Buying a used car?

[Bill Robertson]

Thx, I was going to give them and Carmax a shot first, good to know. Buying online is great, we actually did it for the first time when we bought my wife's 2003 Honda new in IL, it was so fantastic to not have to deal with the dealer crap...

I HATE!!!!! dealer crap. I know full well I gave too much for my 2 year old car because I got caught up in the "I really like this car" crap. And I know better. Did it anyway. At least I'm really happy with the car. But my next car will be bought online so I won't have to deal in person. I'm much more outgoing/confident/hard nosed on the internet.

[securityinfo]

An excellent resource for anyone in the market for a car, new or used, and all kinds of extremely useful information regarding the whole car business: https://yourautoadvocate.com/

Without going into much detail (so you can discover the delights of the site for yourselves) this father (dealer sales for over 40 years) and son (tech guy, reaches the young audience) have put together the best site I have ever encountered for car information and purchasing. Please take a look, it's basically a free site for the information, with an ability to add services to your account at any time.

[TheTravellers]

An excellent resource for anyone in the market for a car, new or used, and all kinds of extremely useful information regarding the whole car business: https://yourautoadvocate.com/

Without going into much detail (so you can discover the delights of the site for yourselves) this father (dealer sales for over 40 years) and son (tech guy, reaches the young audience) have put together the best site I have ever encountered for car information and purchasing. Please take a look, it's basically a free site for the information, with an ability to add services to your account at any time.

Will take a look, thanks.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I HATE!!!!! dealer crap. I know full well I gave too much for my 2 year old car because I got caught up in the "I really like this car" crap. And I know better. Did it anyway. At least I'm really happy with the car. But my next car will be bought online so I won't have to deal in person. I'm much more outgoing/confident/hard nosed on the internet.

I'm one of those people who just looks up the invoice price of the car and tries to get it down to that price. Subaru made it easy for my wife's car. You just donate money to a charity and they get you a car at 2% below invoice with no haggling. The dealer orders it, it comes in, pay and leave. Best experience of my life.

[TheTravellers]

Argh, need one last bit of help, please. Insurance company has sent paperwork requesting Power of Attorney, title transfer, etc. again (with me as the owner, they previously had my wife as the owner since she was driving it and reported it). Since the car is older than 10 years, I believe the process for owner retained salvage here in OK appears to be that I keep the car, keep the title, keep the tag, they deduct the salvage value from the offer, write me a check, (and I pull the dent out and get a new tire) and that's it. Or am I wrong and it truly is more complicated? Thx....

[Dob Hooligan]

Argh, need one last bit of help, please. Insurance company has sent paperwork requesting Power of Attorney, title transfer, etc. again (with me as the owner, they previously had my wife as the owner since she was driving it and reported it). Since the car is older than 10 years, I believe the process for owner retained salvage here in OK appears to be that I keep the car, keep the title, keep the tag, they deduct the salvage value from the offer, write me a check, (and I pull the dent out and get a new tire) and that's it. Or am I wrong and it truly is more complicated? Thx....

I think you are right. I recall USAA hit you and are the company you are dealing with? I had some dealings with them within the last couple years and must say that they are not focused on nuance or attention to detail in customer relations. Company policy is what they hammer their young and inexperienced work force with. You might be 100% correct about how the process on 10 plus year old total losses is to be dealt with, they just don't care, and will try to force you into following USAA company policy.

I can't speak directly as it relates to USAA, but we do sometimes wind up in situations where companies just have a different interpretation of the law. The quickest example I can give you is that Allstate interprets the law to require a vehicle that needs the frame replaced to be a total loss, while most other companies will replace a frame if it makes economic sense.

More than most times I have to emphasize that YOU are your only advocate in dealing with insurance companies. Stick to your guns. You are correct and will ultimately prevail, in my opinion.

[TheTravellers]

I think you are right. I recall USAA hit you and are the company you are dealing with? I had some dealings with them within the last couple years and must say that they are not focused on nuance or attention to detail in customer relations. Company policy is what they hammer their young and inexperienced work force with. You might be 100% correct about how the process on 10 plus year old total losses is to be dealt with, they just don't care, and will try to force you into following USAA company policy.

I can't speak directly as it relates to USAA, but we do sometimes wind up in situations where companies just have a different interpretation of the law. The quickest example I can give you is that Allstate interprets the law to require a vehicle that needs the frame replaced to be a total loss, while most other companies will replace a frame if it makes economic sense.

More than most times I have to emphasize that YOU are your only advocate in dealing with insurance companies. Stick to your guns. You are correct and will ultimately prevail, in my opinion.

