Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[Rover]

It does when you look at the amount of major, younger tours that go to Tulsa vs OKC. They have a top 25 arena in the world for ticket sales. OKC does not. Has to be something to why more big-time shows go there.

Please produce any evidence of the difference in acoustics and how it drives bookings and ticket sales for the two. it doesn’t exist. It’s a nice opinion, just not a supported one with facts.

[chssooner]

Please produce any evidence of the difference in acoustics and how it drives bookings and ticket sales for the two. it doesn’t exist. It’s a nice opinion, just not a supported one with facts.

One was designed for a pro sports franchise, the other was built with no intention of a pro franchise, just for concerts and events. Logically, since this is the case, the acoustics would be more in mind at the BOK.

And no matter what, they get 10x the good shows that the Peake does. Sure, the NBA blocks out 41 days a year. What about the other 324? They can work with promoters to come at later or earlier dates in tours than when they are in the area. Hell, Dallas' arena has 2 pro teams, and they get all the good shows to work with them. I get it, Dallas vs OKC, sure. But OKC does not punch in its weight class for big-name concerts at an arena or amphitheater-level.

I would guess some of it is artists prefer the sound at some venues more than others.

[shawnw]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but if all the ice melted tomorrow and the Miami Heat needed a place to play you bet Tulsa would be like, yo, BOK got you... (not that they would get it before places like KC)

[Bellaboo]

'BOK venue will be home to the Tulsa Talons Arena Football team and the Central Hockey League's Tulsa Oilers.'

This was from the pre opening of the BOK in 2008. So yes, sports teams were considered, probably as much as any other types of entertainment.

[chssooner]

'BOK venue will be home to the Tulsa Talons Arena Football team and the Central Hockey League's Tulsa Oilers.'

This was from the pre opening of the BOK in 2008. So yes, sports teams were considered, probably as much as any other types of entertainment.

Meh, not as relevant as building it to try and get an NHL team, like the Ford Center was built for (its ultimate goal). And subsequent renovations have not been built with concertgoers in mind, but only for the NBA team's benefit. These are things to consider, and I think OKC needs to do more to make their arena more concert-friendly. Or maybe it is something I overlook, like crappy arena management compared to the BOK.

[Bellaboo]

Meh, not as relevant as building it to try and get an NHL team, like the Ford Center was built for (its ultimate goal). And subsequent renovations have not been built with concertgoers in mind, but only for the NBA team's benefit. These are things to consider, and I think OKC needs to do more to make their arena more concert-friendly. Or maybe it is something I overlook, like crappy arena management compared to the BOK.

Both BOK and Paycom are managed by the same company, ASM Global, formerly SMG. As far as quality, of course BOK does not have the NBA ready requirements that Paycom has. Shiny building looks does not compare to the guts of a facility. This is why Paycom is getting another 100 million pumped into it with MAPS 4. Maybe the fact that NBA (which is international exposure) dates would require touring groups to work around a nine month schedule might be a deterrent ?

[chssooner]

Both BOK and Paycom are managed by the same company, ASM Global, formerly SMG. As far as quality, of course BOK does not have the NBA ready requirements that Paycom has. Shiny building looks does not compare to the guts of a facility. This is why Paycom is getting another 100 million pumped into it with MAPS 4. Maybe the fact that NBA (which is international exposure) dates would require touring groups to work around a nine month schedule might be a deterrent ?

My thing is, Salt Lake City gets 5x the shows that OKC gets (very, very similar to Tulsa). They have the same things going against them, yet they get those shows that Tulsa gets. And yeah, same company, but a different person manages each arena, and that is where I think the difference is (has been mentioned on here before, as well). OKC can't seem to get a top-notch concert booker on staff, and Tulsa does. Yes, the NBA is amazing for OKC, I am not saying otherwise. But so is getting globally-recognized artists to come through. Tulsa is getting Dua Lipa, an artist-type that OKC never gets (young, hip, similar to the Jonas Brothers and The Weeknd). They always go to Tulsa. This is a problem, in my opinion, and it holds back OKCs music scene from truly shining.

