Covid-19 Economic Impact

[jonny d]

You are completely misunderstanding the points from the last two posts.

How so? GoPokes said that European countries are more homogeneous in culture and people. You disagreed. I stated that I think each state in America has way different cultures and people, and gave examples of some of the extremes. In America, unfortunately, political beliefs are cultural talking points in 2020.

[Pete]

How so? GoPokes said that European countries are more homogeneous in culture and people. You disagreed. I stated that I think each state in America has way different cultures and people, and gave examples of some of the extremes. In America, unfortunately, political beliefs are cultural talking points in 2020.

He said European countries were more homogenous.

I made the point that decisions in Europe are made at the country level and here, on this issue, they are made on the state level. We are comparing European countries to U.S. states, not the U.S. overall.

You think Great Britain is more homogeneous than any U.S. state?

[jonny d]

He said European countries were more homogenous.

I made the point that decisions in Europe are made at the country level and here, on this issue, they are made on the state level. We are comparing European countries to U.S. states, not the U.S. overall.

You think Great Britain is more homogeneous than any U.S. state?

Politically, yes. In our country, people support decisions based off one man agreeing or disagreeing - Trump. In most, if not all, European countries, there are not chasms that wide. Socioeconomically, they may be as diverse as here.

[PoliSciGuy]

Politically, yes. In our country, people support decisions based off one man agreeing or disagreeing - Trump. In most, if not all, European countries, there are not chasms that wide. Socioeconomically, they may be as diverse as here.

As someone who teaches comparative politics, let me say this is an incredibly wrong proposition. Brexit almost tore about the UK, and regionalism remains strong there. Catalonia still wants independence from Spain. Germany is dealing with a rising, xenophobic far right that skates dangerously close to neo-naziism and took months to form a coalition government after the most recent election. Poland just elected a President whose campaign relied heavily on anti-semitic tropes. France has had protests since early January from the gilets jaunes and also have a rising threat from Marine Le Pen and the far right. Europe is just as divided as we are.

[Pete]

Politically, yes. In our country, people support decisions based off one man agreeing or disagreeing - Trump. In most, if not all, European countries, there are not chasms that wide. Socioeconomically, they may be as diverse as here.

For crying out loud. Look at Brexit and Boris Johnson in the UK.

Or the immigration controversy and Macron in France (huge riots); same for Merkel in Germany.

I know people living in those countries and they are strongly divided and not just by politics, but talk to people from Scotland or Northern Ireland about culture and being ruled by the government in London.


We are getting far afield. The whole point gopokes was making was that it was somehow easier for European countries to handle this Covid-19 mess than for a U.S. state to do so. And I find that idea absurd and without any basis in fact.

[Bill Robertson]

Wow! Discussions like this actually make me glad that I’m completely apolitical. I don’t give a flying crap what any person, politician or party thinks or doesn’t think simply based on affiliation. I just want what’s best for the health and wellness of my fellow human beings. And it makes me sad and scared that there are so many that don’t see life this way.

[gopokes88]

For crying out loud. Look at Brexit and Boris Johnson in the UK.

Or the immigration controversy and Macron in France (huge riots); same for Merkel in Germany.

I know people living in those countries and they are strongly divided and not just by politics, but talk to people from Scotland or Northern Ireland about culture and being ruled by the government in London.


We are getting far afield. The whole point gopokes was making was that it was somehow easier for European countries to handle this Covid-19 mess than for a U.S. state to do so. And I find that idea absurd and without any basis in fact.

Look at the general election results. Boris won in an absolute landslide.

89.7% of people in Germany are European excluding turkey.
76% are Germans.

That’s pretty homogeneous.

The argument is pretty simple and proves out.

1. European countries are smaller and less diverse. Your “diverse” example is still 75%, or basically Oklahoma.

2. As a result of this lack of diversity it’s easier to get people in line because they all, in general, are about the same.

Diversity in this country comes with drawbacks. The sheer size of it comes with drawbacks. It’s overall a net positive, but there are drawbacks particularly when you’re trying to get everyone on the same page. Not everyone here comes from the same family traditions, physical environments, language, etc.