Thanks for the confirmation. I plan on emailing my local State Farm agent and getting his take on it. And yeah, I think they're just trying to assembly-line it through. It appears that due to OK statute, if damages are greater than 60% of the vehicle's worth, then they total it, and this was just about that (haven't done the actual calculations), so they're playing by the rules.

[Dob Hooligan]

Thanks for the confirmation. I plan on emailing my local State Farm agent and getting his take on it. And yeah, I think they're just trying to assembly-line it through. It appears that due to OK statute, if damages are greater than 60% of the vehicle's worth, then they total it, and this was just about that (haven't done the actual calculations), so they're playing by the rules.

....yeeaahhh....get ready for another excursion into weedville. I have been told many times that the wording is "damage to the safety related components of the vehicle exceed 60% of the pre-loss value". Within a year of that rule passing insurance companies decided that paint; moldings and decorative trim; front fenders and even back glass could be excluded from the 60% calculation. Quickly we got back to the situation where the formula is pre loss value minus salvage value = cut off line for total or repair.

[Bill Robertson]

Wow! I didn't know this process had become so complicated. Back in the 70s and 80s, my hot rodding heyday, I totaled a couple of cars that I really wanted the motors and trannys out of. I'd spent a lot of lot of time and money building them. Then you sat down with the adjuster and agreed to an amount and walked away with a check and your wrecked car. I miss simpler times.
BTW, Travellers, from the area you've suggested you live I probably drove your street at WAY over the speed limit in 76 and 77 pretty much daily. Hey, I was young and very crazy.

[TheTravellers]

OK, so here's what I've found out so far.

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/OK...itles/os47.rtf (link to the statutes)

47-1105. Definitions - Certificate of title - Application - Evidence of ownership and compliance with federal law -
Liens and encumbrances - Fees - Notice of nonuse or theft.
A. As used in the Oklahoma Vehicle License and Registration Act:
1. "Salvage vehicle" means any vehicle which is within the last ten (10) model years and which has been damaged by
collision or other occurrence to the extent that the cost of repairing the vehicle for safe operation on the highway
exceeds sixty percent (60%) of its fair market value, as defined by Section 1111 of this title, immediately prior to the damage.
For purposes of this section, actual repair costs shall only include labor and parts for actual damage to the
suspension, motor, transmission, frame or unibody and designated structural components;

This validates what Dob said earlier about including only labor and parts, not paint, supplies, etc.

§47-1111. Salvage title - New title.
A. As used in this section:
5. "Vehicle" means a vehicle, as defined in paragraph 40 of Section 1102 of this title, manufactured within the last ten (10) model years.

This should mean that since my car is a 2007 model, none of the rest of the section applies and I do not need to get a salvage title, inspection after repair, etc., but I need to verify that with the OTC.

OTC said they need to have a percentage of the repair costs (as stated above) vs. fair market value to know how to proceed. Apparently no matter how old it is, if the repair costs to make it safely operable on a highway exceed 80% of the car's fair market value, the car must be junked and a junk title must be created. But if it's less than 80%, my interpretation is that if it's between 60-80% *and* the car is newer than 10 model years and the insurance company declares it a total loss, you have to get a salvage title, and you can choose to have them pay you the value after the salvage cost is deducted from the fair market value, then repair it yourself and get it inspected and then get a new regular title or you can just get the fair market value and turn everything over to them. If the car is older than 10 model years, I believe you can have the insurance company pay you the fair market value (subtracting the salvage cost), and there is no title transfer, no inspection, nothing else, and you're done. In my case, the cost of parts and labor are approximately $3000, and the fair market value of the car is a bit less than $6000. So it's older than 10 years, the percentage is obviously less than 80% (and maybe even less than 60% since it's restricted to parts and labor only), USAA should just write me a check and it's done. However, I need to verify with OTC, since I didn't have the amounts and percentages handy when I was on the phone with them yesterday.

[TheTravellers]

Wow! I didn't know this process had become so complicated. Back in the 70s and 80s, my hot rodding heyday, I totaled a couple of cars that I really wanted the motors and trannys out of. I'd spent a lot of lot of time and money building them. Then you sat down with the adjuster and agreed to an amount and walked away with a check and your wrecked car. I miss simpler times.
BTW, Travellers, from the area you've suggested you live I probably drove your street at WAY over the speed limit in 76 and 77 pretty much daily. Hey, I was young and very crazy.

Ha, you'd be in good company nowadays, there are some that still speed down Venice like crazy... And yes, I miss simpler times too, but this would be made way easier if USAA and OTC would just answer emails!

[TheTravellers]

Called OTC and they basically said to take it up with USAA, they couldn't advise me on what appears to be a clear-cut statute that basically says "Do this if your car is newer than 10 years old".

