2020 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[gopokes88]

Could be worse. Could own a high end apartment in NY

[catch22]

OKC picked the wrong year(s) to be productive. The new CC has a chance to fail, and they are expanding the airport, when airlines are shrinking routes everywhere. This is not an OKC issue alone, of course. Just the timing couldn't be worse. But that is OKC's thing.

Well you have to do it sometime. DEN is spending billions expanding the main terminal and all 3 concourses. SLC is completely rebuilding their airport top to bottom. MCO is undergoing a significant expansion. You have to get both feet in the water at some time. SLC is taking advantage of the situation by advancing the construction timeline since they will have less flights, so less disruption by construction.

[jdizzle]

Well you have to do it sometime. DEN is spending billions expanding the main terminal and all 3 concourses. SLC is completely rebuilding their airport top to bottom. MCO is undergoing a significant expansion. You have to get both feet in the water at some time. SLC is taking advantage of the situation by advancing the construction timeline since they will have less flights, so less disruption by construction.

That is true. But all of those airports are hubs or focus cities that airlines want to keep developing. OKC is a disposable market, especially when oil is $35/bbl. OKC should have had deals in place for new routes before building. Granted, a pandemic was not predicted. But airlines are probably figuring which cities are profitable and worth growing, and OKC is NOT one, in my opinion. Not enough business travelers.

[catch22]

I'd argue that American has been developing OKC into a focus city of some sort. At the end of the day the airlines pay for this through increased rent, landing fees, and passenger facility charges (paid by the passenger). Cost-per-enplanement is very important to the airlines, and they don't typically agree to airports spending money needlessly that the airlines eventually pay for by increased CPE. Any major project like this will have significant airline approval before proceeding.

[d-usa]

Could it be a benefit to have fewer people impacted by the construction?

[jonny d]

I'd argue that American has been developing OKC into a focus city of some sort. At the end of the day the airlines pay for this through increased rent, landing fees, and passenger facility charges (paid by the passenger). Cost-per-enplanement is very important to the airlines, and they don't typically agree to airports spending money needlessly that the airlines eventually pay for by increased CPE. Any major project like this will have significant airline approval before proceeding.

They were, then they take away a prized route for OKC. And OKC awarded 4 new gates to an airline that doesn't give 2 craps about OKC, other than getting more handouts from them. I hope it works out for OKC, but the timing, aside from a construction standpoint, could not have been worse. The travel market will plummet in the fall and winter, at least by air, in my opinion. Especially since there is nowhere to go.

[catch22]

I don't know what to tell you guys - if anyone can see into the future they have a promising career ahead of them in consulting or weather forecasting. I think the timing is fine. Losing PHL sucks, but you have to look at everything else AA has added in the past few years. Aside from BOS, they have pretty much completed OKC's wishlist. And PHL will likely return when transatlantic yields return.

[jonny d]

I don't know what to tell you guys - if anyone can see into the future they have a promising career ahead of them in consulting or weather forecasting. I think the timing is fine. Losing PHL sucks, but you have to look at everything else AA has added in the past few years. Aside from BOS, they have pretty much completed OKC's wishlist. And PHL will likely return when transatlantic yields return.

I was not bashing you, as you have much more industry experience than I do. Just from the outside looking in, I can see the expansion bankrupting the airport, if those gates stay empty (and the corresponding gates Delta currently has not getting replaced by new airlines or expanded services). I will give OKC the benefit of the doubt, and I hope it benefits us here greatly!

[catch22]

All in all, it's not that much money. These are long term bonds that won't be influenced by the revenue from short term passengers trends. The airport spends a lot of money on its own pet projects such as the taxiways to nowhere (the FAA provided some funding for this) on the east side of the field.

[HangryHippo]

All in all, it's not that much money. These are long term bonds that won't be influenced by the revenue from short term passengers trends. The airport spends a lot of money on its own pet projects such as the taxiways to nowhere (the FAA provided some funding for this) on the east side of the field.

Catch - why are they doing that?

[catch22]

Catch - why are they doing that?

