State Casinos: Lucky Star

[Patrick]

Sounds like if the Cheyenne/Arapaho tribes don't change their way, their casinos are gonig to be shut down too.

Hey Luke, I read your review on Winstar. I've been to several of the state casinos, including Winstar. Your review was pretty much in line with what I would've given it. I will admit...Winstar is huge...but it seems to me like a lot of Winstar's space is taken up by their bingo hall!

It is the largest casino in the state, but I don't really think it's the nicest. The new Cherokee Resort casino in east Tulsa, off I-44 is much nicer.....it reminds me more of the casinos in Vegas because it has a high rise hotel attached to the complex....the lobby of the hotel flows right into the casino. It's not like Winstar where it has hotels off in the distance, unattached.
If you want to see a first class state casino you might make a trip up to Tulsa sometime...it's just off I-44 (north side) a few miles east of Memorial. You can't miss it.

Unfortunately, all of the state casinos are all smoking. That's one drawback. Seems like Cherokee didn't seem as smoky though.

We also went to Creek Casino in Tulsa (off Riverside) and it was the worst in regards to smoke. I probably won't be back there for awhile. swake in the past has mentioned some of the renovations that are taking place there though.

I've been to most of the state casinos, and I'd probably say Winstar is the 2nd nicest. Give Cherokee a try sometime...you'll be very impressed.....especially with the newer part closer to the high rise hotel.

Oh....Cherokee has a pic of the hotel on their website. I believe it's 7 or 8 stories. http://www.cherokeecasino.com/

[El Gato Pollo Loco!!!]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...People are goin' to do what they're going to do...

[Luke]

Yeah, I saw a commercial for the new Cherokee Casino. It looks really really nice. I'm sure it's nicer than the Winstar. However, one of my pet peeves is paying to drive somewhere in Oklahoma. Therefore, I won't go to Tulsa cuz I don't wanna pay, what, $7.00 both ways? I've only been there maybe 5 times ever and I've lived in Oklahoma 15 years. Anyways...

Maybe someday I'll make it up to the Cherokee Casino. Or I can just hope that the Chickasaws build a nicer one near OKC.

[mranderson]

Yeah, I saw a commercial for the new Cherokee Casino. It looks really really nice. I'm sure it's nicer than the Winstar. However, one of my pet peeves is paying to drive somewhere in Oklahoma. Therefore, I won't go to Tulsa cuz I don't wanna pay, what, $7.00 both ways? I've only been there maybe 5 times ever and I've lived in Oklahoma 15 years. Anyways...

Maybe someday I'll make it up to the Cherokee Casino. Or I can just hope that the Chickasaws build a nicer one near OKC.

Have you ever thought of trying another freeway? I-40 is not a turnpike and you could go, I think to the Muskogee exit. Or it goes all the way to US 75. I can not remember if that one is a turnpike, however, all it would do is slow you down by five miles per hour. I think distance is about the same.

[El Gato Pollo Loco!!!]

Yeah, I saw a commercial for the new Cherokee Casino. It looks really really nice. I'm sure it's nicer than the Winstar. However, one of my pet peeves is paying to drive somewhere in Oklahoma. Therefore, I won't go to Tulsa cuz I don't wanna pay, what, $7.00 both ways? I've only been there maybe 5 times ever and I've lived in Oklahoma 15 years. Anyways...

Maybe someday I'll make it up to the Cherokee Casino. Or I can just hope that the Chickasaws build a nicer one near OKC.

If you take the 66, it might be longer, but the scenery's better and you don't have to pay a bajillion bucks to go straight through..

[Luke]

I know there are free, but less efficient ways to get to Tulsa. It just doesn't seem fair that the best, quickest way to Tulsa costs $7.00. I do want to go up Route 66 someday for the historical value of it.

[Patrick]

I agree with you Luke. What irritates me is that after the Turner Turnpike was payed for, the toll was supposed to disappear. Instead, the state is now using toll money earned from the Turner Turnpike and other state toll roads to build new toll roads. Argh! Seems like a vicious cycle.