Anybody know a lawyer that isn't that expensive that would be willing to take this on and validate that the procedure I think should happen is what really should happen and send something to USAA that says "Client's car is over 10 years old, and according to this statute, nothing in it applies because of that, no title transfer needs to be done, you don't get the car or title, just write a check"?

[Dob Hooligan]

Called OTC and they basically said to take it up with USAA, they couldn't advise me on what appears to be a clear-cut statute that basically says "Do this if your car is newer than 10 years old".

Anybody know a lawyer that isn't that expensive that would be willing to take this on and validate that the procedure I think should happen is what really should happen and send something to USAA that says "Client's car is over 10 years old, and according to this statute, nothing in it applies because of that, no title transfer needs to be done, you don't get the car or title, just write a check"?

I just saw your posts. Sorry I didn't respond earlier.

Main thing to remember is that insurance companies only care about the Insurance Commissioner. Look at Insurance Commissioner website and see if there is a way to file a complaint online. I know there used to be, but don't know if it has changed within the last couple years. I don't think you need an attorney yet, and one isn't gonna touch your case because there isn't any money in property damage.

OTC and any other state agency don't want anything to do with your complaint. And won't be helpful.

Lemme check tomorrow if I have any connections with USAA who might be able to help us understand the way to work the system nowadays.

My best advice through the years in dealing with insurance companies is to remain calm, know your end goal, and to politely request to speak to the next rung up the ladder. Explain that you respectfully believe the law is on your side and you are trying to follow the law, rather than company policy. Respect that each person you are talking to is just doing what they are told and have no idea if they are right.

[TheTravellers]

I just saw your posts. Sorry I didn't respond earlier.

Main thing to remember is that insurance companies only care about the Insurance Commissioner. Look at Insurance Commissioner website and see if there is a way to file a complaint online. I know there used to be, but don't know if it has changed within the last couple years. I don't think you need an attorney yet, and one isn't gonna touch your case because there isn't any money in property damage.

OTC and any other state agency don't want anything to do with your complaint. And won't be helpful.

Lemme check tomorrow if I have any connections with USAA who might be able to help us understand the way to work the system nowadays.

My best advice through the years in dealing with insurance companies is to remain calm, know your end goal, and to politely request to speak to the next rung up the ladder. Explain that you respectfully believe the law is on your side and you are trying to follow the law, rather than company policy. Respect that each person you are talking to is just doing what they are told and have no idea if they are right.

Thanks, and yep, that's pretty much what I've been doing and what I've gathered from this process... Need to try USAA again, I prefer email because everything's there in print, so there's proof, but I guess I need to check with a different dept. there. Just seems weird because they've already agreed to pay an amount I find fair, so all I want is to not mess with the whole titling thing and it'd be nice to just pay an attorney to take a quick look at what I think is the right procedure to follow and say yes, that's a correct interpretation or no, you're wrong, here's what needs to happen. Also need to get all the details I've gotten so far to my own agent to see what his take is.

[Dob Hooligan]

Couple quick thoughts about an attorney-

1. Probably cost you at least $500. 2 hours minimum at $250/hour. That if the law is simple enough for them to review and render opinion that quickly.

2. If you “hire” an attorney the insurance company will usually no longer speak to you. They will speak to one representative of your property claim. They don’t care if it is you or lawyer, just not you AND lawyer.

[TheTravellers]

Couple quick thoughts about an attorney-

1. Probably cost you at least $500. 2 hours minimum at $250/hour. That if the law is simple enough for them to review and render opinion that quickly.

2. If you “hire” an attorney the insurance company will usually no longer speak to you. They will speak to one representative of your property claim. They don’t care if it is you or lawyer, just not you AND lawyer.

I don't think I really need to "hire" an attorney, just want someone to look at a one-paragraph summary of what I think is the right process for this car in this state with this damage, and then tell me if I'm correct or off-base, so hopefully that won't be a huge cost, but yeah, I'm willing to shell out a little bit just to get confirmation or negation. Thx.

[Dob Hooligan]

I don't think I really need to "hire" an attorney, just want someone to look at a one-paragraph summary of what I think is the right process for this car in this state with this damage, and then tell me if I'm correct or off-base, so hopefully that won't be a huge cost, but yeah, I'm willing to shell out a little bit just to get confirmation or negation. Thx.

Spoke to a friend who works for USAA. Explained that many of their employees work across multiple states and they might not be fully familiar with each states law. Suggested you be polite and stay on message while asking to speak to someone higher up the ladder. Also said to just tell them to google Oklahoma law. Said that is becoming more common for their employees and those of other companies that work multiple states.

