Oklahoma Passenger Rail Updates(non-HSR)

[Jake]

South Dakota: "Can we have rail?"

Amtrak. "No."

[David]

It would help if South Dakota actually had more than just one person who could ask for it.

[catch22]

I would really love that. It would be cool to take the train to Oklahoma City from up here, too bad there isn’t a Pueblo to La Junta connection (there is an existing BNSF mainline track between the two cities, but not sure if it has PTC or appropriate sidings to allow for mixed traffic

[mugofbeer]

Rail has always been expensive. And "why not just use buses" has long been a proposed "fix" for rail. Don't you ever wonder why there isn't an amazing, high speed, national bus system by now?

Specifically in that Colorado front range situation, busses would not work several days each year at high speed due to snow. Snow is generally never a problem for rail.

[Plutonic Panda]

It seems like rail service gets suspended all the time during major snowstorms in the NE. I’m not sure if that is the case in Europe though.

[mugofbeer]

It seems like rail service gets suspended all the time during major snowstorms in the NE. I’m not sure if that is the case in Europe though.

Cold air more than snow. It may sound silly but the NE gets a lot more cold weather than the front range does.

[BrettM2]

It seems like rail service gets suspended all the time during major snowstorms in the NE. I’m not sure if that is the case in Europe though.

Just moved back to the States from Germany. They shut down/delay the trains during heavy snow. Bavaria had a few days of interrupted service due to some heavy snow this past winter. They work really heard to open it back fast since so many people rely on it.

[Rover]

It seems like rail service gets suspended all the time during major snowstorms in the NE. I’m not sure if that is the case in Europe though.

Yes, RRs get shut down for snow in Europe. It isn't all that uncommon. In fact, my wife and I had tickets on the Orient Express a few years ago and it was cancelled for an early season snowstorm. Northern Europe has rail interruptions for snow every year.

[catch22]

BNSF/UP on the Colorado Springs Sub (between Denver and COS) are running freight very quickly after major storms, where I-25 can take many hours or even a day to get open after a significant winter storm.

That line handles 15 or so trains a day, many are unit trains of coal for the power plants in Colorado Springs and Pueblo. Pretty important line for them to keep open especially in the winter. Not saying your examples aren’t valid but the front range passenger rail line is important in the rapidly growing region, and will have better reliability in the winter than the highway. I am for an all of the above transportation solution, Road, rail, and plane.

[Plutonic Panda]

My issue with the front range proposal is the complete amateur joker proposal of a 45 MPH train costing several billion to build. I mean when you factor in walking and possible transfers who in their right mind would take this thing? It’s even worth to suffer traffic in Los Angeles than take a train than averages 45 MPH. Build the damn thing right or don’t build and widen I-25 to 8 lanes. The toll lane on I-25 is a joke as well. Colorado has been making some very questionable moves in regards to its transportation network.

I’m all for rail and an all of the above option too but with 3+ billion I don’t see how that couldn’t fund an 8 lane I-25 with free BRT AND a fleet of plows dedicated to keeping the small stretch of I-25 clear during storms.

[Jersey Boss]

2 different areas for funding rail.
85B for modernizing public transit. Commuter rail, stations, buses, etc. 80B to improve and expand freight and passenger service. Folks in Phoenix are excited about the possible return of passenger service.

Amtrak's 2035 Map Has People Talking About The Future Of U.S. Train Travel : NPR
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/06/98446...people-talking

[shawnw]

Imagine if we did this here and what it would/could do for the train network, especially if it drove capacity and faster trains.

France to ban some domestic flights where train available
https://www.theguardian.com/business...convention-mps

French MPs have voted to suspend domestic airline flights on routes that can be travelled by direct train in less than two and a half hours, as part of a series of climate and environmental measures.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’d rather not go that route.

[shawnw]

No surprises

[catch22]

Not saying it would ever happen here because it wouldn’t. But that would absolutely decimate the airline industry.

[Plutonic Panda]

No surprises

Sure not and thankfully that has about as much of a chance as building the Midtown Expressway in Manhattan.

[Mott]

Imagine if we did this here and what it would/could do for the train network, especially if it drove capacity and faster trains.

France to ban some domestic flights where train available
https://www.theguardian.com/business...convention-mps

Since we don’t have TVG trains on their own dedicated right of ways, this isn’t of much concern.

