Covid-19 in OKC (coronavirus)

[jerrywall]

The Moore and Edmond school boards are listening to politics, not science, in making their decisions to subject teachers, staff, and their families to this dreadful, deadly disease. This decision will literally kill teachers.

So I'm not familiar with Moore's plan, but what's the problem with Edmond's? They seem to be listening to the recommendations and I think they have a decent plan in place. Or is it just anything short of closing completely is unacceptable? And if that's the case, why call out these two school systems vs all the others that are opening and aren't taking near the steps Edmond is?

[soonerguru]

And probably a few children.

....and grandparents, and aunts and uncles. There are so many multigenerational households, particularly in the Hispanic community.

[soonerguru]

So I'm not familiar with Moore's plan, but what's the problem with Edmond's? They seem to be listening to the recommendations and I think they have a decent plan in place. Or is it just anything short of closing completely is unacceptable? And if that's the case, why call out these two school systems vs all the others that are opening and aren't taking near the steps Edmond is?

Just looking at the photo that is widely shared of that Georgia community, that was an even-odd, "blended model," like Edmond is pursuing. And to your question, no, I don't believe a "blended model" in which school children will be showing up to in-person classes, with teachers, is going to work, even if it's only part time. In-class school is not safe.

Moore's plan is, "Everything back to normal! Go Lions! Wear a mask if you want and if you're scared!"

I also don't believe it is going to work at the universities, either.

I'm calling those two major OKC suburban districts out because they are the only two that aren't starting out fully virtual, unless I'm mistaken.

[Ginkasa]

I thought Moore also offered an online only option, although I didn't look into it as my kids are going to Epic this year instead.

[jerrywall]

Just looking at the photo that is widely shared of that Georgia community, that was an even-odd, "blended model," like Edmond is pursuing. And to your question, no, I don't believe a "blended model" in which school children will be showing up to in-person classes, with teachers, is going to work, even if it's only part time. In-class school is not safe.

Moore's plan is, "Everything back to normal! Go Lions! Wear a mask if you want and if you're scared!"

I also don't believe it is going to work at the universities, either.

I'm calling those two major OKC suburban districts out because they are the only two that aren't starting out fully virtual, unless I'm mistaken.

I guess we'll just have to disagree there. I think it is possible, if done correctly, to have in school classes using these blended techniques, especially if completely online is offered, since many kids will take that. I do agree that it's more risk than going full virtual, but only in a bubble. In reality, I'm not so sure, since moving to full virtual will increase the days kids are in daycare and the exposure there is likely to be worse than at the schools. I don't think there's a zero risk solution so it's more about managing risks and going for the lowest level of risk possible.

Also, EPS is following the state protocols and recommendations, which are data driven - https://sde.ok.gov/sites/default/fil...0Protocols.pdf. If we want to argue if those gates are where they need to be between the levels or if the data is accurate, or anything else, then that's a separate discussion. But at the end of the day I'd rather have a school system following the guidelines that have come from the top down rather than go off of gut feeling or instinct.

Moore on the other hand, is just doing whatever they want from what you're saying.

[soonerguru]

I thought Moore also offered an online only option, although I didn't look into it as my kids are going to Epic this year instead.

True. My point is that there is no option whatsoever for teachers. I know one personally who is immune compromised and terrified she will have to choose between her job and her health.

[soonerguru]

I guess we'll just have to disagree there. I think it will possible, if done correctly to have in school classes, using these blended techniques, especially if completely online is offered, since many kids will take that. I do agree that it's more risk than going full virtual, but only in a bubble. In reality, I'm not so sure, since moving to full virtual will increase the days kids are in daycare and the exposure there is likely to be worse than at the schools. I don't think there's a zero risk solution so it's more about managing risks and going for the lowest level of risk possible.

Also, EPS is following the state protocols and recommendations, which are data driven - https://sde.ok.gov/sites/default/fil...0Protocols.pdf. If we want to argue if those gates are where they need to be between the levels or if the data is accurate, or anything else, then that's a separate discussion. But at the end of the day I'd rather have a school system following the guidelines that have come from the top down rather than go off of gut feeling or instinct.

Moore on the other hand, is just doing whatever they want from what you're saying.

Yes re: Moore. And I believe Edmond is doing this blended model for the same reason it isn't instituting a mask policy until the end of August: politics.

There is zero evidence this situation will be safe for teachers or staff -- or students. Safer, perhaps, but not safe. So yes, I will absolutely agree to disagree with you. Respectfully, of course.

