Turnpikes getting Highway Numbers

[MWC59]

Turnpikes getting Highway Numbers
Item No. 105 - State Highway System Numbering Revisions – Mr. Swift

a) Removal of the SH-152 Designation between JCT I-44/SH-152 and JCT SH-152/John Kilpatrick TP
b) Addition of a new Designation of I-240 to the above section of SH-152, the John Kilpatrick TP, and
the Kickapoo TP
c) Addition of an I-240 Follow Route on portions of I-44 and I-40
d) Addition of a new Designation of SH-4 to the H.E. Bailey Turnpike – Norman Spur
e) Addition of a new Designation of SH-301 to the Chickasaw Turnpike
f) Addition of a new Designation of SH-312 to the Cimarron Turnpike Spur
g) Addition of a new Designation of SH-375 to the Indian Nation Turnpike

[catch22]

That I-240 designator makes a lot of sense.

Is this a proposal or actually happening?

[jonno]

The original post appears to be in the format typically used for the monthly Transportation Commission meetings. They are usually held on the first Monday of the month which would be next week.

[Plutonic Panda]

I believe August 2nd.

[Scott5114]

According to Google Maps, this new I-240 route, if approved, will be 91 miles in length, which I believe will make it the largest beltway anywhere in the United States. (The largest Interstate beltway is I-275 around Cincinnati, which is 83 miles, and the largest non-Interstate beltway is Houston's Beltway 8, which is 88 miles and, like the proposed I-240, is a mix of toll and free roads.)

[Plutonic Panda]

I will definitely clinch this when/if it’s done. Will be an interesting contrast to drive the full length.

[HOT ROD]

hm, not sure how I feel about this.

I totally agree that Airport Road should get the I-240 designation (long overdue). But I think the Kilpatrick Turnpike should receive a I-44 designation (say I-644), along with Hefner Parkway (say I-344). Kickapoo should be it's own I-40 designation, say I-540.

You'd still have an "outer" loop but my proposed names make sense without taking away from the original meaning of I-240.

[BrettM2]

hm, not sure how I feel about this.

I totally agree that Airport Road should get the I-240 designation (long overdue). But I think the Kilpatrick Turnpike should receive a I-44 designation (say I-644), along with Hefner Parkway (say I-344). Kickapoo should be it's own I-40 designation, say I-540.

You'd still have an "outer" loop but my proposed names make sense without taking away from the original meaning of I-240.

I don't love them co-designating that I-44 strip, but the rest does make sense. I think having four new designations would be a bit overkill.

[Snowman]

I don't love them co-designating that I-44 strip, but the rest does make sense. I think having four new designations would be a bit overkill.

While I am fine with using some on multiple legs, I would prefer at least two designations, so we do not have multiple interchanges between the same major city street and the same interstate designation

[Scott5114]

You'd still have an "outer" loop but my proposed names make sense without taking away from the original meaning of I-240.

The "original meaning" of I-240 included all of what is currently I-44 from the current western terminus of I-240 all the way to the I-35/I-44 junction near Remington. That portion of highway was only designated I-44 in 1982. So if anything, having I-240 be at least a partial loop is closer to its original meaning than what is currently designated I-240.

I totally agree that Airport Road should get the I-240 designation (long overdue). But I think the Kilpatrick Turnpike should receive a I-44 designation (say I-644), along with Hefner Parkway (say I-344). Kickapoo should be it's own I-40 designation, say I-540.

If you have Airport Road be I-240 and give the Kilpatrick a different number, you have a situation where two highway numbers end at each other (or close to ending at each other), which is generally a no-no. Also, it's kind of a bad idea to use x44 numbers in OKC, since the only two-digit interstate in Tulsa is I-44, so that's using up the only numbers Tulsa has access to, while OKC has plenty of x35 and x40 numbers available.

In general, while three-digit Interstate numbers starting with an odd number are spurs from their parent interstate, in general, those that connect to Interstates on both ends usually (but not always) get even numbers, with the odd numbers used for routes that do not connect to an Interstate on one or both ends. So I would expect the Hefner Parkway and Kickapoo Turnpike, were they to get their own numbers, would probably get even first digits like I-644 and I-440.

[mugofbeer]

Will designating these highways with interstate highway numbers open them for more federal funding?

[Scott5114]

Will designating these highways with interstate highway numbers open them for more federal funding?

No. Current funding rules are dependent on whether a route is part of the National Highway System or not, not the signed highway designation. All of the new I-240 that is on free roads is already part of the NHS, so funding will not change. I believe OTA roads are funded solely by tolls collected, so funding won't change for the toll roads either.

What the Interstate shield does get you is branding and an assurance that a road is a freeway built to certain standards. We may start getting more companies from out of town willing to locate along the new I-240 route than they were before when it was just the Kilpatrick Turnpike, the Kickapoo Turnpike, SH-152, etc. That's because a road with an Interstate designation is guaranteed to be a certain level of quality, so many companies base their location decisions on easy access to the Interstate System. Doesn't matter to them that the Kilpatrick Turnpike was Interstate-quality without the shield; if they see the shield they know what kind of road it is without having to do any sort of research, and they know it's connected to a system of similar roads and isn't just a one-off freeway like the one in Ada.

[jerrywall]

I know the chances of this happening are pretty much slim to none, but I'd love to see this be the first step in getting rid of the tolls along all the stretches of what would be this I-240 loop.

[Plutonic Panda]

I know the chances of this happening are pretty much slim to none, but I'd love to see this be the first step in getting rid of the tolls along all the stretches of what would be this I-240 loop.