[Pete]

^

You were comparing European countries to U.S. states, now you're talking about European countries and how they compare to the whole U.S.


Putting aside this silly argument, it's just yet another attempt to excuse away the absolutely catastrophic and epic failure of the U.S. when it comes to this disease.

Leadership --- plain and simple -- is the difference in Europe and the U.S., not some arcane unprovable theory about homogeneity.

Doesn't matter how diverse your population is (and I would strongly debate the points you keep making) if you have leaders who are in denial and claim they can't enforce decisions they aren't even willing to make in the first place.

[GoGators]

Look at the general election results. Boris won in an absolute landslide.

89.7% of people in Germany are European excluding turkey.
76% are Germans.

That’s pretty homogeneous.

The argument is pretty simple and proves out.

1. European countries are smaller and less diverse. Your “diverse” example is still 75%, or basically Oklahoma.

2. As a result of this lack of diversity it’s easier to get people in line because they all, in general, are about the same.

Diversity in this country comes with drawbacks. The sheer size of it comes with drawbacks. It’s overall a net positive, but there are drawbacks particularly when you’re trying to get everyone on the same page. Not everyone here comes from the same family traditions, physical environments, language, etc.

Just look to our neighbors to the north and your hypothesis crumbles. Canada is more diverse and larger than the US yet is in much better shape.

I really don’t know how size and diversity would actually effect the Covid response anyway, it’s not like information takes weeks to travel from North Carolina to Oregon. It’s not like a certain ethnicity is more or less likely to wear a mask. I don’t see how having a diverse population makes cleetus more incline to believe a mask mandate is a govt mind control ploy. Are you suggesting that if the US was more homogeneous people would be more willing to wear a mask and socially distance? Why?

[gopokes88]

^

You were comparing European countries to U.S. states, now you're talking about European countries and how they compare to the whole U.S.


Putting aside this silly argument, it's just yet another attempt to excuse away the absolutely catastrophic and epic failure of the U.S. when it comes to this disease.

Leadership --- plain and simple -- is the difference in Europe and the U.S., not some arcane unprovable theory about homogeneity.

Doesn't matter how diverse your population is (and I would strongly debate the points you keep making) if you have leaders who are in denial and claim they can't enforce decisions they aren't even willing to make in the first place.

I was comparing European countries to the US all along but reminding a big European country is still smaller than Texas. It’s an important footnote.

Second, it’s important because it’s easier to get homogenous population to pull in one direction than a massive geographically and culturally diverse population.

I never said the us response has been great, just that a smaller less country will have an easier time than a large, diverse country (founded on rebellion), it’s not the same starting point.

[gopokes88]

Just look to our neighbors to the north and your hypothesis crumbles. Canada is more diverse and larger than the US yet is in much better shape.

I really don’t know how size and diversity would actually effect the Covid response anyway, it’s not like information takes weeks to travel from North Carolina to Oregon. It’s not like a certain ethnicity is more or less likely to wear a mask. I don’t see how having a diverse population makes cleetus more incline to believe a mask mandate is a govt mind control ploy. Are you suggesting that if the US was more homogeneous people would be more willing to wear a mask and socially distance? Why?

Hahahahaha Hahahah hahaha

Canada is 81% white.

And I said diversity of CULTURE not race.

Oklahoma has a very different culture than NY which is different than Oregon which is different than New Mexico. In Europe each would be a different country with a different response to the virus based on each countries cultures and traditions. Here it’s a big mixing pot.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

Ack.

[Pete]

^

All countries are founded on rebellion.

And we aren't just doing a bit worse that can be explained by small and highly debatable cultural differences, we are exponentially worse off in every way and quickly accelerating downhill while all these other western countries -- that have almost nothing in common other than they don't have our leadership -- have things almost completely under control.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

Hahahahaha Hahahah hahaha

Canada is 81% white.

And I said diversity of CULTURE not race.

