OKCPS - no buses anymore?

[TheTravellers]

So we got caught in Taft letting out yesterday, and what a cluster.... Dozens, if not a couple of hundred cars lined up in the parking lot of the stadium/school, along with cars in all the other lots, all waiting to pick kids up, nobody could get in or out of Walgreens, cop car had a lane blocked off, just insane. Have seen similar to that at other schools, and am wondering - is busing not happening anymore? Or to a much much lesser degree than it used to? We don't have kids, so we have no first-hand experience of schools nowadays.

When I was in K-12, I lived around NW 63rd/May, walked to my local elementary school, got bused to Longfellow 5th grade center over on Lincoln, got bused to Hoover Middle, then got bused for 9th/10th grade to Northeast High (drove for the last two years). Seems like *tons* of kids get dropped off/picked up nowadays, and a few walk, and maybe a few get bused, but wow, what an incredible waste of time for parents to spend picking up/dropping off, and it screws traffic up soooooo badly, just bizarre that's how things are now.

[Dob Hooligan]

1. The cross town busing to achieve racial integration and balance in schools is no longer done.

2. The big traffic cluster you got caught in lasts about 20 minutes in the morning and same in the afternoon. It is actually a pretty efficient system.

3. Society is a much more scared place than it was when you and I were young. No responsible parent would let their child walk more than a couple blocks to or from school today.

4. I think neighborhood buses still run, but participation is voluntary and many parents prefer to drive their kids.

[SouthSide]

Fewer and fewer parents will allow their children to walk to and fro school. Ten years ago i lived on the same street as OKC elementary school with a middle school a block away. Parents would start lining up 20-30 minutes before school let; parking along both sides of the street. Oftentimes blocking our driveway and even parking on our drive. With cars parked on both sides, the middle of the road is the only way for cars to get through and yet parents would stop blocking the street for 10-15 minutes waiting for their kids. It is hazardous for kids and people who live the area as emergency vehicles would be seriously delayed.

[Jersey Boss]

Back in my day kids were free range and chickens were cooped inside.

[Bill Robertson]

Man things have changed. I lived a half mile from grade school. A half dozen kids lived on the same block. We walked to school as a group. And the whole group, boys and girls, went home most days via an old fashioned creek. Mud, rocks, broken glass, old tires, trash, who knew what. Then Jr High was two miles away. Same group rode our bicycles together. High school was a mile and a half away. Same group rode bicycles there until we all turned 16 at different times and started driving. That finally kinda broke the group up./

[Edmond Hausfrau]

So we got caught in Taft letting out yesterday, and what a cluster.... Dozens, if not a couple of hundred cars lined up in the parking lot of the stadium/school, along with cars in all the other lots, all waiting to pick kids up, nobody could get in or out of Walgreens, cop car had a lane blocked off, just insane. Have seen similar to that at other schools, and am wondering - is busing not happening anymore? Or to a much much lesser degree than it used to? We don't have kids, so we have no first-hand experience of schools nowadays.

When I was in K-12, I lived around NW 63rd/May, walked to my local elementary school, got bused to Longfellow 5th grade center over on Lincoln, got bused to Hoover Middle, then got bused for 9th/10th grade to Northeast High (drove for the last two years). Seems like *tons* of kids get dropped off/picked up nowadays, and a few walk, and maybe a few get bused, but wow, what an incredible waste of time for parents to spend picking up/dropping off, and it screws traffic up soooooo badly, just bizarre that's how things are now.

Depending on what yrs you went to NEHS, and given that address, we're either classmates or we dated.

[HangryHippo]

One factor is the shortage of school bus drivers.

[TheTravellers]

Depending on what yrs you went to NEHS, and given that address, we're either classmates or we dated.

Probably didn't date - I didn't do that kind of thing in HS, I was a Freak *and* a Geek, lol, went there from 79-83.

[GoGators]

These long lines at schools are a problem everywhere not just okc. Schools just aren’t designed to be walked/biked to anymore. It’s simply a design failure. No one is going to let their child walk or bike to school when they have to cross 8 lanes of traffic every block and have to walk in the dirt because sidewalks don’t exist. I can’t even imagine a 12 year old trying to bike down May Ave to get to Taft.

This tweet pretty much sums up the “why don’t young people walk to school anymore” question.

https://twitter.com/officialmitchll/...352135175?s=21

[dankrutka]

I saw a state along the lines that 50 years ago 70% of children walked/biked to school and that's down to 10-15% today. It's a combination of building society around cars and fearful helicopter parenting (kids are safer today than at any recent time).

[TheTravellers]

These long lines at schools are a problem everywhere not just okc. Schools just aren’t designed to be walked/biked to anymore. It’s simply a design failure. No one is going to let their child walk or bike to school when they have to cross 8 lanes of traffic every block and have to walk in the dirt because sidewalks don’t exist. I can’t even imagine a 12 year old trying to bike down May Ave to get to Taft.

This tweet pretty much sums up the “why don’t young people walk to school anymore” question.

https://twitter.com/officialmitchll/...352135175?s=21

Well, Taft is ancient, so it was actually designed to be walked/biked to, and I'm not sure, but I think May has sidewalks along at least one side of it around that area (we had to cross May at NW 65th to get to my elementary school and we did it just fine, but we only crossed it, didn't have to walk on/beside it). But yeah, I can see that side of it. And there are actually some walking/biking to/from Taft, as well as NW Classen (or whatever it's named now), we're about 5 blocks away from NW Classen, but they're definitely in the minority...

