OKC Regional Transit System

[HOT ROD]

This is a great first, solid step.

Now what will really make transit a success - we need to stop saying it's for the "working class". This is one of my big beefs with Slackmeyer and his otherwise nice articles is he always has to segment or segregate things into an us vs them scenario; makes me think he's promoting the idea to get the 'low' and 'working class' into transit options so the upper and rich can drive in less traffic.

Transit is NOT just for the working class, it is for the entire community. Its a service just like Will Rogers World Airport, Lake Hefner, Wellness Center or Scissortail Park - it's a civic infrasture that happens to help folks navigate. Now we don't go walking around saying those other services are JUST for a segment of folks now do we? We need to promote transit as a way to capitalize on the success of our city. Take transit into town instead of parking. Take transit to work. Take transit to shop.

It needs to be everybody, otherwise - we already have a system for the working class. We need a 21st Century transit network for the city/region.

I understand (and hope) that highlighting transit options for the working class shows OKC is a modern city. But we need more than JUST the working class to use it. We need soccer moms, kids, students, office workers, tourists, executives - anybody and everybody to use and patronize the system for transit in OKC to be a success.

[HOT ROD]

Also to reiterate - I wouldn't do the WRWA train unless is rapid transit. You can't have that type of train stop here there and everywhere, implement local bus to the airport and FAA for that (and make it run 24/7 so employees can use it).

In all honesty, I don't think OKC has the need for a rail line to WRWA. I'd start with express bus to/from downtown particularly during the rush and day times AND have a local bus to/from downtown to WRWA terminal and the FAA campus. Build that ridership THEN start thinking about an express train to/from downtown.

Peer cities (and larger) had bus to the airport LONG before they got rail. Ask Seattle (just got Link light rail a few years ago, still also has some local bus), Denver (long had bus just got rail), Portland (sort of an exception but still had bus long before rail). New Orleans, Memphis, Indy, and Milwaukee still don't have rail but do have bus to their airport that's USED.

Nice to see it on OKC's map but let's not kid ourselves that a train to WRWA is a priority when we dont even have a bus (let alone express bus) currently. ..

[shawnw]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...kc/7333394002/

The four corridors identified in the plan and OK'd for further study and eventual implementation are:

• The North-South Corridor connecting Edmond, Oklahoma City, Moore and Norman.

• The East Corridor from Tinker Air Force Base through Midwest City and Del City to downtown.

• The West Corridor from the Yukon area to downtown and serving fast-growing suburban neighborhoods in western Oklahoma County and Canadian County.

• The Airport Corridor from Will Rogers World Airport to downtown.

[unfundedrick]

https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/pol...Transit5_18_21

[shawnw]

Plans advancing for a proposed passenger rail to link OKC with surrounding towns and cities
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...es/8035633002/

[catch22]

Promising update. That would be tremendous to have BNSF operate the line. They operate the Chicago Metra line. It would definitely allow for a seamless operation on their road.

[shawnw]

The old study, she said, assumed more stations than what will likely be needed. And the authority has thrown out an assumption that a streetcar similar to the one downtown would be the best option for linking downtown and Tinker Air Force Base for an east route.

...Kimley Horn is starting over with studies of the east corridor with options being either a light rail or bus rapid transit.

Unlike the other corridors, the east corridor does not provide an existing freight or passenger rail that can be shared by a commuter service so anything along that corridor likely will be built from scratch.

That bit was surprising to me.

[BoulderSooner]

That bit was surprising to me.

that is really a miss characterization of what the east line was supposed to be

it was "rapid street car" using the existing rail (unused) rail corridor which is basically a light rail vehicle ..

[shawnw]

Right, agree, that was the surprise for me.

[Plutonic Panda]

Big update to ACOGs long range plan gets finalized with a forum tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/okcchamber/statu...806304266?s=21

Edit: actually I think it’s today as the chamber Twitter is giving live updates.

[Plutonic Panda]

They’re talking about the dedicated transit funding tax so maybe they’ll reveal a plan.

[shawnw]

In what seems like terrible news, MWC is pulling out of the RTA

https://www.centraloklahomaweeklies....ion-authority/

The mayor of MWC is completely wrong about it not benefitting Tinker AFB IMO. Lots of service members live in my building. They could benefit.

“You can’t just drop people off at the main gate. It ticks me off that Tinker has intentionally or unintentionally not been at the table,” Dukes said. “To exclude the largest employer in the state out of something like this is crazy.”