+10000

[mugofbeer]

Gotta pay off those bonds to do that and they may not even have a prepayment option.

[MagzOK]

I know the chances of this happening are pretty much slim to none, but I'd love to see this be the first step in getting rid of the tolls along all the stretches of what would be this I-240 loop.

Well if that happened the roadways would deteriorate like the rest of the highway system. Atleast OTA keeps their facilities nice.

[macfoucin]

Here's the I-240 route. The others can be found pages 21-25 at https://www.odot.org/tcomm/agendas21...a-202108-r.pdf

***not sure why the image so small

[Plutonic Panda]

Here is the meeting summary for the august commission which talks about the approval of the new numbers:

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/ne...an-for-ma.html

[HOT ROD]

looks like we're trying to FORCE a loop out of a collection of freeways vs. building a purpose built loop.

[Plutonic Panda]

ODOT really needs to build about one or two new freeways in the hole between I-35 and the Kickapoo turnpike. Lots of development happening there with little planning.

[Scott5114]

ODOT really needs to build about one or two new freeways in the hole between I-35 and the Kickapoo turnpike. Lots of development happening there with little planning.

I still contend that the #1 needed freeway corridor improvement (as opposed to spot improvements like interchange overhauls) in the OKC metro is upgrading SH-9 through Norman to a freeway. SH-9 is only going to get more and more traffic as East Norman grows. Second place is SH-9 between Newcastle and Goldsby. Newcastle and Blanchard are growing too and a lot of that traffic commutes to the I-35 corridor, so they end up on SH-9.

It's very frustrating never seeing the SH-9 corridor even appear in long term planning documents, much less more concrete plans to do anything about it. I'm not sure which Oklahoma the ODOT decision-makers live in, but I don't think it's the one I do.

[KHutch66]

I still contend that the #1 needed freeway corridor improvement (as opposed to spot improvements like interchange overhauls) in the OKC metro is upgrading SH-9 through Norman to a freeway. SH-9 is only going to get more and more traffic as East Norman grows. Second place is SH-9 between Newcastle and Goldsby. Newcastle and Blanchard are growing too and a lot of that traffic commutes to the I-35 corridor, so they end up on SH-9.

It's very frustrating never seeing the SH-9 corridor even appear in long term planning documents, much less more concrete plans to do anything about it. I'm not sure which Oklahoma the ODOT decision-makers live in, but I don't think it's the one I do.

I live on SH-9 between Newcastle and Goldsby. The neighborhoods keep growing in this area but I haven't felt that the traffic has been unbearable by any means. Getting onto 35 next to Riverwind can be pretty rough some mornings. SH-9 across east Norman I do agree however needs to be upgraded. I just wonder how the university would feel about it.

[Plutonic Panda]

I still contend that the #1 needed freeway corridor improvement (as opposed to spot improvements like interchange overhauls) in the OKC metro is upgrading SH-9 through Norman to a freeway. SH-9 is only going to get more and more traffic as East Norman grows. Second place is SH-9 between Newcastle and Goldsby. Newcastle and Blanchard are growing too and a lot of that traffic commutes to the I-35 corridor, so they end up on SH-9.

It's very frustrating never seeing the SH-9 corridor even appear in long term planning documents, much less more concrete plans to do anything about it. I'm not sure which Oklahoma the ODOT decision-makers live in, but I don't think it's the one I do.

It’s hard to believe it isn’t even being talked about. I mean at the very least they should do long term planning. We’ll see when ACOG releases it’s 2045 plan in October if they say anything about it. I’d also argue that a loop around Edmond connecting I-35 to SH-74 is needed too or at least ROW preserved.

[Snowman]

It’s hard to believe it isn’t even being talked about. I mean at the very least they should do long term planning. We’ll see when ACOG releases it’s 2045 plan in October if they say anything about it. I’d also argue that a loop around Edmond connecting I-35 to SH-74 is needed too or at least ROW preserved.

It still seems dumb even when ODOT/OTA had expressed interest in the Kilpatrick turnpike extension, and the city still was showing that on their long term plans with incorporating decisions like where to place police and fire stations years it got put on hold, that OKC kept approving housing edition designs that placed homes in the likely path(s), the extension that was just build is at least a half mile longer than it had to be and has more turns because it had to route around multiple editions that did not exist when the juncture with i40 was being constructed. Along with there is around a half mile of wasted road built to interstate standards that was intended to be worked into that expansion.

[Scott5114]

I live on SH-9 between Newcastle and Goldsby. The neighborhoods keep growing in this area but I haven't felt that the traffic has been unbearable by any means. Getting onto 35 next to Riverwind can be pretty rough some mornings. SH-9 across east Norman I do agree however needs to be upgraded. I just wonder how the university would feel about it.

My concern with that stretch of SH-9 is less capacity-related and more safety related—I live in Norman and work in Blanchard and plenty of times I've had to hit the brakes because of someone in front of me suddenly deciding to hang a left at 70 MPH. You could take a page out of MoDOT's book and play around with some superstreet concepts like they've done on Route 13 north of Springfield, but at some point, with the way McClain County is growing, the only solution is going to be either to step down to stoplights like SH-9 in Norman and really feel the pain, or step up to a freeway.

I would be baffled by any opposition from OU to upgrading SH-9, as having a freeway facility directly connecting their campus to the Interstate System would only help them; it'd benefit both commuter students and game day traffic. It's not like it'd negatively impact bike or ped access either, since both of those modes of transport are served by the recent upgrades to Lindsey Street.