[Midtowner]

Most people do have a limit on how much money they gamble, however, not that many people are that disciplined. okcpulse is right.......it is personal irresponsibility. Unfortunately, some people just can't seem to control themselves. Some will get lucky and start winning....and winning...and winning. Then they will start losing....and losing, in hopes that they will start winning again. Their adrenaline gets pumping, and then money is not an object.

We all know that the rich people will not be gambling...they don't need to. It will be the middle-low class people, the ones who can't afford it. Face it, some humans are just not very smart. They play the game of luck and they lose...and their families lose.

I'm glad to see okcpulse is a believer in Christ, as I am. I have talked to many pastors who have told me that if a "church member" or somebody else was to win in gambling, and wanting to give an offering to the church, that it would not be accepted.....because it came from gambling. They consider it "dirty " money, and so do I. Although, there are a few churches that are desperate enough, they would take it.

I want to give to the Lord the money I make the old fashioned way...by earning it, not by luck.

I'm glad that you know this.

What is your evidence?

You have none? Yet you seem to believe that this is the truth?

Please. I challenge you to actually bring something -- some sources to back up your very weak hyperbole. Gambling hurts families? Prove it. Gambling only targets the poor? Prove it.

I'm tired of people bringing these hasty generalizations to the table.

Either bring some proof or nothing at all.

[okcpulse]

Just want to emphasize Luke's assumption on the Turner Turnpike tolls. The toll is $7.00 round-trip... or $3.50 one way. It's annoying, and the turnpike should be freed, but remember tolls on Florida turnpikes, the nation's largest turnpike system, is at least twice as much as Oklahoma tolls.

[Luke]

Well, if Patrick is right about the original plan to make the turpike free, it just makes me never want to use it that much more.

Where in the bleep is all that money going? Is some Turnpike Authority guy getting rich? You'd never know it was going to other roads in our state. Sheesh.

[Midtowner]

Well, if Patrick is right about the original plan to make the turpike free, it just makes me never want to use it that much more.

Where in the bleep is all that money going? Is some Turnpike Authority guy getting rich? You'd never know it was going to other roads in our state. Sheesh.

Actually, the money goes into expanding the current turnpike system and maintaining what they already have. A lot of it goes to some of the unprofitable turnpikes like the Indian Nations turnpike (built because of powerful state legislators from southeastern Oklahoma like Gene Stipe).

[mranderson]

Well, if Patrick is right about the original plan to make the turpike free, it just makes me never want to use it that much more.

Where in the bleep is all that money going? Is some Turnpike Authority guy getting rich? You'd never know it was going to other roads in our state. Sheesh.

When the state legislature authorized the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority, I think in 1950 (the 50's for sure), there was a clause that stated when the turnpike was paid in full, it would be come free. That clause has never been enforced.

Gary Richardson, the most serious Independant candidate we have ever had for Oklahoma Governor, pledged to honor that clause. None of the other candidates would touch it.

One reason I voted for Richardson. We need to honor what the legislature said.

[Luke]

That is the reason I voted for Richardson too.

Maybe we should inform The Oklahoman, The Tulsa World, KFOR, KWTV, KOCO, KOTV, KTUL and let them know they have a great story on their hands. Maybe one of them will run with it. Expose the turnpike authority.

[mranderson]

That is the reason I voted for Richardson too.

Maybe we should inform The Oklahoman, The Tulsa World, KFOR, KWTV, KOCO, KOTV, KTUL and let them know they have a great story on their hands. Maybe one of them will run with it. Expose the turnpike authority.

That has been done many times. I have no idea with the exception of electing Richardson, how to get what we are entitled to.

As long as people like Barry Switzer buy offices and people vote the incumbant without analyzing the issues, then we will continue to be hosed.

[Patrick]

Actually the expansion projects on the Kilpatrick turnpike are being payed for by profits off of the other turnpikes.

[flatang]

THERE IS NO WIN IN WINSTAR
To any one thinking they are going to capitalize at WinStar Casino in OK, better THINK AGAIN. Now everybody knows that the house always has the advantage. As a frequent player I would like to share some of the pitfalls learned along the way, some of which I wished had been given to me prior to going. If I can spare even one individual, it will be worth it. WinStar has come up with a few extra ways to help you part with your money.

