The Canton ( formerly Residences at Classen Curve)

[Oski]

Not sure why developers call this complex, or the Bower, or Villa Teresa, etc. luxury. Those are just above average, and overpriced. I think luxury should look something like these new developments in Nashville: https://nashvillelifestyles.com/at-h...own-nashville/

[Jersey Boss]

I know several people who had sent in applications, and others who were moving in in the next 2-3 weeks. Seems very hyperbolic.

My guess is that there are enough connected folks on this forum that can get to the bottom of this. I'm curious as to the sourcing of the television station story.

[Plutonic Panda]

you should come out to LA and see some of the apartments labeled as luxury units

[DowntownMan]

Most people calling this arson are your typical Facebook comments. They think it’s overpriced because they themselves don’t see value in the location, or wouldn’t want to pay the rents themselves or they don’t have income themselves to support that living but they fail to realize many actually do and choose to. The mentality of “I don’t” why wouldn’t anyone else has them all convinced these would sit empty and this had to be fraud.

Guess they haven’t seen the other apartments going up downtown or looked at those first national rent rates

They will all be shocked to see this rising from ground in about a year to only be rebuilt as is then open at some point in future with even higher rents.

Just my guess

[aDark]

It makes zero logical sense to think that this one very well located and nice development would not be able to sign leases when every other apartment complex in town is nearly full.

Especially because of the area and the almost complete lack of rental units.

I never believed this apartment complex would have success. I posted that opinion back in November of 2019 when it was announced. In my amateur opinion, the lack of rental units in the area computes well with the fact that its not a part of town that the renting demographic would want to be in. Statistics show that ~50% of the rental demographic are under 30 years old. U30 in OKC with the financial means to afford premium rents will want to be near downtown. If you have enough money to play and live in an around Classen Curve then you would also have enough money to simply go buy a house in the Village or other peripheral Nichols Hills area. In addition, Chesapeake is a shadow of what it once was. There's no longer hundreds of mid-twenties graduates clawing to live near the campus.

The only people that I can imagine would have rented here are recently divorced parents who have left the house/kids in Nichols Hills but want to stay close.

It's just a weird location for apartment living!

My money says this never gets re-built.

[Pete]

^

I could not disagree with you more.

When I was in my 20's I would have lived there in a heartbeat, and that was long before they added all the great places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods and about 30 restaurants and bars, plus tons of great shopping.

Besides downtown, I would rate this location as the best in all of OKC for someone looking for an apartment. Chisholm Creek is now adding their second big complex and it doesn't have half of what this area offers. The similar apartments at University North Park in Norman also have a very high occupancy rate.

[soonerguru]

https://www.news9.com/story/620490da...W-GA-n4K49YQZg

News 9 is reporting that they were supposed to open March 1st, but only had 12 applications and no leases signed. Some folks in the comments are suspecting an inside arson job

I always turn to the News 9 comments section for reliable information.

[Pete]

BTW, Hines is the primary developer for this project and they are truly a global behemoth with over $83 billion of real estate in their portfolio. They know what they are doing.

They paid $4 million for this site. There is no way they don't rebuild, especially at a time approaching all-time housing shortages.

I'm working on getting information about their pre-leasing. I'd be absolutely shocked if the Channel 9 reporting was accurate.

[soonerguru]

Some people are just unable to envision something that isn't there yet. There's no way that News 9 story about no leases is correct, and I am with Pete on this: once fully actualized, that area is going to be a very vibrant and convenient place to live.

As to eDark's comments: who says they were targeting 20-somethings as their primary resident? In other big cities, some people prefer to rent. If I lived alone, I may choose to rent. Pretty sure I would trade a big or even medium-sized house for a property where I could walk to Whole Foods, Flip's, Classen Curve, and Nichols Hills Plaza. Those kinds of amenities are very attractive to people in their thirties and up. Many more mature adults would prefer apartment living but wouldn't want to live in a building populated by young folks just graduating college, as many properties are in OKC.

Home ownership is great, and I am a proud home owner, but keeping up a home is expensive. Even well-built homes require maintenance, plumbing repairs, interior and exterior painting, roofing, heat and air maintenance, etc. That's without mentioning lawn work. I live in a dual income household in which both parties are gainfully employed and we spend a lot of money on this, which in our case, also includes pool maintenance.

