I-235 / I-44 Interchange

[Pete]

^

They couldn't do much more until they got rid of that one cloverleaf.

Hopefully, they'll start moving fast now.

[josh]

That SA stack is impressive. That is major infrastructure investment right there. Hopefully one day we will see more of these in OKC and Tulsa.

Yeah, it’s pretty impressive in person, esp with all the expansion of 281 north of this interchange.

The next five stack interchange is soon to begin construction about ten miles west of this interchange at 1604 and 10. After that, a major major five stack is planned for 10 and 410 on the east side. This one would kind of be a six stack interchange. It’s gonna be kind of insane.

[Plutonic Panda]

Speaking of five stack interchanges. The newest one in San Antonio opened last month on the far north side near Stone Oak.

That is absolutely amazing! Beautiful interchange and I can only hope we get something like that in OKC one day. TxDOT really knows how to build infrastructure. I’m not sure where about in the SA metro but I have heard TxDOT is proposing an even bigger stack with express lane flyovers. I can’t wait to visit SA as I still have yet to do so.

[jn1780]

Seems that westbound 44 to northbound 235 flyover has quite a lot still to be completed.

I think they could have westbound 44 to northbound 235 done within a month now. They only have a span or two of flyover left to build then they are on the ground.(They may put in some temp pavement just so they are not blocked by the over cloverleaf) The 63rd exit from the flyover will probably take some time as well as the main 63rd ramp coming from NB 235.

[rte66man]

If they haven't already done it, the NB to WB flyover is ready to be opened. When I was through on Friday, the signage was up and the roadway was striped.

UPDATE:
Yes, it is open.
https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/ne...ticle_id=61921

[Brett]

I drove the new flyover today. Speed limit is 35mph. Just make sure that you take the exit for 50th Street. There is no merge area when connecting to I-44.

[HOT ROD]

guys, unfortunately with OKC's grid and that the freeways are away from major streets - I don't think we'll see any five stacks other than perhaps here when/if they add the I-44 W to I-235 S Downtown flyover and if they ever correctly redo I-40/I-44; the other interchanges aren't really 4-way and/or don't intersect with major streets like what is shown in SA.

The REAL missed opportunity for a 5 or 6 maybe even 7 stack interchange was at I-40/I-35/I-235/OKC Blvd/Lincoln Blvd. That being the true Crossroads of America is a massive number of changes/streets that with flyovers could have been the nation's largest particularly if they had also built in HOV lanes from I-35 N into downtown. But here we are with multiple barely two stacks spaced over the huge acreage and the extremely unsafe I-40 E to I-235 N cliffhanger cloverleaf still existing right after the Norman/Dallas exit [very unsafe!!!!]. ...

Such a missed opportunity but I am hoping that ODOT will at least highlight OKC Blvd as the exit for Downtown Traffic. There needs to be a sign on I-40 E and at I-35N and I-40 W (maybe even I-235S) just prior to the blvd exits that say "Downtown" or "Oklahoma City Boulevard <br> Downtown" or even better "I-40 [HOV exit] Oklahoma City Boulevard <br> Downtown", the latter maybe will come later but we need to advertise that OKCB is the best exit for downtown since I-40 actually takes you away from it and now technically only has one exit.

I-5N into downtown Seattle has a split on the right where there are 'local' downtown exits on the 'spur' and one exit on the thru main highway, OKC Blvd does the same both directions E-W in all practical manners and therefore should be signed properly for Downtown..

[WitWhy]

ODOT must have had a 3rd grader design that 40/35/235 interchange. i mean, having 40 E go up and down a mountain grade while 40 W stays flat, a blind cloverleaf for 40 E to 235 N, making 35 N through traffic go to a single far right lane and exit to stay on 35 N, 35 S was crap for years but has since been improved but still on the left. what a garbage design

[Plutonic Panda]

That interchange will need a redo in the next decade or two and the cost will easily eclipse a billion and very possibly 2 billion if it is done correctly.

[riflesforwatie]

5-stack interchanges (like most of the U.S.'s generally overbuilt highway infrastructure) will be major white elephants 50 years from now. We should be thankful that our state's funding challenges have prevented us from going too far down the same road (pardon the pun) that Texas and some of the other Sun Belt states have. If online message boards had existed in the 1950s, there would've been a contingent waiting with bated breath for the Embarcadero Freeway in SF or the Alaskan Way Viaduct in Seattle or the Central Artery in Boston to be designed and built.

[Plutonic Panda]

Oh every piece of infrastructure required maintenance in the future. If we looked at costs to maintain subway tunnels too much they would never get built. Texas is already replacing multiple stack interchanges with no problem. Most other states are now following Texas with several NE states building stacks and Europe is building several massive stack interchanges as well.

