Oklahoma County Sheriff’s Office

[Plutonic Panda]

A non-political thread to discuss events and happenings in the department. They are getting body cameras for the first time.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/ocso-g...r-body-cameras

[Brett]

Oklahoma County Sheriff's Office is the correct name.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ thanks for the correction. If the mods see it maybe they can change the name if they have time.

[Downwind17]

Coming soon…a long awaited and sorely-needed fleet upgrade.

[catch22]

Is that sarcasm? What is wrong with the existing cruisers? I am all for fleet renewal but what is better about this? They do seem more intimidating which seems to be the trend in law enforcement.

[Downwind17]

Is that sarcasm? What is wrong with the existing cruisers? I am all for fleet renewal but what is better about this? They do seem more intimidating which seems to be the trend in law enforcement.

Nope, no sarcasm. Just the first several of 47 new cruisers purchased with CARES act money. These will mostly replace a fleet whose average mileage is north of 150,000 miles and racking up thousands each month in repairs. As for the intimidation factor, OCSO has had black cruisers since 1997, so not sure what to say about that. I would assume any law enforcement vehicle is (and should be) intimidating to someone breaking the law.

[Plutonic Panda]

They should be not intimidating. No one breaking the law is going to think hmmmm those police cruisers are pretty intimidating maybe we shouldn’t do this. They should be brightly colored like European police cars to easily be identified. Nonetheless these look cool. Are these the RST or Z71? Those are badass cars. I’ve been looking getting one of those or a new Dodge Ram(maybe a Tacoma) for camping.

[oklip955]

Hopefully no one will take this as political, its fact. They are one of the the few law enforcement agencies in our state that does not participate in any state pension system. They just go left out and only have social security. When members "retire" its only to leave and take another job. No retirement pension. Because of the cost to get them caught up, its not do able at this time. I do think many work a number of years then go on to work for other agencies. Sad. These folks put their lives on the line and dont get a pension after 20 yrs. I've talked with a few of them so how I know about this. By the way, I am a retired firefighter and so have my state pension and yes its better then just ss. Why is this important, well after many years of hard wear and tear on your body, many need to retire before age 66 1/2.

[HangryHippo]

Hopefully no one will take this as political, its fact. They are one of the the few law enforcement agencies in our state that does not participate in any state pension system. They just go left out and only have social security. When members "retire" its only to leave and take another job. No retirement pension. Because of the cost to get them caught up, its not do able at this time. I do think many work a number of years then go on to work for other agencies. Sad. These folks put their lives on the line and dont get a pension after 20 yrs. I've talked with a few of them so how I know about this. By the way, I am a retired firefighter and so have my state pension and yes its better then just ss. Why is this important, well after many years of hard wear and tear on your body, many need to retire before age 66 1/2.

With all due respect, so? Hardly anyone gets a pension anymore. And many worked for one to have it taken away.

[Swake]

With all due respect, so? Hardly anyone gets a pension anymore. And many worked for one to have it taken away.

Pensions may be rare these days, but almost all employers provide a 401k or something similar, does the Oklahoma County Sheriff not do so?

[oklip955]

Pensions may be rare these days, but almost all employers provide a 401k or something similar, does the Oklahoma County Sheriff not do so?

Nope just ss. Most public employees have a pension. In my case mine is in place of ss. With firefighters most cannot work much past 50. Its a job that takes its toll on your body. Many of those I worked with had to retire due to injuries and some cannot go back into the work force due to their injuries. I am one of the luckier ones. At age 50 I had to retire. too hard to keep up with the job. Now I have knee issues. Many younger have had to retire due to knee, or back issues. With law enforcement you cannot ask a guy at age 60 to deal with 20 or 30 somethings that will fight you. Also go look at the number of cops who are getting shot and killed lately. Its getting harder in a lot of cities to attract the best to fill the positions of those retiring.

[oklip955]

Also the issue with 401 pensions for public safety is what happens when someone in their 20 or 30s with just a few years on the job gets disabled? Ok now that 50 or 100K in a 401k is not going to go far. Also consider the fact that a lot of public safety positions dont pay alot. Alot of cops work on days off doing security for banks etc. Take that away and just leave ss and its not a good situation. This is why we have the pensions that we do.

[Swake]

A few points here:
Being a cop is no longer a low pay job at all. That's simply not true. I know cops that with overtime and part time security jobs make six figures. Firefighters are not low pay either. My step-brother-inlaw? (is that a thing?) just retired from TFD at about 55. Now he has a side business doing security systems on his off days but he does quite well. While I don't know what his salary was he and his wife drive new Mercedes and BMWs respectively and his house is worth much closer to a million dollars than half a million. And his wife doesn't work.

A 401k is not intended for take care of people disabled on the job. Workmans comp I know is not great in Oklahoma, but that is intended for the disabled and is paid by the employer. Most employers also provide short and long term disability insurance for people in those situations.

