Covid-19 in OKC (coronavirus)

[LocoAko]

Not sure if this is overly political, but seems extremely relevant. And damning.

https://oklahoman.com/article/566791...vQeGctIUCMwSCg

The lack of leadership in all regards in favor of groveling is stunning. Elect a clown, expect a circus, I guess.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I haven't seen someone without a mask in Norman now for several weeks. Before the mandate there was always a few. Happy to see that.

[TheTravellers]

Stop, just stop, stop, stop, stop this stupid sh*t:

Mike Pence Met With Group Behind Viral Coronavirus Misinformation Video

Why doesn't Twitter and FB get a grip and ban/suspend people actively spreading verifiable mis/dis-information? It's criminal at this point to let some of this crap get disseminated. Ignoring the "But First Amendment, Rights, Free Country" replies that I'm sure will show up because they don't apply.

[jn1780]

I haven't seen someone without a mask in Norman now for several weeks. Before the mandate there was always a few. Happy to see that.

Yeah, sure. Hopefully people who were afraid to leave their house because others were not wearing masks don't get sick now.

Anyways, if we follow the same curve as Sweden, we will be in significantly better shape in 2 months.

Sweden sucked at protecting their elderly early on, but so did Europe and Northeast US.

[Pete]

We still have a huge percentage of people not wearing masks.

And if we send kids back to school en masse this fall, that will another huge super-spreader.


I don't think some cities finally mandating masks is going to knock this down very quickly. The horse is long out of the barn.

[PoliSciGuy]

We still have a huge percentage of people not wearing masks.

And we send kids back to school en masse this fall, that will another huge super-spreader.

There's little evidence that kids, especially elementary kids, serve as super-spreaders. If anything they spread it, and catch it, and are impacted by it, less than other age groups.

[Pete]

There's little evidence that kids, especially elementary kids, serve as super-spreaders. If anything they spread it, and catch it, and are impacted by it, less than other age groups.

"Less" is like saying only 2% of the people with the virus die.

When you are dealing with tens of millions, the numbers get huge fast even if the percentages are low.


And kids, BTW, have been far more protected than any other age group. They've been out of school since March and unlike older people, haven't been going to jobs and generally not going out to restaurants, bars and even churches.

[BDP]

Why doesn't Twitter and FB get a grip and ban/suspend people actively spreading verifiable mis/dis-information?

Mainly because that would contradict their fundamental algorithmic design.

FB and Twitter do not operate or exist to passively dispense information submitted to their platforms. Their goal is to use that content to maximize user interaction with their application. There is no virtuous or utilitarian motive built into anything they build. It is 100% about what you will engage in, and salacious conspiracy and manufactured controversy draws so much more engagement than a NOVA episode-like explanation of what's really happening.

They're misinformation drug dealers and we're a country of addicts.

[PoliSciGuy]

"Less" is like saying only 2% of the people with the virus die.

When you are dealing with tens of millions, the numbers get huge fast even if the percentages are low.

Sure, but for the under-10 set the flu is literally more deadly than Covid (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...g-schools.html), and in Sweden, which kept schools open as they went for the dumb herd immunity strategy, there was no case of a student infecting a staff member, findings that mirror findings in France (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ch-study-shows) or Iceland (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100).

So by "less" we really mean "almost never," not the hyperbolic 2%

[Bill Robertson]

We still have a huge percentage of people not wearing masks.

And if we send kids back to school en masse this fall, that will another huge super-spreader.


I don't think some cities finally mandating masks is going to knock this down very quickly. The horse is long out of the barn.

Hopefully the mask mandates stay in place for long enough to work and more people get used to the fact that mask wearing by EVERYONE will eventually knock this virus out. Eventually being 3, 6, 9, ? months or until a working vaccine is universally available.

[Pete]

France and Sweden are very different cultures than the U.S.

Neither one of those countries had nearly the issues with the virus we have. Just today, about 1,300 people died in the U.S. due to Covid-19. You know how many in France? 15. Sweden? 9.

And both those places never had the out-of-control situation we are experiencing right now, and one that is getting worse every day.


One thing this pandemic keeps telling us over and over is that the way we keep choosing to handle this virus has been far less effective than absolutely everywhere else in the world.

So, of course, school (where we pack in way more kids per class than everywhere else, among other key disadvantages) will be the one exception, right?

[PoliSciGuy]

Sweden had about the same number of casualties per million as we did and did *less* in terms of prevention than even we are doing. They average 19 kids per class, roughly the same as Oklahoma. So unless you’re suggesting that American kids are just epidemiologically more vulnerable that “different cultures” argument doesn’t really stand up to empirical scrutiny.

[Pete]

^ As we *DID*.

We are still ramping up and they are way, way past any real problem.

Sweden had less than 80,000 total cases. The U.S. currently has 4.5 MILLION and we are going to have a ton more before this is all over.

Even now -- well before we have even peaked here -- Sweden only had about half the per capita cases.


How do these things possibly compare?

[jdizzle]

Is the US testing wayyyy more than other countries, specifically per capita? If so, then it isn't fair to compare. How many asymptomatic people are walking around Germany now who don't get tested? I'm only curious, not taking a pro-anything side.

[Pete]

Is the US testing wayyyy more than other countries, specifically per capita? If so, then it isn't fair to compare. How many asymptomatic people are walking around Germany now who don't get tested? I'm only curious, not taking a pro-anything side.

We test more only because we have a virus raging out of control. All those other countries tested *more* but then backed off because people weren't showing symptoms, going to the hospital and dying like they are here. They got it under control; we did the exact opposite and therefore have tons of people still lining up to get tested.