First some of the common unknowns. NO ALCOHOL is served at WinStar, WinStar is NOT open 24 hours a day, the establishment ( I hate to call it a casino, since they don’t run it like one) is divided into 3 sections the first of these 3 sections is shut down at 3 or 4am regardless of how much investment you may have put into a machine you will get thrown out. The second section closes at 5am and the last section or entire building shuts down at 6am NO EXCEPTIONS. To the best of my knowledge this information is not posted anywhere, I've seen many customers burned by this trick (work a machine to then be told by security to get off it). Almost every game uses a magnetic type card, which tracks every thing you do there along with keeping track of your money. From your initial investment and any winnings you may have been fortunate to obtain. VERY IMPORTANT if you do not redeem the monies on these cards or any tickets printed from a cashed out machine by 6am, that money will be gone. WinStar makes a feeble attempt of warning you on this but again I've seen and been victim to this "low blow" of WinStar's. WinStar does very little in the way of "Comps". After spending somewhere between $30,000 - $50,000 did I finally get a comp for a free meal; I HAD TO ASK THEM FOR IT THOUGH. WinStar's rewards points work like this; Last time I was updated you will receive $1 for every $600 you play, so if you plan on having the $12.95 steak dinner + drink, tax & tip on your rewards points you better plan on playing approx. $10,800.

CUSTOMER INCONVENIENCE is the specialty of the house. Most games use the card, others will pay out tickets which need to be redeemed, you will love it when you stand in line to cash in your ticket only to finally get up to the teller and be told they can't cash that kind of ticket. You probably will have to go all the way to the other side of the establishment to redeem. My favorite is when they tell you the person responsible for that type of payoff is on break or at lunch (the trick here is to aggravate you enough to go back out on the floor and start losing back the money). I've even been told on more than one occasion "We are out of money" You'll be guaranteed to see the most people available to assist at the least needed time and the least amount of assistants at the most needed time "Blackjack cashing out, a joke".

Blackjack the player's best bet, usually. NOT HERE It has been told to me in probably 14 different tales, what the $.50 ante is used for. Regardless you as the player will be out $.50 for each and every hand you play, win, lose or draw no matter if the state is given this money and the casino can't show it as a profit etc., etc.. I've seen blue colored cards mixed into red colored decks, short shoes, cards found on the floor, etc., etc. if you don't know the word "gaffed" better look into it. Read up on the average number of times a dealer should flop a ten valued card then go to WinStar and count how many they flop, talk about pre-arranged. Learn lots more about Blackjack at blackjackforumonline you will need to be able to see a stacked deck and continuous shuffle machines can easily be setup against players.

"The quietest casino I've ever been in", a good indicator of a casino's slot pay out opportunities as a whole is to listen for the winning sounds. People tend to get loud when a winner appears and the slots will usually produce a winner indicated noise. I have been in the WinStar when nobody is there and I have been there when it is at full capacity. On many of these occasions when the establishment is full I have noted the noise indicators resemble an empty casino. Let me put it to you like this. Why does WinStar feel it necessary to announce over the loud speaker every time they have a jackpot. Here's a theory, usually when something comes along that’s rare people tend to brag about it and since it happens so infrequently they want the other couple of thousand people playing who were not in the vicinity to witness to know (I wonder how many fall for this). A jackpot is $1,200 and up, the majority paid out are between $1,200-$2,000. These types of pay outs are very rare. In most cases you will lose your initial investment and try again and again etc. Eventually you hit, think you’re a winner, chances are your not. If you don’t immediately leave you are going to lose more of the winnings, subtract the investment prior and the taxes you will have to pay and the end result is usually negative. Don't think you can make up the difference by claiming losses on your taxes either. You can only claim losses up to the total amount of winnings and the way the gov't factors those two you get screwed even more. You wont be avoiding the whole tax thing either, if you want your money you have to fill out the forms and WinStar will send in your claim so the gov't will know. If you like to gamble play the state lottery. If you need a casino go to Louisiana or ones that are regulated. The cost of the drive will be offset by the generous comps offered elsewhere. Why give your money away to an operation that won't even show their appreciation for your business. This is a hospitality industry apparently Winstar was never informed.

