanism. The first rail transit projects in Central OK most likely won't be light rail, either - the fairly extensive planning that's been done up to this point calls for commuter rail from Edmond to Norman, and two streetcar line extensions - one up Classen to NW 63rd and one east from Bricktown to Tinker, and it's very likely that the RTA will continue this planning.

How will this be funded? Is it a tax sent to voters or where does the money flow from, since so many cities/counties will be involved?

Also, I am personally against expanding street car especually to 63rd. Its slow and I don’t think is designed as a higher speed transit mechanism. I’m for light rail methods though.

And we need at least 2 years of operations to see how SC does. Any expansion needs to ask question if we need 2 rail lines or 1. For example if we do a round trip one track to 63rd just imagine how long a round trip takes. Need to see how current line works over time. May be cheaper and better to run bus shuttles to/from 63rd.

Thansk for the info at least we are closer to getting a regional plan going. By the way how old is Gov Henry?

[baralheia]

How will this be funded? Is it a tax sent to voters or where does the money flow from, since so many cities/counties will be involved?

Also, I am personally against expanding street car especually to 63rd. Its slow and I don’t think is designed as a higher speed transit mechanism. I’m for light rail methods though.

And we need at least 2 years of operations to see how SC does. Any expansion needs to ask question if we need 2 rail lines or 1. For example if we do a round trip one track to 63rd just imagine how long a round trip takes. Need to see how current line works over time. May be cheaper and better to run bus shuttles to/from 63rd.

Thansk for the info at least we are closer to getting a regional plan going. By the way how old is Gov Henry?

If I remember what Hutch said in the OKC Regional Transit System thread, the current initial phase of RTA operations is funded by endowments from the cities that chose to join the RTA planning process, and there is enough funding for the RTA to operate in planning mode for 3 to 5 years. All of the cities in the metro area were invited to take part in planning, but some - like Mustang and Yukon - actually declined to join. No actual transit projects will happen until the RTA asks voters within the transit district for that permanent funding, which would be at least a few years away; that permanent funding mechanism would be an additional sales tax, due to restrictions in state law.

It's my understanding that the current talk involving expansion with the Classen and Tinker lines is to have at least the Classen line double-tracked; however I can't find documented proof of that so I may not be remembering correctly! But I do know that a lot of work has been done so far by COTPA and ACOG in studying various corridors and trying to select the mode of transport that not only is the best bang for the buck, but is also the most likely to succeed. That's one of the reasons that the NW Expressway corridor was selected for BRT and not light rail. As for the streetcar - yes, the vehicles that were selected for our streetcar are capable of a maximum speed of 48mph, and as far as I know the extension lines would have stops spaced further apart, which would increase the speed of service vs the downtown loop. But again, this is all at least a few years away, and there will be additional studies done before implementation.

According to Wikipedia, our former governor Brad Henry is 55.

[OKC Guy]

If I remember what Hutch said in the OKC Regional Transit System thread, the current initial phase of RTA operations is funded by endowments from the cities that chose to join the RTA planning process, and there is enough funding for the RTA to operate in planning mode for 3 to 5 years. All of the cities in the metro area were invited to take part in planning, but some - like Mustang and Yukon - actually declined to join. No actual transit projects will happen until the RTA asks voters within the transit district for that permanent funding, which would be at least a few years away; that permanent funding mechanism would be an additional sales tax, due to restrictions in state law.

It's my understanding that the current talk involving expansion with the Classen and Tinker lines is to have at least the Classen line double-tracked; however I can't find documented proof of that so I may not be remembering correctly! But I do know that a lot of work has been done so far by COTPA and ACOG in studying various corridors and trying to select the mode of transport that not only is the best bang for the buck, but is also the most likely to succeed. That's one of the reasons that the NW Expressway corridor was selected for BRT and not light rail. As for the streetcar - yes, the vehicles that were selected for our streetcar are capable of a maximum speed of 48mph, and as far as I know the extension lines would have stops spaced further apart, which would increase the speed of service vs the downtown loop. But again, this is all at least a few years away, and there will be additional studies done before implementation.

According to Wikipedia, our former governor Brad Henry is 55.

Thanks for answers. What is BRT, bus? I always felt NWE was a great place for light rail but not at street level. If it was built up and over medium that would be too cost prohibitive. So although its a nice thought NWE will never have light rail due to costs imo.

[baralheia]

Thanks for answers. What is BRT, bus? I always felt NWE was a great place for light rail but not at street level. If it was built up and over medium that would be too cost prohibitive. So although its a nice thought NWE will never have light rail due to costs imo.