[shawnw]

https://twitter.com/PassRailOK/statu...39800965648387

Oklahoma House Approves HCR1003 for
@Amtrak
#HeartlandFlyer extension, OKC-Newton, Kansas and second frequency Ft. Worth-OKC-Wichita-Kansas City. On to senate next. Resolutions voices support for extension with no funding commitment.

[Plutonic Panda]

With no funding commitments lol... well I’m glad at least they’re doing that. It’s a start.

[Jersey Boss]

With no funding commitments lol... well I’m glad at least they’re doing that. It’s a start.

No funding= "All hat and no cattle". Talk is cheap and meaningless coming from State leadership. This does nada.

[baralheia]

that might be when Amtrak starts funding the lines.

Obviously OKC already has service to FTW (funded by OK-TX) and wants service to Newton (expected to be funded by OK-KS). My interpretation is Amtrak will take over funding of OKC-FTW by 2025 and OKC-KC/Newton by 2030. We definitely already have Vancouver Canada - Seattle - Portland (slated 2035 in twitter) then on to LA already on two routes (Amtrak Cascades and Pacific Starlight).

If only the Trump Admin would implement such a plan (or better/sooner). ..

Apologies for the reply to a months-old post, but I'm getting back in the swing of keeping up with OKCTalk again... To clear up any misconceptions: The Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2009 (PRIIA) included a mandate to implement a standardized cost-sharing methodology for all Amtrak routes shorter than 750 miles under Section 209. Basically, for routes shorter than 750 miles, the state(s) that the train travels through must share a proportional cost of operating the service. Even if the Heartland Flyer service was expanded up to Newton, KS from it's current terminus of OKC, the total route length would still only be approx. 400 miles - and the current cost sharing structure would still apply, meaning we'd still be on the hook for yearly operational costs. My understanding is Oklahoma's financial share of operating the full route from Ft Worth to Newton via OKC would be a little less than double what it is today, which will likely be a tough sell to lawmakers who hold the purse strings.

Money and political willpower are the two things that are doing the most to hamper progress here. If Biden's infrastructure plan comes to fruition, there'd be a pot of money that Amtrak and states could use to shore up the rail infrastructure between here and Newton, which would certainly lower the barriers to getting this expanded service on track. But as noted above, it will be difficult for lawmakers to stomach the additional yearly operational costs, even despite the projected increase in economic activity (and tax revenues) that would be directly attributable to the service expansion.

Lots of moving pieces and potential roadblocks here. If you want to see the Heartland Flyer service get expanded, then it's imperative that you reach out to your elected representatives on all levels - local, state, and federal. Express your support for the current Heartland Flyer service, investments in passenger rail infrastructure under the American Jobs Plan, and the proposed service extension. Despite being a priority for Amtrak, without local/state buy-in the expansion is very unlikely to happen.

[David]

Does anyone know if the infrastructure bill as it stands now has money in it for the Heartland Flyer connection up to Kansas?

[Plutonic Panda]

Last I heard the bill still is in the senate and has yet to be sent to the house. They are still amending it to its final form where the house can vote on it. I’d make sure to talk to your representatives and tell them to push for more HF funding. But from what I’ve read there is a lot of support for it so I bet it has a good chance of happening.

[baralheia]

Does anyone know if the infrastructure bill as it stands now has money in it for the Heartland Flyer connection up to Kansas?

It does, but I don't believe it's directly earmarked for the HF in the bill. My understanding from the public meetings that Amtrak has held regarding service expansion is that they view an extension of the Heartland Flyer route as one of their top priorities, and the plan is to use part of the $66B they will receive from the infrastructure bill to directly pay the additional costs incurred by service expansion - both capital and operational - for the first few years. The Heartland Flyer would see the route extended up to Newton, KS by way of Guthrie, Ponca City, and Wichita, and two additional daily frequencies would be added between OKC and FTW.

It's a bit light on the details, but here's Amtrak's fact sheet on the proposed expansion: http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/u...heet-FINAL.pdf

[catch22]

Thanks for the link.

With 3x daily, there is potential for a small taste of commuter rail from Norman to Downtown OKC right there; if the timing works out. It won't for most situations, but it is $12 round trip from Norman to OKC on Amtrak.com