Bury the power lines

[jedicurt]

Name one city over a population of 250,000, or even 100,000, who have retroactively buried their power lines?

Why would you think spending in the vicinity of 57 Billion dollars to bury power lines would be a good investment? I think I'd rather go without electricity five days every decade or so rather that spend an extra $80-260 per month on my electric bill for the next 30 years.



https://www.oge.com/wps/wcm/connect/...=AJPERES&CVID=

yep. the plan in the Tampa Suburb i was looking at was a $125 tax on every electric bill, but this also looked like a community that could easily afford it and they chose to do it that way.

[Jersey Boss]

yep. the plan in the Tampa Suburb i was looking at was a $125 tax on every electric bill, but this also looked like a community that could easily afford it and they chose to do it that way.

Nm, read your earlier post.

[OKCretro]

Name one city over a population of 250,000, or even 100,000, who have retroactively buried their power lines?

Why would you think spending in the vicinity of 57 Billion dollars to bury power lines would be a good investment? I think I'd rather go without electricity five days every decade or so rather that spend an extra $80-260 per month on my electric bill for the next 30 years.



https://www.oge.com/wps/wcm/connect/...=AJPERES&CVID=

Not sure if you read the news but over 100k customers didnt have power for over a week, and 45k didnt have power for over 10 days. Last significant ice storm was in late november of 2015. Many didnt have power for over a week in that storm as well.

So yea there goes your whole 5 days, and once a decade argument.

Seems like nothing was learned from the 2015 ice storm. Guessing that OGE will not change a thing or learn anything from this one as well.....

[RustytheBailiff]

OG&E Estimates a cost of between $80 and 260 per bill for the next 30 years as needed to retire the cost of burying their lines.

The study found that the cost for converting from overhead to underground lines would be a minimum of
$435,000 per mile. With a 30,000 square mile territory, our cost to bury the lines would be $30.5 billion to
bury all our distribution lines and $27 billion to bury our transmission lines in Oklahoma.

 With the high cost to bury lines, the impact to an average residential customer’s bill would be an increase of
$80 to $260 per month for a 30-year time period.

 Even without the cost issue, we couldn’t bury the main feeder “backbone” lines (the ones you see along roads
and highways). That’s because conditions are constantly changing –the amount of load on the lines, positions
on the streets, etc. Each time a community increases load (usually due to new development) or widens a
street, we must have access to the lines. Burying these lines would not be feasible and could be costly.

 The time frame for burying all lines within our service territory would be more than 20 years.

[TheTravellers]

OG&E Estimates a cost of between $80 and 260 per bill for the next 30 years as needed to retire the cost of burying their lines.

The study found that the cost for converting from overhead to underground lines would be a minimum of
$435,000 per mile. With a 30,000 square mile territory, our cost to bury the lines would be $30.5 billion to
bury all our distribution lines and $27 billion to bury our transmission lines in Oklahoma.

 With the high cost to bury lines, the impact to an average residential customer’s bill would be an increase of
$80 to $260 per month for a 30-year time period.

 Even without the cost issue, we couldn’t bury the main feeder “backbone” lines (the ones you see along roads
and highways). That’s because conditions are constantly changing –the amount of load on the lines, positions
on the streets, etc. Each time a community increases load (usually due to new development) or widens a
street, we must have access to the lines. Burying these lines would not be feasible and could be costly.

 The time frame for burying all lines within our service territory would be more than 20 years.

That's all from OG&E. Wonder what an independent analysis (or the costs of a completed project in another city with similar parameters) would come up with?

[RustytheBailiff]

That's all from OG&E. Wonder what an independent analysis (or the costs of a completed project in another city with similar parameters) would come up with?

Do you think OG&E is lying? Why would you question their numbers?

[TheTravellers]

Do you think OG&E is lying? Why would you question their numbers?

Because they're OG&E and their history isn't exactly stellar WRT rate increases and modernization. Of course, the same could be said about almost any electric company (although at least OG&E isn't as bad as ComEd (12 years of personal experience with them) or PG&E).

[foodiefan]

. . .maybe time to look into a whole house generator. . . .

[gopokes88]

OGE is being generous in that estimate, after change orders it would easily double.

Think how complex and delay ridden project 180 was because every time they opened up a new section there was mountains of complications. This is that except city wide.

It's super easy to get mad and type out BURY POWER LINES, the actual work it takes is a completely different story.

[Plutonic Panda]

Name another city that has gone in and buried their electric grid after it was already above ground. Or a state, or country; it just hasn’t happened.

Nice strawman. Once again I have to state for the 10,000th time, no one is suggesting we tear up every street at once and bury the entire grid. That is absurd.

[Plutonic Panda]

OGE is being generous in that estimate, after change orders it would easily double.

Think how complex and delay ridden project 180 was because every time they opened up a new section there was mountains of complications. This is that except city wide.

It's super easy to get mad and type out BURY POWER LINES, the actual work it takes is a completely different story.

It’s also super easy to have a knee jerk reaction to someone suggesting we bury the power and constantly scream we can’t do it because it’s too expensive while other cities and countries are able to.

[Plutonic Panda]

OG&E Estimates a cost of between $80 and 260 per bill for the next 30 years as needed to retire the cost of burying their lines.

The study found that the cost for converting from overhead to underground lines would be a minimum of
$435,000 per mile. With a 30,000 square mile territory, our cost to bury the lines would be $30.5 billion to
bury all our distribution lines and $27 billion to bury our transmission lines in Oklahoma.

 With the high cost to bury lines, the impact to an average residential customer’s bill would be an increase of
$80 to $260 per month for a 30-year time period.