As far as this quote goes, it's entirely possible the RTA reached out and were simply ignored. I tried to get people on the phone regarding transit to both Tinker and MMAC when I worked at those places and it was mostly crickets. I got someone at MMAC to tell me there was just no interest in it, but I doubt they did any kind of employee survey.

My take about dropping them off at the main gate is... Tinker has a circulator bus on-base, that's an air force run thing. Get them to tweak that route to pick up folks. I know it would involve more than that, but there are building blocks to work with is all I'm saying.

[Plutonic Panda]

Can the RTA still build rail through the city?

Honestly not the biggest problem. The three biggest cities Edmond, OKC, and Norman should be focused on first.

Edit: I also don't understand the Mayors position here. Even if he feels as if the current plan won't serve Tinker adequately why pull out of the whole thing altogether?

[David]

Smells like an excuse.

[Jersey Boss]

Can the RTA still build rail through the city?

Honestly not the biggest problem. The three biggest cities Edmond, OKC, and Norman should be focused on first.

Edit: I also don't understand the Mayors position here. Even if he feels as if the current plan won't serve Tinker adequately why pull out of the whole thing altogether?

Politics with some monied interests threatened is my guess.

[HangryHippo]

Smells like an excuse.

Correct.

[catch22]

I mean what did they expect? Run the train into the base? Have a full security sweep every time it goes on base?

[Urbanized]

Sounds almost like he was suggesting the RTA should also fund the separate shuttle system on-base. But we probably aren’t hearing the full story.

[shawnw]

Here's an idea, how about MWC chip in and fund the shuttle instead of backing out of an obligation!

[fortpatches]

Here's an idea, how about MWC chip in and fund the shuttle instead of backing out of an obligation!

Or set it up that if they rejoin in the future they have to back pay for it. So they can't just "wait and see" until it will benefit them (once the other cities have paid into the system to create everything).


I generally don't like the idea of any transit system using BNSF rail lines for anything intra-metro unless the lines are for the exclusive use of the metro.
On passenger rail lines, my understanding of one reason everything is so slow is that passenger rail can only travel as fast as the freight rail. Since the freight companies own the lines, they end up with priority / right-of-way, thus freight trains don't have to move over for passenger trains. Since passenger trains are interspersed between freight trains and operate on the same tracks, they can neither speed up nor slow down or they would interfere with freight.

[Plutonic Panda]

Meh, I don’t think we should punish them for pulling out. If I was a citizen I’d be pissed though.

[Zuplar]

Or set it up that if they rejoin in the future they have to back pay for it. So they can't just "wait and see" until it will benefit them (once the other cities have paid into the system to create everything).


I generally don't like the idea of any transit system using BNSF rail lines for anything intra-metro unless the lines are for the exclusive use of the metro.
On passenger rail lines, my understanding of one reason everything is so slow is that passenger rail can only travel as fast as the freight rail. Since the freight companies own the lines, they end up with priority / right-of-way, thus freight trains don't have to move over for passenger trains. Since passenger trains are interspersed between freight trains and operate on the same tracks, they can neither speed up nor slow down or they would interfere with freight.

Honestly, if whoever that wants to do passenger rail doesn't build their own, it's never going to be a very viable option. Like you said BNSF is always going to dictate what goes on on their rails, and if you look at the state of logistics and freight transportation, rail is set to increase how much it's shipping. There are also things to consider like precision scheduled railroading (PSR) that's allowing consists to be longer than ever, I got to think that's going to negatively effect passenger rail as well.

[catch22]

I believe the RTA wants to pay BNSF to operate the trains on their rails. If that is the case there is very little to worry about with being held up by freight. The railroads only language is dollars and if they are being paid to operate the service it will operate at a very high priority. What they give low priority to is trackage rights trains - other companies and Amtrak. Those pay very little and contribute nothing to their bottom line so they get the lowest priority of anything.

Side note: BNSF does not operate under precision railroading they are one of the last hold outs.

[Plutonic Panda]

Not specifically OKC but a nice article about mass transit systems opening/UC around the world: https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...nned-for-2022/

[LakeEffect]

I believe the RTA wants to pay BNSF to operate the trains on their rails. If that is the case there is very little to worry about with being held up by freight. The railroads only language is dollars and if they are being paid to operate the service it will operate at a very high priority. What they give low priority to is trackage rights trains - other companies and Amtrak. Those pay very little and contribute nothing to their bottom line so they get the lowest priority of anything.

Side note: BNSF does not operate under precision railroading they are one of the last hold outs.

Would be similar to the BNSF portion of Chicago's Metra service then...? https://metra.com/bnsf