[josh]

5-stack interchanges (like most of the U.S.'s generally overbuilt highway infrastructure) will be major white elephants 50 years from now. We should be thankful that our state's funding challenges have prevented us from going too far down the same road (pardon the pun) that Texas and some of the other Sun Belt states have. If online message boards had existed in the 1950s, there would've been a contingent waiting with bated breath for the Embarcadero Freeway in SF or the Alaskan Way Viaduct in Seattle or the Central Artery in Boston to be designed and built.

I don’t understand how you can say five stack interchanges are future white elephants. They’re not.

They’re very effective and their design is something that will need to be improved upon in twenty/thirty years.

[Plutonic Panda]

Generally just the RE/T or anti car crowd that paints any road project for cars as wasteful.

[josh]

This video shows what is planned for the entire northern arc of San Antonio’s outer loop, Loop 1604. Major expansion along that entire 25 mile segment including the above shown five stack interchange at 281 and 1604. But at 1 min and 30 seconds into the animation, it shows the next five Stack interchange, which will be at 10 and 1604.

[Plutonic Panda]

That is absolutely amazing. I hope OkDOT starts building those in the coming decades. That is what the I-35/240 interchange should be.

[rte66man]

That is absolutely amazing. I hope OkDOT starts building those in the coming decades. That is what the I-35/240 interchange should be.

Won't happen there because of the NE corner. It would cost big $$ to buy out all those businesses. And to bring this discussion back to the subject of this thread, it is the same reason there isn't a full stack at 235/44. That office building on the NW quadrant would have cost too much to remove.

[Plutonic Panda]

Won't happen there because of the NE corner. It would cost big $$ to buy out all those businesses. And to bring this discussion back to the subject of this thread, it is the same reason there isn't a full stack at 235/44. That office building on the NW quadrant would have cost too much to remove.

*Japan has entered the chat

[flyfisher07]

Pretty sure the reason the I235/I44 interchange doesn't have flyovers planned for S to E and W to S is due to the proximity of the Lincoln Blvd and I44 interchange and not having to acquire any buildings. It's so close to the I44/I235 interchange that there would have to be a ton of bridge work to separate traffic. In other words, there isn't enough distance to allow S to E traffic coming off the I44/I235 interchange to join down with the mainline I44 to then exit at Lincoln. Same goes for the Lincoln to W-bound I44 onramp mixing with the W to S flyover of I44/I235.

Could the engineers have made it work logistically, absolutely, but it would have significantly increased the cost and they would've had to do some redesign of the Lincoln/I44 interchange. Don't think those costs would've been reasonable to add to the budget considering this was already one of the most expensive interchanges in our history. Not to mention, there's also the question of traffic demand....does the traffic on those two motions at the I44/I235 interchange actually need/justify having flyovers. I wouldn't think so. Would I love to see them, absolutely, but reality kicks in and says we can't afford or justify them.

[OKCDrummer77]

Just had my first trip over the new flyover. While the lack of merge area at the end is concerning, it helps that you get a birds' eye view of the lanes you are about to merge with. While that may not be much help when the freeway is clogged at 5:00, at lighter times, you can see the traffic flowing on I-44 and anticipate where you can enter when you reach the end of the ramp.

[HOT ROD]

wow, does SA really have that much traffic? (serious question).

We (Seattle) have way more traffic given our lack of freeways yet no 5-stacks (also due to lack of freeways).

[SEMIweather]

San Antonio metro has 2.5 million people, and given that it's growing by ~400k/decade and how sprawled out it is I can definitely see why TXDOT is building 5-stacks there.

[Laramie]

ODOT needs to look a our two largest Metro Areas (OKC-TUL); the major interchanges should be built to accommodate future growth.

I-235 Kellogg to Central & I-235 Kellogg Red Project, Wichita, KS (K-DOT)

[josh]

wow, does SA really have that much traffic? (serious question).

We (Seattle) have way more traffic given our lack of freeways yet no 5-stacks (also due to lack of freeways).

San Antonio is a metro of over 2.5 million people and growing by 45k-50k a year. There are two major interstates running through the city and metro, I-10 and I-35. Not to mention two major perils that intersection many other auxiliary highways like 281, 90, 37, 151, etc.

San Antonio is also very spread out and very car dependent, as all of Texas is, so yes, we definitely have the traffic.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^Josh, just curious, what is SAs highest ADT count freeway? I think OKC’s is I-44 by the fairground pushing 230k cars a day.

[Lazio85]

^^^Josh, just curious, what is SAs highest ADT count freeway? I think OKC’s is I-44 by the fairground pushing 230k cars a day.

OKC's largest AADT is 167,200 on I-44 just south of Lake Hefner Pkwy/Hwy 74.
https://www.odot.org/maps/aadt/2018/...MetroAreas.pdf