 Even without the cost issue, we couldn’t bury the main feeder “backbone” lines (the ones you see along roads
and highways). That’s because conditions are constantly changing –the amount of load on the lines, positions
on the streets, etc. Each time a community increases load (usually due to new development) or widens a
street, we must have access to the lines. Burying these lines would not be feasible and could be costly.

 The time frame for burying all lines within our service territory would be more than 20 years.

You ought to contact OG&E and see if they want to hire a PR assistant. I’d like to know how they came up with numbers and what plan they based the rate increases off of. It’s so easy to scare people with a ridiculous rate increase that would only be the case if they proposed rebuilding the entire grid at once or in a very short amount of time.

For the 10001th time, what you, gopokes, and Buffalo bill are so conveniently leaving out every time you respond and say it can’t be done because of costs is what me and likely anyone else proposing this is suggesting we plan long term to have them burying- not all at once. I don’t know why I have to constantly repeat this over and over. It’s like some people want them to be above ground are making any excuses they can.

Planning for roughly 40-60 percent of the grid to be buried over a 30-40 year period doesn’t seem unreasonable. There are federal grants, subsidies, development impact fees that developers can pool into with new construction requiring arterial roads with above utilities to be widened. Roads that need to be reconstructed over the course of the next several decades etc. that would account for a sizable portion of the grid right there.

It never ceases to amaze me how resistant Oklahoma’s are to big, bold, and complex projects. I will be happy to provide a list of many reconstruction projects that include burying utility lines as part of it when I get back to town and have access to a desktop computer.

[RustytheBailiff]

Nice strawman. Once again I have to state for the 10,000th time, no one is suggesting we tear up every street at once and bury the entire grid. That is absurd.

This wasn't you post:

Bury the power lines

That is all.

Really though, this is a good article. Even if the price tag came out to be 30 billion, it'd be worth it, imo. It can be done in phases.

[Plutonic Panda]

This wasn't you post:

Bury the power lines

That is all.

Really though, this is a good article. Even if the price tag came out to be 30 billion, it'd be worth it, imo. It can be done in phases.

You really seem delusional at times and perhaps I was wrong about you being a troll. If you read this thread it won’t take you very long to see just how many times I have specifically stated I am NOT proposing it be done all at once and instead over a number of years to lessen the cost burden. It’s there Rusty, you just have to turn your blinders off my man.

[RustytheBailiff]

You really seem delusional at times and perhaps I was wrong about you being a troll. If you read this thread it won’t take you very long to see just how many times I have specifically stated I am NOT proposing it be done all at once and instead over a number of years to lessen the cost burden. It’s there Rusty, you just have to turn your blinders off my man.

I generally have you on ignore, so I might have missed five pages of posts. However, you did say that "Even if the price tag came out to be 30 billion, it'd be worth it,"?


Do you have any idea of how much money $30 Billion is?

OG&E has 858,000 customers
$30 Billion divided by 858,000 is $34,965.03 per.

Do you want to write a check for $35,000 so they can bury the lines?

So we don't do it all at once -- lets just tack it onto the bill -- say we take 20 years to do it --

35000/20= 1750/12= $145.83

Do you want to pay an extra $143.83 per month for the next twenty years so you can have your lines buried?

Buried lines have a tendency to break occasionally and are effected by flooding and lightning. The cost to cure power outages with underground lines is also quite a bit more expensive that above ground lines. So besides the cost, there is little benefit to having lines buried.

Of course, $30 Billion today will be $50 Billion over 20 years. so add another $100 per month to that bill.

Why didn't you do a little research before starting this thread? You could have save everyone time. You suggestion is ludicrous.

[Plutonic Panda]

Rusty, I’m not going to keep around in circles. You keep mentioning the 30 billion dollar number and making irrelevant arguments around it. Just drop it.

[BigSully]

It's fine, Plutonic. We all stopped taking you seriously like 8 posts ago. You're clearly ignorant on the issue.

[RustytheBailiff]

Rusty, I’m not going to keep around in circles. You keep mentioning the 30 billion dollar number and making irrelevant arguments around it. Just drop it.

"I don't have an answer so I'm going to say you make irrelevant arguments." Just drop it.

It's amusing that you are so predictable.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yet here you are responding to me just to make an insult. Rusty, did you make a second account?

[Plutonic Panda]

"I don't have an answer so I'm going to say you make irrelevant arguments." Just drop it.

It's amusing that you are so predictable.

I already have answered and I’m not going to repeat myself over and over.

[BigSully]

I already have answered and I’m not going to repeat myself over and over.

So are you just proposing they do it over, what, 50 years instead? Give a reasonable answer, and people might respond reasonably, lol.

[jedicurt]

since so many on here seem to have a lot of number. i have a real legit question... does anyone know how much OG&E spends annually on Vegetation Management?

[Plutonic Panda]

So are you just proposing they do it over, what, 50 years instead? Give a reasonable answer, and people might respond reasonably, lol.

There’s this crazy concept called long-term planning it’s something that isn’t a strong point in mini Oklahoma towns and communities.

So what is reasonable to you doing it all at once and raising peoples bills by 800 per month? Or perhaps the only right answer is that we just can’t do it leave it as is and watch other communities and cities do it and continue to tell ourselves lies that we just don’t have what it takes.

Take me seriously or don’t, it makes no difference to me. I’ll continue writing to representatives, OGE, making my opinion known, and advocating for what I believe will make OKC and Oklahoma a better community and more attractive.

[RustytheBailiff]

Seems like another non-answer, par for the course.

[Plutonic Panda]

Seems like another non-answer, par for the course.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.p...68#post1145968