[TheTravellers]

Not OKC, but school-related - absolutely ridiculous.

https://www.democracynow.org/2020/8/..._crowded_halls

[jerrywall]

True. My point is that there is no option whatsoever for teachers. I know one personally who is immune compromised and terrified she will have to choose between her job and her health.

All school districts should offer an opportunity for teachers to teach virtual only, if possible. I know my sisters district in Florida is allowing that (it might be a statewide thing). The trade off is that she isn't guaranteed to be teaching kids from her school district.

[LocoAko]

Just looking at the photo that is widely shared of that Georgia community, that was an even-odd, "blended model," like Edmond is pursuing. And to your question, no, I don't believe a "blended model" in which school children will be showing up to in-person classes, with teachers, is going to work, even if it's only part time. In-class school is not safe.

Moore's plan is, "Everything back to normal! Go Lions! Wear a mask if you want and if you're scared!"

I also don't believe it is going to work at the universities, either.

I'm calling those two major OKC suburban districts out because they are the only two that aren't starting out fully virtual, unless I'm mistaken.

Mustang has pushed back their start date but isn't beginning the year virtually for everyone (though virtual is an option they're offering).

[TheTravellers]

Just saw this, thought it was apt, not OKC-specific, but a blueprint for *all* schools on how/when to open.

The push to reopen schools is sheer madness — here are 4 key steps to doing it right

[jerrywall]

Just looking at the photo that is widely shared of that Georgia community, that was an even-odd, "blended model," like Edmond is pursuing.

To this point, I don't think you're correct. I believe Georgia allowed schools to offer "blended" but that blended is allowing some kids to choose and some kids to not choose. I couldn't find anything about them being even-odd. They also didn't require masks for those students in attendance, nor do they, I believe, do temperature checks. They also had a cutoff in mid July to sign up for virtual school, and there's a wait list to get on. This is absolutely completely different than how EPS is handling this.

Edmond is not only allowing the option of virtual or in person, but even for those who choose in-person, they will still only attend schools on either Mon-Tues or Thur-Fri with Wednesday used for cleaning and sanitizing between the two groups. Masks are required for EVERYONE in the schools, students and staff. Covid related illness are treated as severe medical conditions in regards to time off or student absences (which helps to encourage everyone to stay home when they're ill.) They're requiring daily temperature on all students as well (and self checks for staff). They've reworked the school schedule to accommodate an additional bus route cycle for middle schools, and staggering the start time for elementary schools, so that the busses can also accommodate social distancing (of a sorts) and masks will still be required on the busses, and the windows will be down as much as possible, plus assigned seating. This barely touches on all the steps EPS are going through to try to make this as safe as possible.

We may disagree where the right level of safety is, but to dismiss EPS efforts as politics and group them in with the political decisions of the city is a real disservice to them. I think they're doing a good job listening to the experts and the state organizations and following their recommendations and guidelines.

[BDP]

Just saw this, thought it was apt, not OKC-specific, but a blueprint for *all* schools on how/when to open.

The push to reopen schools is sheer madness — here are 4 key steps to doing it right

We are not trying to solve a school problem; we are trying to manage a public health crisis. Closed schools are only a symptom. Re-opening schools has been pushed as a way to get things back to normal. That is backwards. We have to get things back to normal so that we can re-open schools.

That kind of sums it up.

We're basically subjecting our students to a large widespread challenge trial, except that there's no controls and no actual treatment or vaccine being tested.

It sounds really callous to say, but maybe all those vaccine candidates looking for stage 3 subjects should just enlist our students and teachers. Right now, it's the one demographic that is being forced to being placed in an environment of likely transmission by government mandates.

[TheTravellers]

That kind of sums it up.

We're basically subjecting our students to a large widespread challenge trial, except that there's no controls and no actual treatment or vaccine being tested.

It sounds really callous to say, but maybe all those vaccine candidates looking for stage 3 subjects should just enlist our students and teachers. Right now, it's the one demographic that is being forced to being placed in an environment of likely transmission by government mandates.

Yep, and substitute almost literally anything for "schools" in that last sentence and that's how the US has gone wrong. Here's another good part of the article (I stopped posting excerpts because I got tired of people only reading the excerpts instead of the whole article. Of course, they might just skip the article altogether, but oh well, don't care):

"But there’s an even more fundamental question that underlies them all: Is the government of your state or city taking the pandemic seriously enough to start in-person schooling?

Here’s a rule of thumb: if your governor or mayor is allowing bars to open while schools are closed, the answer is no."

