Oklahoma Laws v. 3.2: The Liquor Law Thread

[BDP]

It follows then that I can and have supplied a number of potential ways in which the selling of cold beer at higher than 3.2 will detrimentally affect others.

The point is that the actions that will detrimentally hurt others or have the potential to hurt others is already illegal under other statutes. Me drinking beer in excess of 3.2 cold does not endanger anyones lives or their liberty and everyone knows it. That's why we have laws against fighting, driving drunk, assault, etc.

The reality is that the 3.2 law never has been and never will be about the safety of others. It was put in place so that people could drink alcohol during prohibition, as 3.2 beer was deemed nonintoxicating.

Most of what I outlined above was simply me being the ying to your devil's advocate yang. Both sides of the debate come out sounding ludicrous, reactionary, and illogical, because the whole debate is based on a ridiculous premise. It is clear that these laws do nothing to accomplish any of the moral or physical well being that some may pretend to argue. All you have to do is look at states alcohol related crimes statistics and compare them to ours. The only difference you will find is that a higher percentage of ours were committed after the consumption of 3.2 beer. The law started as a way to circumnavigate prohibition laws, not create one, and has remained in place as a way to protect and manipulate the alcohol distrubtion market in Oklahoma.

At the end of the day, these laws do not accomplish anything on the moralistic or public well being front. Their only net affect on the community is the limitation of competition and reduced access to goods by the consumer.

[Midtowner]

^ I'll agree with all of that.

[betts]

I'm bumping this. When this was first posted here, there were just over 700 signatures. Now there are 3,800+. If you haven't signed it, and agree with the premise, please do so and forward it on to your friends.

[okclee]

Good bump betts. Okc needs to get the liquor law changed.

[betts]

Only 831 signatures needed to get to 5,000. Has anyone not signed this (if you support it)? Have you sent it to your friends?

[MadMonk]

Up to 4,171 now.

[TStheThird]

I have always been a big proponent of changing our liquor laws. Now that I live in Virginia and will eventually move back to Oklahoma, I am even more adamant that we change these laws. I love being able to buy good beer and wine at the grocery store. Sign...

[okclee]

Just bumping this up, We need to get more signatures.

[betts]

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petition/285966504

Here's the website again.

[metro]

I signed it today

[betts]

OK, am I stupid? Don't groups usually look for volunteers to run petition tables or booths at public events? Why do we need to raise money to get this done? There's a big article in the Gazette about this issue this week, and they said the group felt they needed $120,000 to get enough signatures to get the issue on the ballot. Why?

Oklahoma City (AP) _ A group that wants to legalize the sale of wine and full-strength beer at grocery stores has missed a chance to circulate an initiative petition at the Oklahoma State Fair in Oklahoma City.

A consultant for the group, Larry Wood, says Oklahomans for Modern Laws still plans to file the petition with the Secretary of State, however, Wood says the group will have a booth at the Tulsa State Fair, which begins Sept. 27 and runs through Oct. 7.

Earlier, the organization announced it would circulate the petition at the Oklahoma City Fair, which ended a 10-day run on Sunday. Wood said the group had not raised enough money by the time the Oklahoma City Fair began last week. He says fundraising is looking up with the endorsement of the plan by newspapers around the state.

[Nixon7]

So, we've got to raise $120,000 just to try to catch up with everyone else? Sounds about right...

[okclee]

Only 4,277 signature on this. The goal is 5000, send this link to your friends and family.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petition/285966504

[SouthsideSooner]

This online petition is pretty meaningless.

To accomplish want they want would require a constitutional amendment. The bar for getting that on the ballot is about 180,000 valid signtures collected in a 90 day period. The estimated cost to get this done and survive the first round of legal challenges is about 2 mil.

This group never came close to raising the funds. They were going to get this done at the state fair this year but that didn't happen.

Ironicly, even if this would have happened, you still wouldn't have strong Bud, Miller or Coors in OK. That conflict is a matter of our franchise laws, not our liquor laws..