[Bellaboo]

Garth is coming to the Diamond Ballroom in October. lol

I just looked at the BOK schedule.

Sporting events. --- 36. from October through March. Mostly AA Ice Hockey.

Concerts plus re-schedeled concerts are about 8. ? Some of these I'm not sure who they are so maybe 10 total ?

That's not a whole hell of a lot. Way more minor league sports.

[chssooner]

Garth is coming to the Diamond Ballroom in October. lol

He had 7 or 8 shows in Tulsa, and 4 in OKC. So yeah. And you can't even buy tickets to his OKC show.

[Bellaboo]

He had 7 or 8 shows in Tulsa, and 4 in OKC. So yeah. And you can't even buy tickets to his OKC show.

I've seen Garth twice.... Actually know the family, or used to. Went to school with Betsy and JP, which have since passed.

The Diamond is the Dive Bar tour, so probably impossible to get tickets.

[BDP]

Tulsa is getting Dua Lipa, an artist-type that OKC never gets (young, hip, similar to the Jonas Brothers and The Weeknd). They always go to Tulsa. This is a problem, in my opinion, and it holds back OKCs music scene from truly shining.

Never?

The Jonas Brothers played in OKC in 2008.

The OKC arena has hosted plenty of young pop concerts over the years. And many, many of them have played in both OKC and Tulsa. I'm starting to think this is just some sort of selective memory thing.

I don't know how many times this topic has come up and people complain that "so-and-so type acts" that are coming to Tulsa never come to OKC and the exact specific examples they cite have, indeed, actually played in OKC. In fact, A LOT of acts play OKC and Tulsa on different ends of their tours. Just go on Songkick and look up past shows for each venue. It's amazingly similar. Sure there are acts that have never played one of the markets, but it's in no way genre specific.

Maybe about 10 years ago, Tulsa did better with large club / theater touring acts. That was mainly a result of venue and/or promoter difference between the markets, with a special nod to Cain's.

But even that chasm does not exist anymore and there's even a very good argument to be made that OKC has surpassed Tulsa in that segment, in that it's not dependent on one venue. The collective bookings at the Criterion, the Jones, the Tower, the Diamond, the Zoo Amp, and Paycom surly amount to more than the collective bookings at Cain's, the Brady, and BOK.

But the best part, from the concertgoer perspective, is that the two markets are a very fast 90 min apart. In most major markets 90 minutes of travel is still the same market.

Bookers, promoters, and artists (especially at the arena level), are not parsing the acoustics of the venue (they'd never play any arena if they were really adamant about that), or anything else, other than can we maximize our margins, is venue management competent, and does it work with the logistics of the tour. In the case of two very close and amazingly demographically similar markets like Tulsa and OKC, they're going to choose the one that works best with the schedule and maintains their ROI. Just like, on another scale, some play the Forum, some play Irvine and, when it works and is profitable, they play both.

[HOT ROD]

probably cheaper at Tulsa as well, since they have no other tenants.

Im sure they also consider Oklahoma as a market as well and are not going to Tulsa just because they think it is the biggest city. ..

[BG918]

probably cheaper at Tulsa as well, since they have no other tenants.

Im sure they also consider Oklahoma as a market as well and are not going to Tulsa just because they think it is the biggest city. ..

Tulsa draws from NW Arkansas as well which is a metro of 600k less than a 2 hours drive from the BOK Center.

[shawnw]

'BOK venue will be home to the Tulsa Talons Arena Football team and the Central Hockey League's Tulsa Oilers.'

https://twitter.com/mgpeters23/statu...52967173419016

This quote from the new Tulsa Oilers owner cracks me up: “Tulsa is a beautiful city,” he said. “I did not expect it after spending time in Oklahoma City."

[barrettd]

https://twitter.com/mgpeters23/statu...52967173419016

I know there are a LOT of people who much prefer Tulsa to OKC, primarily because they feel Tulsa is so much nicer and more evolved. I have a lot of family in Tulsa, our family visits a few times a year.