Then you have costs for insurance and so much more. Utilities in a house are usually way more expensive than in an apartment or condo, too. In our case, our mortgage payment is probably comparable to a one-bedroom unit, but when you add in all of the other costs, it is significantly more monthly outlay.

Many couples or singles of virtually any age prefer to have the amenities a property like the Canton offers without the headaches of ownership. For most Americans, their home is their primary investment vehicle. But in big cities across America people rent and make other investments to build wealth.

The article I read stated that these have been under construction for two years, which is less time than I remember. My guess is they will move as quickly as possible to get the demolition done, get structural engineers to look at the garage and whether it can be saved, and get these back under construction. That they have a local partner like Humphreys gives me more confidence that this will be a momentary hiccup.

[BoulderSooner]

^

I could not disagree with you more.

When I was in my 20's I would have lived there in a heartbeat, and that was long before they added all the great places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods and about 30 restaurants and bars, plus tons of great shopping.

Besides downtown, I would rate this location as the best in all of OKC for someone looking for an apartment. Chisholm Creek is now adding their second big complex and it doesn't have half of what this area offers. The similar apartments at University North Park in Norman also have a very high occupancy rate.

all of this plus this is min from downtown ...

also compare living in this location to " the Lincoln at central park" (which is always full) the idea this wouldn't do well is crazy ..

[LocoAko]

^

I could not disagree with you more.

When I was in my 20's I would have lived there in a heartbeat, and that was long before they added all the great places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods and about 30 restaurants and bars, plus tons of great shopping.

Besides downtown, I would rate this location as the best in all of OKC for someone looking for an apartment. Chisholm Creek is now adding their second big complex and it doesn't have half of what this area offers. The similar apartments at University North Park in Norman also have a very high occupancy rate.

Definitely. Plus, while it may be many years away (at best), this has consistently been listed as a commuter rail stop along any line straight into downtown. While downtown and the surrounding environs may be "hip", where else could you feasibly walk to bars, restaurants, gyms, and supermarkets (and potentially your job!), as well as potentially a rail stop straight into downtown? If I were in a different stage of my life I'd definitely consider renting in this area.

[Pete]

This area has always drawn people from all over the metro.

When I was in my 20's, we'd go to The Varsity (which was on the site of these apartments) and before that it was the very popular Michael's Plum. We'd also go to the T-Bar and Mamasitas. I spent more time in this area than anywhere else and that was a long time before Classen Curve and all the other great places.

I remember almost renting a townhouse just north of 6100 Grand.

And there are reasons 6100 Grand within a stone's throw is selling its units for over $1 million; and now getting ready to start on the remaining phases. Also why the homes directly to the south are being demolished and replaced with 2-on-the-lot homes selling around $800K.

It's arguably the best location in all of OKC, including downtown.

[soonergooner]

Agree with Pete, the area is fantastic and visibly advancing. My main contention in the whole thing is that it felt like 5 stories of matchsticks, no way to build quality IMO. Also, while initially went down the arson path, if the ownership is as advertised 66M is a rounding error. I'm

[jedicurt]

I'd be absolutely shocked if the Channel 9 reporting was accurate.

this could be an axiom you could live by

[Pete]

The real question will be if the garage and foundation can be salvaged, or if they have to rip everything up and restart from the beginning.

Regardless, you can expect a significant downtime while all that is evaluated and they work through the insurance process.

And due to that time gap, you can be sure there will be tons more crazy rumors and uninformed opinions.

[jedicurt]

The real question will be if the garage and foundation can be salvaged, or if they have to rip everything up and restart from the beginning.

Regardless, you can expect a significant downtime while all that is evaluated and they work through the insurance process.

And due to that time gap, you can be sure there will be tons more crazy rumors and uninformed opinions.

we were just having this discussion at lunch today at my office. would repairs be faster if they could keep the garage and foundation, or would it actually be faster overall, if they just have to rip it all out and start from scratch. i don't know how much damage would be done and have to be repaired, etc, if they were able to keep that and have to reattach everything again

[Pete]

^

They will have to perform detailed evaluations to assess the garage and foundation.

But even though both are concrete, they also contain steel and in the case of the foundation, all types of plumbing and electrical conduit.