[Bill Robertson]

Well, Taft is ancient, so it was actually designed to be walked/biked to, and I'm not sure, but I think May has sidewalks along at least one side of it around that area (we had to cross May at NW 68th to get to my elementary school and we did it just fine, but we only crossed it, didn't have to walk on/beside it). But yeah, I can see that side of it. And there are actually some walking/biking to/from Taft, as well as NW Classen (or whatever it's named now), we're about 5 blocks away from NW Classen, but they're definitely in the minority...

Taft is definitely ancient. It already was when I went there in 72 & 73.

[GoGators]

Well, Taft is ancient, so it was actually designed to be walked/biked to, and I'm not sure, but I think May has sidewalks along at least one side of it around that area (we had to cross May at NW 65th to get to my elementary school and we did it just fine, but we only crossed it, didn't have to walk on/beside it). But yeah, I can see that side of it. And there are actually some walking/biking to/from Taft, as well as NW Classen (or whatever it's named now), we're about 5 blocks away from NW Classen, but they're definitely in the minority...

Yes, Taft was originally built to be walked to but turning May and 23rd into expressways ruined that concept years ago. It’s pretty obvious the city had no intention of anyone walking anywhere when they designed the intersection of 23rd and May, much less children walking to school.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m sorry may and 23rd are expressways!?!? Wtf lololol I would barely call those high capacity arterial streets let alone an expressway.

[GoGators]

I’m sorry may and 23rd are expressways!?!? Wtf lololol I would barely call those high capacity arterial streets let alone an expressway.

I don’t care what semantics you want to use. Calling them high capacity arterial streets doesn’t magically make those streets a safe and comfortable walk for children trying to get to school.

I’m not really trying to argue what is better or worse. I’m just stating that the reason why pick up lines at schools are so crowded and long is because that is the only option the built environment allows.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don’t care what semantics you want to use. Calling them high capacity arterial streets doesn’t magically make those streets a safe and comfortable walk for children trying to get to school.

I’m not really trying to argue what is better or worse. I’m just stating that the reason why pick up lines at schools are so crowded and long is because that is the only option the built environment allows.

I never mentioned anything about pedestrian or road safety. May Ave is in no way an expressway nor is 23rd. Hell, I’d argue you over NWE being an actual expressway.

Expressways generally have few curb cuts, grade separated interchanges at major arterials, and few traffic signals if any.

[GoGators]

I never mentioned anything about pedestrian or road safety. May Ave is in no way an expressway nor is 23rd. Hell, I’d argue you over NWE being an actual expressway.

Expressways generally have few curb cuts, grade separated interchanges at major arterials, and few traffic signals if any.

Right I used misused the term expressway as a general term for high volume high speed high traffic corridor. Probably should have used a different term, what I should have said is that these roads are not friendly for pedestrians and bikes. everyone will arrive to school in a car because that’s how the area is designed.

[Bill Robertson]

Come on. Semantics. The point was they're extremely busy streets. Arguing about a term used so often distracts from the main point.

[TheTravellers]

Yes, Taft was originally built to be walked to but turning May and 23rd into expressways ruined that concept years ago. It’s pretty obvious the city had no intention of anyone walking anywhere when they designed the intersection of 23rd and May, much less children walking to school.

Eh, there are way worse intersections to walk through, but yes, I see your point. However, there were actually 2 different crossings with guards going across May, so at least there's that. I can't remember if we had crossing guards on May and 65th way back when, but I think we did, don't think there was a light there until later.

[GoGators]

Eh, there are way worse intersections to walk through, but yes, I see your point. However, there were actually 2 different crossings with guards going across May, so at least there's that. I can't remember if we had crossing guards on May and 65th way back when, but I think we did, don't think there was a light there until later.

Yes, there are a lot of way worse intersections to walk through. That’s the whole problem.

[Plutonic Panda]

Right I used misused the term expressway as a general term for high volume high speed high traffic corridor. Probably should have used a different term, what I should have said is that these roads are not friendly for pedestrians and bikes. everyone will arrive to school in a car because that’s how the area is designed.

Sidewalks could be widened or set back a tad from the road, better intersections markings, raised crosswalks at key points HAWK signals etc. not sure what else can be done in this area. 4 lanes is warranted no road diets should even be considered.

[Urbanized]

PluPlan, “no road diets should even be considered…” is part of our problem in OKC. Shouldn’t be considered based on what? Actual data? Emerging best practice? Or simply a surrender to - or even love of - car-centric culture?

[Plutonic Panda]

Right let’s just narrow may Ave a critical N-S road to 1 lane each way. That’s always the solution. Yeah no thankfully we have leaders that understand that reducing lanes on may is nonsense.

[Urbanized]

Except that data shows many 4 lane streets can become more efficient and safer FOR THE AUTOMOBILES when converted to three lane with center turn lane. Slower average speed yet shorter travel time (due to no backups in travel lane behind left-turning vehicles).

Crashes go down, pedestrian injuries and deaths go down, sidewalks are wider, bicycle infrastructure can be added. Depending on traffic count it can be better for everyone involved, INCLUDING THE CARS.

Don’t mistake inertia for wisdom.

[T. Jamison]

North May Avenue is probably the most significant retail corridor in OKC not on a highway. It's too late in my opinion to put it on a diet. I'm not a lawyer and could easily be wrong, but I would think one could argue (especially a large corporation) that reducing the size of May could result in an inverse condemnation lawsuit against the city, which could cost more than improving the existing infrastructure for pedestrians.