Last, I don't want any cop injured or killed, but really, being a cop is not a particularly dangerous job compared to others. And this is a real problem for me, cops complain about the dangers, but then police unions fight tooth and nail against vaccine mandates for cops while Covid is killing more officers than are killed on the job. I don't know about firefighters and vaccines, but my step-brother-in-law is an anti-vaccer and now had Covid twice. One of the times he was really quite sick. Still no jab for him.

[Bill Robertson]

Nope, no sarcasm. Just the first several of 47 new cruisers purchased with CARES act money. These will mostly replace a fleet whose average mileage is north of 150,000 miles and racking up thousands each month in repairs. As for the intimidation factor, OCSO has had black cruisers since 1997, so not sure what to say about that. I would assume any law enforcement vehicle is (and should be) intimidating to someone breaking the law.

150,000 miles? OKCPD still has a number of the old black & white Ford Crown Victorias in it's fleet that probably have many times that.

[oklip955]

First, not all depts are low pay. Some of the smaller ones are and the OK Sheriff dept is one of them. I am a retired paid firefighter so I can speak about pensions. I can say that when I started on my dept pay was very low. Yes I had to work a second job to just pay the bills. No I was not living high on the hog. I had a 700 sq ft house and did not drive a fancy car, I drove a basic small pickup. With that I still had to work part time jobs to just pay the usual bills. Mortgage, truck and no just to keep the older truck running, utilities. I was just starting off in life and no I just had the cheapest of everything and only the basics to get by. I worked everything from waiting tables to doing basic construction labor. Yes wages were that low. My beef is that Okla county Sheriff dept does not have anything but ss. No 401 K no state pensions. Talk about long term and short term, great if you can go back to duty but some cannot due to injuries on the job. Understand that the level of physical fitness is not the same as most jobs.

[oklip955]

By the way I am not driving a fancy car or truck or have a big fancy house. I drive a 7 yo small economy truck and live in a 1200 sq ft house. When I bought my place it was in the wrong school district and the land was cheap. I live ok but not fancy by any means. I am just happy to have what I have.

[Swake]

First, not all depts are low pay. Some of the smaller ones are and the OK Sheriff dept is one of them. I am a retired paid firefighter so I can speak about pensions. I can say that when I started on my dept pay was very low. Yes I had to work a second job to just pay the bills. No I was not living high on the hog. I had a 700 sq ft house and did not drive a fancy car, I drove a basic small pickup. With that I still had to work part time jobs to just pay the usual bills. Mortgage, truck and no just to keep the older truck running, utilities. I was just starting off in life and no I just had the cheapest of everything and only the basics to get by. I worked everything from waiting tables to doing basic construction labor. Yes wages were that low. My beef is that Okla county Sheriff dept does not have anything but ss. No 401 K no state pensions. Talk about long term and short term, great if you can go back to duty but some cannot due to injuries on the job. Understand that the level of physical fitness is not the same as most jobs.

Long term disability insurance is for people that cannot go back to the job at all.

This is from the Oklahoma County website, they offer employees a 401a retirement plan that the county funds and a 457 plan the employee funds.

Retirement, Life Insurance, & Savings
Flexible Spending Accounts & Dependent Child Care Accounts
These tax saving accounts are offered through Mutual Assurance Administrators. You can contact the FSA department at 405-848-1975. You can also manage your account online.

Employee Defined Contribution Retirement System 401(a)
Beginning on the first day following 60 days of employment as a full-time employee, Oklahoma County contributes 12% into a retirement account managed by InvesTrust. Employees hired after November 1, 2005 will be fully vested after 5 years of service. To be eligible for retirement, employees hired before January 1, 2005, must meet the rule of 60 (age plus years of service).

Employees hired after January 1, 2005 must meet the rule of 75 (age plus years of service) to be eligible to retire and continue retiree health benefits. Employees hired after January 1, 2005 can retiree once they meet the rule of 60 (age plus years of service) but, are unable to elect retiree health coverage. Manage your Oklahoma County provided Retirement account, access forms, create reports and manage loan information using the online portal. Or call InvesTrust at 405-843-7177.

457 Retirement Accounts
These are accounts that only employees make contributions to. The County offers 457 plans with InvesTrust, Hartford, and Nationwide.

County Provided Life & AD&D Insurance
This benefit is provided at no cost to employees. The coverage is 1.5 times your annual salary up to $100,000. There is an additional benefit available for accidental death or dismemberment.

Mutual of Omaha
Additional Voluntary Term Life and AD&D Insurance
County Provided Life and AD&D Insurance
Long Term Disability Insurance
Short Term Disability Insurance
Colonial Life
Accident Insurance
Additional Term-Life Insurance
Cancer Insurance
Short Term Disability Insurance
Hospital Intensive Care Insurance

https://www.oklahomacounty.org/Depar...%20&%20Savings
So they do have retirement plans with short and long term disability.

Oklahoma County has no jobs open (which tells me the pay is ok) but Tulsa County does and a Deputy II job is open with starting base pay at $43,572 a year, I assume pay for Tulsa and OK is about the same. And the Tulsa job only requires 60 hours of college. No degree. So with OT that deputy is going to start at $50k.

[fortpatches]

Long term disability insurance is for people that cannot go back to the job at all.