Yep! Bus Rapid Transit. It's a bus that usually has it's own dedicated lane and has stops spaced further apart, with more amenities at the stops vs a standard bus stop; it's not too dissimilar in concept from a light rail system, just using busses instead of light rail vehicles. If I remember correctly, ours won't have the fully dedicated lane component, except for in front of the bus stops, but otherwise the concept is the same.

And I wouldn't say never! There are large sections of the DART light rail system in Dallas that are elevated in certain areas, so it's certainly possible - just most likely not in the short term.

[OKC Guy]

Yep! Bus Rapid Transit. It's a bus that usually has it's own dedicated lane and has stops spaced further apart, with more amenities at the stops vs a standard bus stop; it's not too dissimilar in concept from a light rail system, just using busses instead of light rail vehicles. If I remember correctly, ours won't have the fully dedicated lane component, except for in front of the bus stops, but otherwise the concept is the same.

And I wouldn't say never! There are large sections of the DART light rail system in Dallas that are elevated in certain areas, so it's certainly possible - just most likely not in the short term.

I always felt we did bus system wrong. In my perfect workd we have a hub in all 4 quadrants which buses feed to. Then can go hub to hub. My thoughts are that instead of having to focus on all buses as one system if you break it into 5 then each system becomes smaller and covers less total miles and is easier to manage and make efficient. I think now its so large city wide its impossible to get them on time. If on time more folks might use. And each hub needs a fenced/secure parking lot for cars.

Maybe someday that can happen but I doubt it.

[TheTravellers]

Yep! Bus Rapid Transit. It's a bus that usually has it's own dedicated lane and has stops spaced further apart, with more amenities at the stops vs a standard bus stop; it's not too dissimilar in concept from a light rail system, just using busses instead of light rail vehicles. If I remember correctly, ours won't have the fully dedicated lane component, except for in front of the bus stops, but otherwise the concept is the same.

And I wouldn't say never! There are large sections of the DART light rail system in Dallas that are elevated in certain areas, so it's certainly possible - just most likely not in the short term.

I'm curious how "rapid" it will be without a dedicated lane, NW Expressway is absolutely horrible traffic-wise, nothing "rapid" about any part of it.

[cbing04]

I'm curious how "rapid" it will be without a dedicated lane, NW Expressway is absolutely horrible traffic-wise, nothing "rapid" about any part of it.

I’m pretty confident that city planners/Oklahomans in general don’t have rapid in their vocabulary. Just saying.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't have a sub for the JR yet but this articles says transportation will be top priority for OKC this year: https://journalrecord.com/2019/02/20...ve-priorities/

[Plutonic Panda]

The road that wraps around the north side of lake Hefner will be closed for repairs:

https://www.news9.com/story/620a628b...struction-work

https://freepressokc.com/road-toppin...ough-march-31/

[mugofbeer]

Thanks for answers. What is BRT, bus? I always felt NWE was a great place for light rail but not at street level. If it was built up and over medium that would be too cost prohibitive. So although its a nice thought NWE will never have light rail due to costs imo.

I think l have gone 180 on BRT lines. Denver built a decent rail system but a couple of new lines came on just as Covid hit. The ridership has still not come close to recovery so the entire system is in financial trouble. Building dedicated lanes, routes or elevated roadways for busses may not be a bad idea since busses are cheaper and more flexible in capacity.

[SEMIweather]

The road that wraps around the north side of lake Hefner will be closed for repairs:

https://www.news9.com/story/620a628b...struction-work

https://freepressokc.com/road-toppin...ough-march-31/

While I'm busy complaining about infrastructure projects that have completely stalled out, it is May 24th and this road is still closed.

[OkiePoke]

While I'm busy complaining about infrastructure projects that have completely stalled out, it is May 24th and this road is still closed.

It was open for a while. I didn't realize it closed. I road out there last week, no issue.

[SEMIweather]

It was open for a while. I didn't realize it closed. I road out there last week, no issue.

Entirely possible I’m wrong then lol. All I know is that as of yesterday there’s still a sign at Wilshire and Lakeshore stating that Lakeshore is closed.

[TheTravellers]

Entirely possible I’m wrong then lol. All I know is that as of yesterday there’s still a sign at Wilshire and Lakeshore stating that Lakeshore is closed.

OKC does tend to leave road construction signs up for too long after a project is finished, but they're usually of the "left lane closed" variety, not "road closed".

[OkiePoke]

Pretty sure they forgot to take down the barriers at the new Texas-turnaround at Penn and Memorial.

[Bill Robertson]

Entirely possible I’m wrong then lol. All I know is that as of yesterday there’s still a sign at Wilshire and Lakeshore stating that Lakeshore is closed.

I'm pretty sure the road is open from Britton north around the dam but is now or still closed from Britton south.