What? Those east taxiways? I think they were planning ahead for future growth over there. My prediction is that by the time they are fully utilized it will be time to repour the concrete. I think the only thing they have ever been used for was parking those dozen SkyWest (Delta and United) regional jets on recently.

[HangryHippo]

Yes, sorry. I should’ve specified. The east taxiways. Thanks for the response.

[gopokes88]

That is true. But all of those airports are hubs or focus cities that airlines want to keep developing. OKC is a disposable market, especially when oil is $35/bbl. OKC should have had deals in place for new routes before building. Granted, a pandemic was not predicted. But airlines are probably figuring which cities are profitable and worth growing, and OKC is NOT one, in my opinion. Not enough business travelers.

This is a little hyperbolic. Bigger the hub the more to lose.

And for the millionth time, okc is a govt and govt contractor time. Oilfield guys make the big bucks, but the base is govt.

[gopokes88]

I'd argue that American has been developing OKC into a focus city of some sort. At the end of the day the airlines pay for this through increased rent, landing fees, and passenger facility charges (paid by the passenger). Cost-per-enplanement is very important to the airlines, and they don't typically agree to airports spending money needlessly that the airlines eventually pay for by increased CPE. Any major project like this will have significant airline approval before proceeding.

For the 6 cities I fly to consistently AA is unbelievably convenient schedule wise. Hopefully they become more customer service and passenger friendly but the schedule is A+. Once SW dropped DFW I pretty much fly AA exclusively.

[HangryHippo]

For the 6 cities I fly to consistently AA is unbelievably convenient schedule wise. Hopefully they become more customer service and passenger friendly but the schedule is A+. Once SW dropped DFW I pretty much fly AA exclusively.

Same here, go pokes. Their schedule offerings were the best out of OKC.

[gopokes88]

Same here, go pokes. Their schedule offerings were the best out of OKC.

You hope whoever the guy that clearly had some power is still around post layoffs. Some of this is all about how you interpret the data, and clearly we had a fan.

[no1cub17]

You hope whoever the guy that clearly had some power is still around post layoffs. Some of this is all about how you interpret the data, and clearly we had a fan.

Depends on which guy you're referring to. Sucks that it may take a pandemic, but I can't wait for Dougie P to be gone.

[catch22]

I think their strategy isn't OKC centric, but replicating out of DFW what DL does in ATL to small markets in immediate proximity to that hub. It's not just to win the spoke segment to Atlanta, it's about being the carrier of choice in those cities. AA seems to be, or was, strengthening their presence in OKC along those lines. Make a 400 mile perimeter around DFW where AA is the airline of choice, regardless if you even touch DFW. They can funnel low-yield traffic through DFW, while offering a prime selection of non-stop flights at a premium with low-risk of irregular operations, with 10 daily flights to DFW you can rescue most passengers in the event OKC-LAX cancels etc.

But hopefully they will continue to keep that strategy moving forward.

[catch22]

Nothing surprising here

May down 85% YOY

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

June down 73% YOY

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/fil...nplanement.pdf

YTD down over 50%

[gopokes88]

Well at least we know may is the bottom.

Alaska really isn’t that far down. Bodes well for keeping the SEA flight.

American and SW bouncing back (relatively), United and delta lagging.

[catch22]

United has some big layoffs coming per reports. Catch, any word?

just received my layoff notice (to the street) just over 5 years since my last one when they closed OKC

[HangryHippo]

Damn, Catch. Very sorry.

[Jersey Boss]

just received my layoff notice (to the street) just over 5 years since my last one when they closed OKC

Very surprised to hear this. I thought those who took ppp money were obligated to keep their workforce till October. Condolences. I hope that assistance will continue past July 31.

[gopokes88]

Very surprised to hear this. I thought those who took ppp money were obligated to keep their workforce till October. Condolences. I hope that assistance will continue past July 31.

I think because he’s Union that have to give a pretty long lead time notice. Probably isn’t effective till October.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

just received my layoff notice (to the street) just over 5 years since my last one when they closed OKC

Man, I am very sorry to hear this. This thread works largely because of you. Thanks for all your hard work.