[Pete]

All 4 Lucky Star Casinos (Concho, Clinton, Canton, Hammon and Watonga) closed last Friday citing 'internet interruption.

Turns out they have been the victim of a ransom cyber attack; notice from their Facebook page:

[Dob Hooligan]

I heard that the original FBI response was "less robust" (my words) than the tribe had hoped for. Although, a casino getting hit might be considered less a threat to National Security than an oil pipeline.

[bombermwc]

Being a former employee of a software company that ran the casino back-office systems (like game data/vault/kiosks/etc), you will never find me in one. These establishments are not set up to pay out....they are there to make money. And contrary to what was said above, most people DO not set themselves a limit. Gambling addiction is HUGE and not always seen for what it is...including with the staff.

I can't even tell you how many times people cashed out their social security checks in one of our kiosks to go burn it. Those blue hair old ladies aren't just bingo players. They burn it at all hours of the night in any way they can, and 99% of it being slots. You'll see people with THOUSANDS of dollars on their tickets. They are spending THOUSANDS at a time people. And they don't second think it at all. They live for the win and are willing to spend oodles to get it. They might win a 5k payout, but the win/loss (which is ABSOLUTELY tracked by the player) is not in their favor....again, the casino is there to make money, not pay it out. They take in so much money, that they have to give it away in those "prizes" to offset their intake. You dont think they actually bring in extra people when they give away a lawn mower do you?

There are two types of facilities. Those that the tribes run as businesses (the successful ones) and those that run it as a tribal employment firm (which tend to fail). The first are set up like Choctaw/Creek/Chickasaw/etc. They absolutely know what they're doing and do the business side properly. Even if you do not like something they are doing, well you can guarantee that a LOT of thought and consideration went in to the "why" of what they did. They are far from fools. In fact, i would argue that some of these larger groups are some of the better business minds around, being extreme experts in their field. The second type are those smaller facilities of say 10-50k sq ft. They're focused on only employing tribal members at the sacrifice to the business. So many of these have failed across the state people they didn't make a good business decision. It doesn't help to employee tribal members if the place has to close down because you were hemorrhaging money on bad salaries. These pop up and close down all the time.

Smoking - you know immediately if they have good HVAC. Oklahoma has had a few non-smoking facilities in the past, but then invariably are smaller and close. It goes with the territory (and is disgusting). The amount of time spend cleaning that mess off of machines....OMG!

Reality just isn't what people think it is when looking from the outside. IF I ever go to one, I set my limit low at something like $20-30. Have a good time, treat it like going to the theater...and then GET OUT. But don't be fooled, everything is designed to keep you there and to not give your money back to you. As I said, they're not dumb....they're calculating.

[Laramie]

Excellent point, Bombermwc... Especially about setting your betting limit and getting out.

[Pete]

I was meeting someone in the business offices of Remington Park on a Tuesday morning and walked through their casino.

It was busy and full of the saddest-looking people I've ever seen. It depressed the hell out of me.

[Bunty]

I figure older retired people with money know full well they can't take their money with them when they die, so why don't blow much of their money on what gives them most pleasure, such as casinos? As long as they don't go so wildly and crazy overboard with it that they they can't pay their monthly bills, I don't see anything wrong with it.

But I would be worried about much younger people blowing their money away in casinos.

[kukblue1]

I go to the casino once a month as my "entertainment expense". I don't go to the movies. I don't really go out to eat. I will tell you this much though for the last two years I have tracked how much I have lost and it does slow you down and keep you in the right frame of mind. Buy lost i mean I usually take $100 if I come home with $20 lost $80. I only went twice last year cause of covid. I went I think around 15 times in 2019 and 13 times in 2018. I think I came home with more money than I walked in with only 4 times out of 28 trips. I lost an average of around $70 a trip. Like I said when you start putting down what your winning and losing you will be shocked on how many times you lose vs winning. That being said I'm done with the Oklahoma casinos and saying money to go to Vegas. SWA had a $200 round trip fare Mid September and it's been 16 years since I been out there so I jumped on it. Can't do Allegiant sorry.

[Bellaboo]

Vegas is good at taking your money too...^^^^

[kukblue1]

Vegas is good at taking your money too...^^^^

That what she said.