[Easy180]

This online petition is pretty meaningless.

To accomplish want they want would require a constitutional amendment. The bar for getting that on the ballot is about 180,000 valid signtures collected in a 90 day period. The estimated cost to get this done and survive the first round of legal challenges is about 2 mil.

This group never came close to raising the funds. They were going to get this done at the state fair this year but that didn't happen.

Ironicly, even if this would have happened, you still wouldn't have strong Bud, Miller or Coors in OK. That conflict is a matter of our franchise laws, not our liquor laws..

Way to kill our buzz southside

[okclee]

no kidding , talk about being a downer.

[SouthsideSooner]

Sorry guys and I have to admit I'm biased. I own a liquor store in south OKC.

My compromise would be to allow liquor stores to sell cold product. That law is only one statute and would be much easier to change.

[Nixon7]

What would it take to get 6.0 coors light/bud served at room temp at liquor stores?

[SouthsideSooner]

That would require a change in the franchise law. Right now Oklahoma has many wholesalers and they are all able to carry all products in excess of 3.2%. No one is allowed to have an exclusive, where they are the only ones allowed to sell their products. The major domestics refuse to allow someone else to wholesale their products, so they choose to not sell their strong beer in Oklahoma.

The laws concerning products with an alcohol content of less than 3.2% are different and allow for exclusive franchises.

[SouthsideSooner]

Strong beer is often referred to as "6 point" which is very misleading. Most strong beer is between 4 and 5 percent. Light beers are even lower. "6 point" Bud light, Coors light and Miller lite are 3.4%. The beer companys make more money on the 3.2% products because the way you lower the alcohol level is add water.

Here's a good site listing the alcohol contents of quite a few beers. Take note of the distinction made at the top of the page concerning weight/volume as these are listed by volume and 3.2% is by weight.

Realbeer.com: Beer Alcohol Content And Carbs In Beer

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Here's a good site listing the alcohol contents of quite a few beers. Take note of the distinction made at the top of the page concerning weight/volume as these are listed by volume and 3.2% is by weight.

Realbeer.com: Beer Alcohol Content And Carbs In Beer

O_O

*runs off to buy some Sam Adams Triple Bock*

[betts]

I thought this whole thing was rather lackluster. Instead of getting grassroots support and a whole bunch of volunteers, the organizers thought they needed to raise money first. I sent money, and never even received acknowledgement. No one ever wrote to ask me to volunteer to get signatures. I don't think this will pass until we get a committed group of activists. I think the liquor laws in this state are an embarrassment.

[SouthsideSooner]

I thought this whole thing was rather lackluster. Instead of getting grassroots support and a whole bunch of volunteers, the organizers thought they needed to raise money first. I sent money, and never even received acknowledgement. No one ever wrote to ask me to volunteer to get signatures. I don't think this will pass until we get a committed group of activists. I think the liquor laws in this state are an embarrassment.

Why? Because you can't buy wine at Wal-mart?

Wal-mart being the largest wine retailer in the state would be less embarrassing for you?

You'd be less embarrassed if Maddog 20/20 was available in off brand convenience stores and gas stations?

Is Oklahoma a backwards state because you can't buy wine in grocery stores and convenience stores? You can't buy it those places in New York City or Boston either and it doesn't seem to have held them back much.

[okclee]

^^ I agree , it is hardly anything to be embarrassed by.

Minnesota you can't buy wine in grocery stores and the grocery stores don't sell the stronger beers either.

[betts]

I don't shop at Walmart. Ever. I think it's an embarrassment that we've got the backward laws that we do. They're all related to a fear of alcohol, and while I think one should have a healthy respect for the risks associated with alcohol use, if it's not illegal entirely, I don't see why I cannot buy a bottle of wine in a supermarket. I'd like to have a Whole Foods here, and while alcohol is not the only reason there aren't any here, being able to sell alcohol in grocery stores would make having one here financially less risky. Since we are a small market, we have to do everything right.