Oklahoma has a very different culture than NY which is different than Oregon which is different than New Mexico. In Europe each would be a different country with a different response to the virus based on each countries cultures and traditions. Here it’s a big mixing pot.

To be fair, the term homogeneous is vague.
Saying 76% of Germans are German is the same as saying 87% of Americans are American.
I'll yield my time to the learned poster with the degree in the field, PoliSciGuy.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

Except to also say that Belgium, a country comprised of a Walloon region, a Flemish region, a German zone, and a capital with 4 official languages, to say nothing of a vast Northern African migrant population will be fascinated to learn that they are not "culturally diverse".

[Rover]

I was comparing European countries to the US all along but reminding a big European country is still smaller than Texas. It’s an important footnote.

Second, it’s important because it’s easier to get homogenous population to pull in one direction than a massive geographically and culturally diverse population.

I never said the us response has been great, just that a smaller less country will have an easier time than a large, diverse country (founded on rebellion), it’s not the same starting point.

This shows a complete lack of knowledge about most countries in Europe. In many ways the population of countries like France, Spain, and Germany are way more diverse than in the US. The excuse-making for our lack of current leadership is lazy.

[TheTravellers]

Diversity, homogeneity, and ethnic culture aren't the problem with the US's pathetic situation, it's stupid people believing stupid (or greedy or ignorant, or whatever derogatory term you prefer) "leaders" that have no clue what they're doing.

[GoGators]

Hahahahaha Hahahah hahaha

Canada is 81% white.

And I said diversity of CULTURE not race.

Oklahoma has a very different culture than NY which is different than Oregon which is different than New Mexico. In Europe each would be a different country with a different response to the virus based on each countries cultures and traditions. Here it’s a big mixing pot.

You don't think Quebec and Alberta have completely different cultures? Saskatchewan and Ontario?

[jerrywall]

You don't think Quebec and Alberta have completely different cultures? Saskatchewan and Ontario?

If you're gonna make up place names, at least make them believable? Saskatchewan? Right. This isn't game of thrones.

Everyone knows that all culture north of Minnesota amounts to crappy beer, hockey, flannel, and for some reason, sweeping (I guess they like really clean floors up north). Seems pretty homogenous to me.

[Jersey Boss]

If you're gonna make up place names, at least make them believable? Saskatchewan? Right. This isn't game of thrones.

Everyone knows that all culture north of Minnesota amounts to crappy beer, hockey, flannel, and for some reason, sweeping (I guess they like really clean floors up north). Seems pretty homogenous to me.

I don't care how many limes ya stuff into the bottle, I'll take Canadian brew over Mexican cerveza anyday. Water flows north to south, lol.

[Rover]

If you're gonna make up place names, at least make them believable? Saskatchewan? Right. This isn't game of thrones.

Uh.... Not sure if you are trying to be funny, but:

Saskatchewan is a Canadian province that borders the United States to the south. Grassland covers its southern plains, and to the north are the rugged rock of the Canadian Shield plateau, coniferous forests, rivers and lakes. Regina, the provincial capital, is home to the Royal Saskatchewan Museum, with exhibits on natural history and the people of Canada’s First Nations.
Capital: Regina
Population: 1.174 million (2019) StatCan

[TheTravellers]

Uh.... Not sure if you are trying to be funny, but:

Saskatchewan is a Canadian province that borders the United States to the south. Grassland covers its southern plains, and to the north are the rugged rock of the Canadian Shield plateau, coniferous forests, rivers and lakes. Regina, the provincial capital, is home to the Royal Saskatchewan Museum, with exhibits on natural history and the people of Canada’s First Nations.
Capital: Regina
Population: 1.174 million (2019) StatCan

[jerrywall]

I honestly thought that surely it wasn't needed here... I thought I was pretty funny but I guess not. I guess my kids are right.

[TheTravellers]

nm, wrong thread, reposted to OKC thread.

[Mott]

I honestly thought that surely it wasn't needed here... I thought I was pretty funny but I guess not. I guess my kids are right.

And so is my wife.....