Oh yeah. They said you are correct in your belief. Over 10 years old does not have to have the title surrendered or marked.

[TheTravellers]

Spoke to a friend who works for USAA. Explained that many of their employees work across multiple states and they might not be fully familiar with each states law. Suggested you be polite and stay on message while asking to speak to someone higher up the ladder. Also said to just tell them to google Oklahoma law. Said that is becoming more common for their employees and those of other companies that work multiple states.

Oh yeah. They said you are correct in your belief. Over 10 years old does not have to have the title surrendered or marked.

Awesome, thanks for helping out... And yes, I can confirm that not everybody there at the title copart place knows all the state laws, was able to get through to someone from the title copart who found someone who knew OK law (had to go through 2 other people, and then he had to go to 2 other people while I was on hold). Took a while, but they finally said USAA just needs to send them a loss letter. Didn't know the intricacies and that the title copart people weren't part of USAA, learned lots from this whole thing...

[Dob Hooligan]

Awesome, thanks for helping out... And yes, I can confirm that not everybody there at the title copart place knows all the state laws, was able to get through to someone from the title copart who found someone who knew OK law (had to go through 2 other people, and then he had to go to 2 other people while I was on hold). Took a while, but they finally said USAA just needs to send them a loss letter. Didn't know the intricacies and that the title copart people weren't part of USAA, learned lots from this whole thing...

If I could get you to take the time, can you kind of walk me through the process you went through on final settlement? I see the word "copart", so I am guessing USAA has hired Copart auto auction company to handle the title paperwork and financial details once a car is determined to be a total loss?

Were they nice? Were they informed, prepared and professional, etc?

Thanks

[TheTravellers]

If I could get you to take the time, can you kind of walk me through the process you went through on final settlement? I see the word "copart", so I am guessing USAA has hired Copart auto auction company to handle the title paperwork and financial details once a car is determined to be a total loss?

Were they nice? Were they informed, prepared and professional, etc?

Thanks

Sure, it was actually a fairly decent experience. When you mentioned owner-retained salvage, I emailed the USAA adjuster and told them I wanted to do that, and they did all the calculations and sent me a PDF of how they arrived at my car's value, and the salvage value, and everything looked fine to me (they actually valued my car at more than I thought it was worth). Then we got FedEx-ed some paperwork from Copart (Power of Attorney, title transfer stuff, etc.). Since it was my wife that was driving at the time, they had her name as the owner instead of mine, so I emailed the adjuster to fix that and they did. Copart kept emailing every couple of days asking us to sign the paperwork, so I emailed back telling them I wasn't going to and here's what needed to be done, to no avail. Emailed the adjuster and they said they couldn't help, talk to Copart. Also talked to OTC about the 10-year-old thing and they had no clue how to interpret it, said they only follow directions from the insurance company.

On Friday, I called Copart and the first person that I talked to couldn't answer my questions, so she sent me to someone else, and when they answered, the first thing I said was that I needed to talk to someone about Oklahoma law regarding salvage titles, and she immediately said "Let me transfer you". So I ended up talking to Henry in the Title Procurement Division of Copart and he had to check with someone "in the Oklahoma yard", and also his manager, and then he said that USAA needs to send them a loss letter and they have until Tue to get it to them. Everybody at Copart was friendly, helpful, and found out what they/I needed to know, took about an hour on the phone, all told...

[TheTravellers]

Called Copart today to make sure things were on track and first rep was clueless, was trying to tell me that because my car was older than 10 years that I had to do the whole POA/title signing over to them because it was so old, value was gone, etc. Asked immediately to escalate, then asked the next person if they had knowledge of OK law, she said she'd get a manager. Manager came on, didn't even ask me anything, had obviously looked at the claim in their system, found relevant info, and said USAA had sent them the letter and Copart was sending a notice to OTC that my car was a total loss, and I should be receiving a check in 3-4 business days.

[TheTravellers]

Got the check from USAA yesterday, yay. Unfortunately I can't pull the dent out by myself, wondering if anybody knows of some place around NW 36th/May that would do it (can't drive very far because it rubs on the tire whenever it goes over a large enough bump)? Doesn't need painting or anything, just pulled out so it won't rub against the tire...

[Pete]

I used these guys for a paintless dent repair and they were great:

https://www.facebook.com/OKCDentSHOP/

[TheTravellers]

I used these guys for a paintless dent repair and they were great:

https://www.facebook.com/OKCDentSHOP/

Thx, I'll check them out.

[Dob Hooligan]

You have Freeman's Collision at about 34th & May on the west side; and Collision Works, just north of OnCue.

If neither of those can help you, then please DM me