Tesla in Tulsa

[mugofbeer]

Why haven't we heard more about Oklahoma's incentives package?

Typically, all this is done behind closed doors and the public doesn't hear until final announcements decisions been made. Economic development deals are often called off if incentive details go public. They often are even handled under code names.

[jonny d]

Austin is being very open with theirs. I wonder if Oklahoma and Tulsa are being quiet because it doesn't really compare? Either way, Austin schools just agreed to the property tax issue, so that is possibly the final nail in the Tesla to Tulsa coffin, unfortunately.

[Pete]

Typically, all this is done behind closed doors and the public doesn't hear until final announcements decisions been made. Economic development deals are often called off if incentive details go public. They often are even handled under code names.

And we almost never know unless we 'win' and then the arrangement has to be approved by public bodies.

Most incentive packages are negotiated and offered without citizens ever knowing the details.

[Jersey Boss]

And we almost never know unless we 'win' and then the arrangement has to be approved by public bodies.

Most incentive packages are negotiated and offered without citizens ever knowing the details.

If you don't have a compliant majority of voters, the deal blows up in the face of those putting the deal together. Amazon and NYC found this out the hard way. I'm guessing the political culture of Austin calls for more openness and less surprises.

[BG918]

Austin is being very open with theirs. I wonder if Oklahoma and Tulsa are being quiet because it doesn't really compare? Either way, Austin schools just agreed to the property tax issue, so that is possibly the final nail in the Tesla to Tulsa coffin, unfortunately.

Travis County still has to approve it this week. I think Tesla will announce after that. My prediction is the truck factory goes to Austin and either battery and/or semi factory goes to Tulsa. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tesla HQ eventually relocate to Austin.

[king183]

I can’t figure out why we’re still speculating as if Tulsa is in the running for this. I realize Musk visited with the governor on a proposed site, but that was obviously for PR reasons. The Austin location was decided a while ago and the signs are all there: the various jurisdictions in Austin (e.g., school districts, counties, etc.) are going through the final motions of arranging the incentives because they had already been negotiated; Tesla has purchased a site and begun basic prep work; local politicians in Austin are feeling more comfortable letting out the word as they prep for the inevitable backlash from certain constituencies who oppose the move.

Tulsa simply isn’t getting the site. I think GoPokes had it right that Tulsa will be the front runner for a separate site to be announced in a few years.

[Rattle Trap]

Tesla has not purchased land in Austin. While Austin is likely the frontrunner, Elon and his team have and are still legitimately considering Tulsa. I have a couple reliable sources telling me Tesla officials have been working through logistics with Tulsa officials, timeliness, etc. on a daily basis. Also, things like incentive deals are kept under secrecy until an announcement has been made. Thags how major companies loke Tesla like to operate.

So Tulsa is still very much in the running. Tesla is going to wait until Travis County approves everything else then make their decision based on all the information.

[hoya]

My guess is that the recent McGirt Supreme Court decision probably sinks Tulsa’s hopes. Nobody has any idea how that is going to play out yet.

[jdizzle]

My guess is that the recent McGirt Supreme Court decision probably sinks Tulsa’s hopes. Nobody has any idea how that is going to play out yet.

Why would that affect this decision, in any way? I understood that to mean that the sole thing that changed was that crimes in those areas are now federal, not state. But I might be wrong. But it should have zero affect on this.

[Rover]

Why would that affect this decision, in any way? I understood that to mean that the sole thing that changed was that crimes in those areas are now federal, not state. But I might be wrong. But it should have zero affect on this.

It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

[jdizzle]

It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

Meh. I don't think it will go that far, but who knows.

[Rover]

Meh. I don't think it will go that far, but who knows.

May not, but this ruling was already a surprise to the entrenched. And all it is saying is that legal agreements should be upheld, regardless of how long ago they were made or what has happened since. Either we believe in the ideals of a nation ruled by laws or we don't. We don't make America great by ignoring its espoused principals or turning our backs on the wronged.

[jedicurt]

May not, but this ruling was already a surprise to the entrenched. And all it is saying is that legal agreements should be upheld, regardless of how long ago they were made or what has happened since. Either we believe in the ideals of a nation ruled by laws or we don't. We don't make America great by ignoring its espoused principals or turning our backs on the wronged.

lets also not forget what this might mean... there is a good chance that if it is creek nation land, they might actually be able to offer even greater incentives. Several of the smaller Co-Ops around the state that are on tribal lands were able to see significant tax benefits at the federal level based upon an agreement to always employ a certain number of the tribe at any given time. There is a chance that now incentives could be offered that were never possible before and could be the thing that throws it over the to Tulsa having the better proposal.

[gopokes88]

SCOTUS decision isn't a factor from what I'm told.

[mugofbeer]

It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

I don't know if what you say is based on what the OU Law Prof., who is apparently an authority on these matters, was quoted as saying. He pretty much said the same thing.

[HangryHippo]

It’s also been reported that the tribes have been working collectively on plans that address these issues and are working to get the framework submitted for negotiation and approval.

[PhiAlpha]

It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

I will agree with you on everything other than deeds and private land ownership, which this decision will not in any way affect.

[Bunty]

I would think Tesla to be in Tulsa would want a deal where no Oklahoma income taxes would have to be paid for a good while, since Texas does not have income taxes. I suppose a deal like that wouldn't require the state legislature to meet to approve of it. My guess Tesla would also want out of property taxes.

[mugofbeer]

Travis County voted to give Tesla $14.7 million in tax breaks.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/texa...ar-austin.html

[mugofbeer]

I would think Tesla to be in Tulsa would want a deal where no Oklahoma income taxes would have to be paid for a good while, since Texas does not have income taxes. I suppose a deal like that wouldn't require the state legislature to meet to approve of it. My guess Tesla would also want out of property taxes.

Texas doesn't have an income tax but does have a gross receipts tax. I haven't looked to see how this works exactly or if Travis County can give a break on this. Texas property taxes are far higher than thosevin OK so l imagine this is where the bulk of the incentives would come from.

Since OKs rate isn't as high as TX, it wouldn't have to be as large an incentive to get the same thing.

[BG918]

Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore? And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?

https://oklahoman.com/article/314444...al-on-holdspan

Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.

[Swake]

Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore? And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?

https://oklahoman.com/article/314444...al-on-holdspan

Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.

Navistar IC Tulsa?

[BG918]

Navistar IC Tulsa?

I was thinking along the lines of GM in OKC and Ford Glass/Zeledyne in Broken Arrow.

[mugofbeer]

Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore? And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?

https://oklahoman.com/article/314444...al-on-holdspan

Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.

Sometimes things happen for a reason. Just like how OKC is far better off investing in MAPS rather than giving huge amounts to United Airlines or Micron Technology. Looking back it might have been a good thing to have not built an auto plant in pre-mortgage bust 2007, especially a Chinese company. Just like United's maintenane plant and Micron's chip plant in Utah, that auto plant may have shut down no sooner than it opened.

[Anonymous.]

Confirmed for Austin today in their ER call.