I can honestly say I don't get the attraction. I am not a fan of Tulsa. I do like seeing concerts at the Brady, but I would not prefer Tulsa over OKC, especially after the last 30 years or so of growth in OKC. I'm kind of at a loss when someone says something like this, because it just seems uninformed and/or willfully ignorant.

I have nothing against Tulsa, and don't work to denigrate it the way a lot of Tulsans try and denigrate OKC. That's the annoying part.

[bombermwc]

My thing is, Salt Lake City gets 5x the shows that OKC gets (very, very similar to Tulsa). They have the same things going against them, yet they get those shows that Tulsa gets. And yeah, same company, but a different person manages each arena, and that is where I think the difference is (has been mentioned on here before, as well). OKC can't seem to get a top-notch concert booker on staff, and Tulsa does. Yes, the NBA is amazing for OKC, I am not saying otherwise. But so is getting globally-recognized artists to come through. Tulsa is getting Dua Lipa, an artist-type that OKC never gets (young, hip, similar to the Jonas Brothers and The Weeknd). They always go to Tulsa. This is a problem, in my opinion, and it holds back OKCs music scene from truly shining.

Keep in mind that in Utah, SLC is the ONLY option. It's not as though there is a sister city anywhere near them to compete. The airport is the same story. Denver and Vegas are the next closest places and they aren't a little 1.5 hour trip up the turnpike. More like 8. So that's not really a fair apples to apples comparison.

[Bellaboo]

The food scene in OKC blows the food scene in Tulsa away. Not even close.

Now back to topic. lol

[Bellaboo]

https://twitter.com/mgpeters23/statu...52967173419016

Tulsa has some nice scenery, but this new California owner is pumping sunshine to the local crowd.

[BoulderSooner]

tulsans get mad that people in OKC basically don't care about Tulsa ... people in tulsa let you know how much better their city is ..

[5alive]

Steering the convo back to the Paycom Center. Does anyone know if or when the work on the rooftop lighted signage will be under way...

[shawnw]

You'd think it'd have to be VERY soon. Only like two months until the season starts.

[dankrutka]

Having grown up in Tulsa and lived in OKC. 99.9% of people in both cities don't denigrate the other city in the ways people discuss here. Honestly, the thing that keeps it going is these threads where people keep claiming it's happening...

[chssooner]

Having grown up in Tulsa and lived in OKC. 99.9% of people in both cities don't denigrate the other city in the ways people discuss here. Honestly, the thing that keeps it going is these threads where people keep claiming it's happening...

But, of those 99.9%, how many want the other city to succeed at a greater level than their own? That is why I hate that the BOK gets such good concerts.

[Laramie]

Paycom Center opened in 2002; BOK Center opened in 2008:

Recall during the span of 20002 - 2008 prior to the arrival of the NBA and the opening of the BOK Center; Oklahoma City was getting a lot of good reviews as a concert venue.

Prince brings funk to town (Published: Wed, April 7, 2004 12:00 AM): https://www.oklahoman.com/article/12...s-funk-to-town

Other headliners in 2004: Eric Clapton, Van Halen, Rod Stewart & George Strait. These concerts were too big for Civic Center Music Hall & State Fair Arena.

Ford Center, Oklahoma City (US): https://www.myconcertarchive.com/en/venue?id=1528

Have no problem driving to Tulsa for concerts. Tulsa's arena primary has become a good concert venue.

What if the NHL decided it wanted to enter the Tulsa market. BOK Center seats 17,096 for ice hockey. Tulsa & Oklahoma City combined would be considered one TV market boasting 1,308,320 TV households (OKC 755,340/Tulsa 552,980). What would happen to those concerts if an NHL franchise occupied the Tulsa BOK Center.

Can you imagine the NBA in OKC and the NHL in TUL.

.

[Laramie]

But, of those 99.9%, how many want the other city to succeed at a greater level than their own? That is why I hate that the BOK gets such good concerts.

Interesting you mentioned that:

OKC's plans for a new convention center creates worries of greater competition for Tulsa: https://tulsaworld.com/business/okcs...78a5c9970.html

.