All these things are completely correlated. Even though a good percentage of the cases are asymptomatic, the more people are infected, the more that show symptoms, get sick and die.

[TheTravellers]

Mainly because that would contradict their fundamental algorithmic design.

FB and Twitter do not operate or exist to passively dispense information submitted to their platforms. Their goal is to use that content to maximize user interaction with their application. There is no virtuous or utilitarian motive built into anything they build. It is 100% about what you will engage in, and salacious conspiracy and manufactured controversy draws so much more engagement than a NOVA episode-like explanation of what's really happening.

They're misinformation drug dealers and we're a country of addicts.

Unfortunately, yeah, if it bleeds, it leads...

[jedicurt]

There's little evidence that kids, especially elementary kids, serve as super-spreaders. If anything they spread it, and catch it, and are impacted by it, less than other age groups.

impacted by it, sure... but there is also little evidence that they spread it any less than any other age group. and in a country where about 3% of those kids are being raised by Grandparents who are over age 55 and in the group that this is most deadly too... that is a problem. a huge problem.

[Pete]

It's really pretty simple: We have a raging pandemic getting worse every day and that's with kids being completely out of school for almost 6 months.

Having schools and college reopen can't help. How much it will help spread the disease remains to be seen but 100% that it will make things worse. That was my point.

[Bill Robertson]

Unfortunately, yeah, if it bleeds, it leads...

Yeah. The only thing I get on FB for anymore is a group of us old farts that went to Sequoyah Elem together and use FB to stay in touch. FB has become nothing but a platform for mis-information and ads for **** that otherwise you only see on really late night TV. And FB used to be a really good place to connect with people. It’s degraded just like sooooooo many things in our society.

[PoliSciGuy]

impacted by it, sure... but there is also little evidence that they spread it any less than any other age group. and in a country where about 3% of those kids are being raised by Grandparents who are over age 55 and in the group that this is most deadly too... that is a problem. a huge problem.

This isn't true. I already linked to two studies that show that kids are hugely, significantly less likely to spread it into the home, and this pattern is borne out in other studies in other countries:

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronav...n-and-covid-19 " Based on source and contact tracing from the beginning of the epidemic, we see the following: looking at 10 COVID-19 patients who were <18 years old, they had 43 close contacts, and none of them became ill, whereas 8.3% (55/566) of the close contacts of the 221 patients who were ≥18 years old became ill.

https://www.cebm.net/study/covid-19-...nch-alps-2020/
"Subsequent to identifying the index case in a French holiday chalet, SARS-CoV-2 was detected in 11 additional people: 5 in France (including 1 child), 5 in England, 1 in Spain: overall attack rate in the chalet: 75%.

One paediatric case, with picornavirus and influenza A coinfection, visited 3 different schools while symptomatic. No resulting transmission was identified. "

https://pediatrics.aappublications.o...46/1/e20200961
"Among the 74 pediatric case patients included in this study, 68 had a definite exposure history, and 65 (95.59%) were household contacts of adults whose symptoms developed earlier. There has been no evidence showing the virus was transmitted from children to others."

https://pediatrics.aappublications.o...peds.2020-1576
"children do not seem to be a major vector of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission, with most pediatric cases described inside familial clusters6 and no documentation of child-to-child or child-to-adult transmission"

These are all peer-reviewed studies, and you can find similar outcomes from countries that stayed open and kept schools open.

[dankrutka]

Mainly because that would contradict their fundamental algorithmic design.

FB and Twitter do not operate or exist to passively dispense information submitted to their platforms. Their goal is to use that content to maximize user interaction with their application. There is no virtuous or utilitarian motive built into anything they build. It is 100% about what you will engage in, and salacious conspiracy and manufactured controversy draws so much more engagement than a NOVA episode-like explanation of what's really happening.

They're misinformation drug dealers and we're a country of addicts.

+1000

Social media platforms are biased toward profits, which tend to be determined by time on site and clicks. More extreme and outrageous content grabs attention. They are absolutely central to increases in polarization, misinformation, and extremism. They have helped spread health misinformation. They are central to US failures in many areas.

[dankrutka]

Unfortunately, yeah, if it bleeds, it leads...

Yeah, but unlike other media forms, these platforms are designed to not just share—but amplify—the type of garbage that wouldn’t have aired on TV or radio or newspaper (not letting these mediums off the hook, but they’re different).

[Bill Robertson]

It's really pretty simple: We have a raging pandemic getting worse every day and that's with kids being completely out of school for almost 6 months.

Having schools and college reopen can't help. How much it will help spread the disease remains to be seen but 100% that it will make things worse. That was my point.

Agree 100%. If there were more than 100% I would agree at that level. I’ve read a couple pieces lately about parents saying it’s imperative that schools open because their kids are not not getting normal exposure to normal experiences and aren’t progressing as they should because of this. What part of this is a worldwide pandemic like we’ve never seen don’t they get? Kids in past generations have had to deal with adversity. Prove that you’re parenting is equal to the parents of days past and teach your kids to deal with adversity. The lack of motivation in so many people to deal with something as serious to society as this virus is truly terrifying!

[Pete]

BTW, I am not advocating that schools remain completely closed.

It's a very complicated issue.

I'm just saying things are going very badly and jamming thousands of people together in educational settings all across the country is going to make it worse. I just hope it doesn't make much, much worse.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I don’t have much doubt schools will close again. Just takes a few teachers getting ill and it is all over. There isn’t much teacher back ups or subs so this will go quickly. Colleges are the same way.

Instead of spending the summer coming up with ideas to teach our kids they just waited it out hoping it would go away and here we are.

Not only will this hurt kids but parents are in a place on where their kids will be while they work. There really is a no win situation happening this semester.