Streetcar

[Laramie]

I rode the streetcar from midtown to bricktown the past two weekends, and I don't understand why can't get the SCs closer to 5 minute intervals. It seemed we hit almost every red light. The SC stopped for every stop whether anyone was waiting or needed to get off. We waited 15 minutes for one SC and 9 minutes for another. Will they ever do better integration with the stop lights or add more SCs to the line to speed up the intervals between SC arrivals?

Those are legitimate concerns. City needs to consider making the streetcar free, building up ridership, then look at the possibility of a modest fee a few years down the road.

We need to be patient and realize the juggling act needed to space the streetcar with distance or the metrics of its schedule becomes problematic. That's probably why you see the streetcar stopping at stops where there is no one to pick up.

[shawnw]

I suspect a lot of it is pacing. They try to keep the ~5 cars roughly equally apart vs letting them get bunched up. I've noticed if they need to "slow things down" because of something causing them to bunch up, that they stop more often at unattended stops. All anecdotal observations of course.

[Midtowner]

I suspect a lot of it is pacing. They try to keep the ~5 cars roughly equally apart vs letting them get bunched up. I've noticed if they need to "slow things down" because of something causing them to bunch up, that they stop more often at unattended stops. All anecdotal observations of course.

Right, and they'll stop at the Dewey stop for extended periods of time to space back out again.

[catch22]

I thought the city purchased a traffic light prioritization system on the streetcar trains? Is this not being used, or no longer working?

I really feel the Achilles heel of the streetcar is the meandering route. We should not double down on this meandering system in future expansions. Those proposed expansions are just going to make this system more confusing.

[shawnw]

Signal prioritization is great but if it would cause more issues than solve (e.g. bunching up because blowing all the lights) then I'm sure they just don't end up using it at those times.

You'll never get an argument out of me about this terrible route.

[Anonymous.]

I suspect a lot of it is pacing. They try to keep the ~5 cars roughly equally apart vs letting them get bunched up. I've noticed if they need to "slow things down" because of something causing them to bunch up, that they stop more often at unattended stops. All anecdotal observations of course.

I think this is definitely why they stop at all stops. I have raised this question so many times. WHY THO!?

The streetcars should only stop for spacing in the designated dwelling zones. Forcing ALL passengers to travel slower for literally no reason other than to keep spacing is asinine. The only time you should see streetcars stopping at stops is for unloading and loading.

Stopping at empty stops makes existing passengers see less of a point in using the streetcar in the future. It is detrimental to the SC to not prioritize travel for people on the SC.

[Laramie]

Someone mentioned that Broadway would have been a better streetcar route. The Broadway route should have been given more consideration; who knows how congested that could have been.

[Mott]

Why not add passing tracks at four, or five stations, and run the streetcar both directions? Counterclockwise would stay the same, clockwise would take the siding. And add a switch at the Colcord, so the Downtown route wouldn’t have to go thru Bricktown.

[Anonymous.]

Someone mentioned that Broadway would have been a better streetcar route. The Broadway route should have been given more consideration; who knows how congested that could have been.

This route is still salvageable. But the businesses along Broadway would be rightfully pissed at another round of construction.

IMO, this should have been the route. Double-tracked and center lane. Around 6 miles total of rail. (We currently have just under 5 looped). Then you can expand off of this main route with single lines.

23rd, Broadway, and EK Gaylord are all already wide enough for this.

[AnguisHerba]

Does anyone really think there will be more expansion? I would bet good money that we won't.

It seems that based on the transit plans presented in MAPS 4, the city is more focused on bringing a BRT from downtown to the southside and the eastside in addition to the Classen/NW Expressway BRT already under consideration. If we want those to be more like the streetcar, just switch out the busses for that Chinese autonomous electric train concept vehicle in the future. That way we aren't permanently tied to a route but we still have the "cool" factor of the streetcar vehicles.

[shawnw]

There will probably be expansion but via other funding (e.g. not MAPS). Examples include what was recently proposed for the innovation district (see that thread). Other funding might also mean somewhere down the line via RTA funding.

[3nglnd]

would be quick and cheap(er) to make a few bus routes that looped through some of these proposed paths. It would also allow for some level of real-life study on what works and what needs to be altered.. and then maybe you eventually expand the streetcar into those routes.

Of course then you end up with them being much easier to discontinue (RIP CIRC)

[shawnw]

I know I'm preaching to the choir (and I wish it _would_ work), but wheeled options never work as well as rail options in terms of drawing subsequent investment in an area due to the lack of permanency. But there are better/actual experts on this board to attest to that. Anecdotally, look at what happened to MAPS I. We wanted rail in that one, but settled for wheeled trolleys. Those trolleys were eventually replaced by city buses (CIRC), and that route was eventually nixed. Businesses know this and won't make the same investment they would if there were rail. Probably that gets a tad less true as bus route density and ridership improve.

[okccowan]

Is the CIRC bus route dead?

[shawnw]

Yes. I lamented this about a year ago (during the budget process):

https://twitter.com/shawn_dubs/statu...06655161905152

[Midtowner]

Why not add passing tracks at four, or five stations, and run the streetcar both directions? Counterclockwise would stay the same, clockwise would take the siding. And add a switch at the Colcord, so the Downtown route wouldn’t have to go thru Bricktown.

If you become pretty familiar with the route, you're really never more than a short walk from a station on the entirely opposite end of the system. For example, when I go to the courthouse, I jump on at Dewey, I jump off at the Business District, then I jump back on at the Library stop, which bypasses a large part of the system. We're not used to public transit in OKC, but this had to be how the designers intended for this thing to work.

[citywokchinesefood]

If you become pretty familiar with the route, you're really never more than a short walk from a station on the entirely opposite end of the system. For example, when I go to the courthouse, I jump on at Dewey, I jump off at the Business District, then I jump back on at the Library stop, which bypasses a large part of the system. We're not used to public transit in OKC, but this had to be how the designers intended for this thing to work.

If you have used public transit in other American cities it isn't that weird/bad. If you have spent any time in Europe or Asia it is just a massive failure of what if. I used the streetcar for a little over a year for my primary transit to and from work and getting around the downtown area where I lived. The timing was consistently horrific. The number of times I was standing on the platform and the drivers blew past me on the last loop before they closed was too damn high rain or snow. The way the streetcar system is setup right now is a novelty not public transit it is a complete and total joke. I hate driving, but the abysmal bussing and public transit in this city forced me to buy a car when Uber and Lyft prices for my monthly transportation expenses exceeded a reasonable car payment/insurance/upkeep fund. I wish we would get our **** together with public transit, but I don't think we will ever have the political will to do so.

[shawnw]

Keep the faith. Keep pressing your local reps.

[jccouger]

Ugh, please no expansion.

[shawnw]

Expansion done right (e.g. not TOD this time) could be the proverbial OKC "game changer".

[5alive]

Please expansion...how cool and convenient to take the streetcar to the Plaza area or to 23rd Street and on up the Paseo area!

[Timshel]

Agreed with Shawn. Expansion is the only thing in my mind that can really make the streetcar a big success, and if done right, would definitely be a game changer.

[Plutonic Panda]

Lol I remember people saying the original streetcar was going to be a “game changer.”

[shawnw]

That's why I made the reference I did with it in quotes

[Urbanized]

Many existing streetcar route deficiencies could be largely overcome with three blocks of new track.

1. Bricktown cutoff down Robinson straight to convention center (2 blocks)
2. Midtown cutoff between NW 11th and NW 10th (1 block)

Run 3 separate routes with transfers and maybe one single through route (or two if you really want to). The end.