As fierce as that fire was, I'd be surprised if they'll be able to salvage anything. And the biggest bummer in all this is that this site will be a crater for some time before things start to move forward again.

[soonergooner]

Rebuilding with the original plan would surely save a bit of time. Would there be problems getting approval from the city?

[Timshel]

Even with what will assuredly be a long delay, my money is still on this wreckage being cleaned up before the burned out church at 30th and Hudson.

[DelCamino]

.........When I was in my 20's, we'd go to The Varsity (which was on the site of these apartments) and before that it was the very popular Michael's Plum. We'd also go to the T-Bar and Mamasitas..........

I think I still have a matchbook from Michael's Plum around the house somewhere.

[SEMIweather]

Even with what will assuredly be a long delay, my money is still on this wreckage being cleaned up before the burned out church at 30th and Hudson.

We desperately need someone to dispose of a “sex couch” on the site of this wreckage as well, that way it can be a true peer to that 30th & Hudson church.

[jn1780]

My guess is that there are enough connected folks on this forum that can get to the bottom of this. I'm curious as to the sourcing of the television station story.

Autocorrect must have taken the reporter to a different website instead of okctalk.com. Rookie mistake.

[jn1780]

I would suggest it seems inaccurate. TV news “event” coverage, such as this, requires a higher volume of talk to accompany the riveting video. Complex issues don’t get the time on air or depth of verification they should. The water added weight to a fire damaged structure that would have held up otherwise.

Seems to me that the massive apartment fires we hear about are always at nearly completed buildings. I think a big factor is the sprinkler systems can’t be working until the risk of freezing is eliminated (via working HVAC, which appears to be about the last item done) . I don’t recall ever hearing about these type fires happening in occupied complexes.

Yeah, the weight of the water had little to do with the roof collapsing.

And pretty good chance one of those AC units started the fire. I mean there was not a lot up there on the roof besides those units.

[aDark]

...

As to eDark's comments: who says they were targeting 20-somethings as their primary resident? In other big cities, some people prefer to rent. If I lived alone, I may choose to rent. Pretty sure I would trade a big or even medium-sized house for a property where I could walk to Whole Foods, Flip's, Classen Curve, and Nichols Hills Plaza. Those kinds of amenities are very attractive to people in their thirties and up. Many more mature adults would prefer apartment living but wouldn't want to live in a building populated by young folks just graduating college, as many properties are in OKC.

...

I agree with you. If the target renter is 40+ years and up, then this is a fantastic spot for apartments. I would never suggest that the Whole Foods and other surrounding services are anything less than stellar. And if that was the Canton's objective then I'm surprised we are seeing reports that it wasn't receiving significant interest from renters to be.

Statistics do show that renters, especially apartment renters, skew young - and I'm not just pulling that out of a hat to be argumentative. And please know, I'm not a real estate developer and I don't claim to be anything more than someone with an uneducated opinion!

My belief is that most renters in OKC skew towards young millennials and gen Z folks. Unlike larger metros, the cost of living is cheap here and the barrier to become a home owner is low. Which would support the theory that apartment seekers in OKC are even younger than in other areas.

That generation just doesn't hang out in the Nichols Hills area, of today. Anecdotally, the only time I see 25-year-olds out that way is shopping at LuluLemon. Even then, they're probably only there to return an item that didn't fit - as they order everything online.

I keep seeing comments from other posters of how great this area was and all these cool former bars. It's not that anymore. If you're under 30, the hangout is uptown, midtown, plaza, paseo, bricktown, Western (kinda), Chisolm, Edmond main street, etc. Those densely packed areas with amazing food and beverage options didn't exist back in the 80s and 90s when you were bar crawling near Classen Curve.

Personally, I love getting dinner at Hutch or cocktails at The Ellison. I'm not suggesting there aren't plenty of options. Just that the options that are there are too pricey for young people and so young people didn't want to live a the Canton.

Again, I don't know jack I'm just hypothesizing here.

[shawnw]

And the biggest bummer in all this is that this site will be a crater for some time before things start to move forward again.

At work it took us 18 months of mediation to resolve a 107K insurance claim on our roof. I can only imagine how long it might take to get checks cut on 60+ million...