Generally agree with your post, but Long Term Disability is generally scammy. Nearly all policies have a clause that after two years you are removed if your disability is "caused or contributed to by mental health impairments." So, after 2 years on disability, if you have depression, they will try to take it away.

Also, nearly all policies have clauses that require you to apply for SSDI. Then, if you are approved for SSDI, they will say that their standard is different, and will make their own determination whether you are disabled, but if you are denies SSDI, they will accept the SSDI decision and deny your claim. And, if you are approved for SSDI, they will lower your LTD payments to the minimum. Something like $50/mo. So, LTD payments - SSDI payments is what you will get, or the minimum, whichever is greater.

[Swake]

Generally agree with your post, but Long Term Disability is generally scammy. Nearly all policies have a clause that after two years you are removed if your disability is "caused or contributed to by mental health impairments." So, after 2 years on disability, if you have depression, they will try to take it away.

Also, nearly all policies have clauses that require you to apply for SSDI. Then, if you are approved for SSDI, they will say that their standard is different, and will make their own determination whether you are disabled, but if you are denies SSDI, they will accept the SSDI decision and deny your claim. And, if you are approved for SSDI, they will lower your LTD payments to the minimum. Something like $50/mo. So, LTD payments - SSDI payments is what you will get, or the minimum, whichever is greater.

It's been a long time but I have had employees go out on long term disability. My company, and I think it's still this way, in short term you remain an employee but on leave with benefits. Short term pays somewhere around 70% of that employees income but since it is an insurance payment it's not taxed. The intention is that the employee ends up at about 90% of previous post tax income. Employees in this status do not have to pay insurance matches. I had a boss remain on short term for most of a year with cancer, but he came back after his illness and did not go long term.

Once an employee goes long term, as in you cannot come back and perform your job, the employee is separated (let go). Long term disability pay is only 50 or 55% of the employees previous post tax income and benefits end at this time. The idea is that SSDI+long term insurance equals the 90% post tax income that the employee was getting on short term and that Medicare will then take on the medial coverage. This coverage lasts until the now former employee hits retirement age or their health improves.

I haven't had anyone do this for mental health reasons. It's been years, but IIRC one was a heart attack, one was COPD and the third was a brown recluse bite, at work, that ended up almost killing the person.

[fortpatches]

This will be my last comment about this on this thread to not derail the convo. I used to work in ERISA law (Employee Retirement Income Security Act - the law governing employee benefits) and disability law and handled a few hundred cases. You almost always cannot combine SSDI and Long term. Long term will subtract SSDI from their payments and you are usually left with the ~$50 monthly minimum payment.

Whether you are considered an employee on long term disability will depend on the specific plan policy. In some cases, you are still considered an employee and entitled to employee benefits. I got a client $250k by appealing her husband's long term disability denial - When he was denied and did not return to work, he was no longer considered employed and not entitled to employee benefits. By appealing that decision, we got the insurance company to agree he should have been approved, so he would still be considered employed and entitled to the employee benefits - including his life insurance policy funded by the business. Since he had passed away, his spouse was entitled to the life insurance he paid for - a $250k policy (plus a few grand of back benefits in LTD benefits).

And I do not mean taking long term for Mental Health reasons. That is not what the policy is about - it is about whether your disability is contributed to or caused by mental health impairments - so if you get depression from not being able to work (as in you did not have depression, but you become depressed because the injury prevents you from working) they will look at it and consider whether it contributes to (has some effect on) your ability to work. It is an easy out for the insurance companies to cancel coverage after 18mo - 2 years. (Unless you pay extra for a specific policy rider).

But again, unless you pay extra for a very specific insurance rider, SSDI and Long term will not combine. Having an SSDI offset is the standard for Long Term Disability policies without specifically requesting a rider for different coverage.

[Jersey Boss]

As far as long term goes. Okahoma also has the Multi Injury Trust Fund for those folks who are permamently and fully disabled. This program takes into account all injuries the individual has suffered over their lifetime both work and non work related. The award lasts for 15 years or age 65 whichever comes last.

[Downwind17]

The few remaining Crown Vics still in service are in their last days with the department. Since the early 2000s, OCPD's vehicle replacement program retires vehicles once they hit a certain mileage. The program is courtesy of a dedicated public safety sales tax. You can drive past the city maintenance facility on S. Portland and you will see all of the new Ford Police Interceptor Utilities (Explorers) awaiting upfitting. The county needs a similar program, but at least they were able to take advantage of the CARES money.

[Downwind17]

"150,000 miles? OKCPD still has a number of the old black & white Ford Crown Victorias in it's fleet that probably have many times that."


The few remaining Crown Vics still in service are in their last days with the department. Since the early 2000s, OCPD's vehicle replacement program retires vehicles once they hit a certain mileage. The program is courtesy of a dedicated public safety sales tax. You can drive past the city maintenance facility on S. Portland and you will see all of the new Ford Police Interceptor Utilities (Explorers) awaiting upfitting. The county needs a similar program, but at least they were able to take advantage of the CARES money.