[Pete]

825 new cases today.

3 more reported deaths.

[silvergrove]

Coronavirus death toll is likely undercounted. This is CDC data (scroll to the bottom). There are 207,000 excess deaths so far on top of the official death counts. Not all of the excess deaths are related to the pandemic but likely a good majority is. You can see the seasonal trend from previous years, especially during winter months, from the influenza season. I hope you find this information useful.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

[Bill Robertson]

Coronavirus death toll is likely undercounted. This is CDC data (scroll to the bottom). There are 207,000 excess deaths so far on top of the official death counts. Not all of the excess deaths are related to the pandemic but likely a good majority is. You can see the seasonal trend from previous years, especially during winter months, from the influenza season. I hope you find this information useful.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

One of the few posts I’ve ever seen suggesting undercounting. Lots of people suggest they’re way overcounted. I wonder if years from now we’ll really know.

[soonerguru]

To this point, I don't think you're correct. I believe Georgia allowed schools to offer "blended" but that blended is allowing some kids to choose and some kids to not choose. I couldn't find anything about them being even-odd. They also didn't require masks for those students in attendance, nor do they, I believe, do temperature checks. They also had a cutoff in mid July to sign up for virtual school, and there's a wait list to get on. This is absolutely completely different than how EPS is handling this.

Edmond is not only allowing the option of virtual or in person, but even for those who choose in-person, they will still only attend schools on either Mon-Tues or Thur-Fri with Wednesday used for cleaning and sanitizing between the two groups. Masks are required for EVERYONE in the schools, students and staff. Covid related illness are treated as severe medical conditions in regards to time off or student absences (which helps to encourage everyone to stay home when they're ill.) They're requiring daily temperature on all students as well (and self checks for staff). They've reworked the school schedule to accommodate an additional bus route cycle for middle schools, and staggering the start time for elementary schools, so that the busses can also accommodate social distancing (of a sorts) and masks will still be required on the busses, and the windows will be down as much as possible, plus assigned seating. This barely touches on all the steps EPS are going through to try to make this as safe as possible.

We may disagree where the right level of safety is, but to dismiss EPS efforts as politics and group them in with the political decisions of the city is a real disservice to them. I think they're doing a good job listening to the experts and the state organizations and following their recommendations and guidelines.

You make some solid points here but I have no confidence all of these logistical gymnastics are going to make it safe for teachers and staff.

The CDC has been pressured into coming up with safe reopening guidelines, but I don't think they apply in a community where there is widespread community transmission of the virus.

Honestly, I wouldn't feel comfortable in an enclosed room with more than three or four people at this point based on what is being learned about transmission. This is an airborne virus. I don't care if they only have 10 or 15 kids in a room, when you consider the amount of time they are spending there you can easily compute the danger and futility of this situation, masks or not (and didn't Edmond make it mask optional?).

Regarding my political observations: I'm not trying to impugn the motives of Edmond administration, but it appears they are bending over backwards trying to appease conservatives who "just want things to go back to normal" when things are not in fact normal, and when we haven't done the things as a community we needed to do to get things back to normal.

Do you really think this is not going to lead to students, teachers, staff and family getting sick?

[Jersey Boss]

I find it more than ironic that schools can mandate all students wear ID badges in the name of safety and security but in the name of safety they won't mandate masks.
Hmmmm

[Pete]

^

And many schools -- public and private -- dictate strict uniforms.

[BDP]

^

And many schools -- public and private -- dictate strict uniforms.

Yep.

Basically, just add one line to the dress code and maybe save a few lives here and there.

[d-usa]

“We can’t make anybody wear masks. Hey you, I can see your knees in those shorts, go home and change!”

[Bill Robertson]

Yep.

Basically, just add one line to the dress code and maybe save a few lives here and there.

Even have masks made to match the uniforms. They’re a part of the uniform. I don’t see a problem.

[Jersey Boss]

Are there really that many public, non charter schools that mandate uniforms?
I don't know of any in Norman.
Whether or not kids are in civies or uniformed up, if the school is open and I'd badges are required of everyone than don't bs the public and say they don't have the authority. The administrators don't have the will or the interest of safety of those in the school.
This should apply to extra curricular activities as well.
Didn't the State Board empower the districts to make their own decision?
Another reason to mandate it is peer pressure. Kid comes to school wearing a mask and then is shamed.

[Scott5114]

If we get back down to a hundred a day before next spring I’ll do flips down my street. Possibly naked!

You should probably still wear your mask, at least... Just to be safe...