Covid-19 in OKC (coronavirus)

[TheTravellers]

If not, then I have terrible luck. Again, I will NOT take a super rushed vaccine for anything. There are promises of a vaccine in less than 9 months since inception. Forget that. Some can take decades. For a virus with so many unknowns (this thread states as much), how can a vaccine be created in 8 months?

OK, I know you didn't have time to read (or even skim) all (or any of) those, so here's the gist - you probably just had an immune response reaction, not the flu (and no, I don't know that for sure because I'm not you). Also, vaccine takes two weeks to work, so there is a window of opportunity for the flu to get you, also could've been another strain, or a bad reaction (Mayo link has this info), or some other illness. Neither me nor my wife had ever had a flu vaccine until last year and we both got one and were perfectly fine afterwards. Even if we got sick/felt unwell, we'd likely still be getting it this year again (and from now on) because we believe in proven science.

[Pete]

I get a flu shot every year and haven't had it since I started doing so over 20 years ago.

[jonny d]

OK, I know you didn't have time to read (or even skim) all (or any of) those, so here's the gist - you probably just had an immune response reaction, not the flu (and no, I don't know that for sure because I'm not you). Also, vaccine takes two weeks to work, so there is a window of opportunity for the flu to get you, also could've been another strain, or a bad reaction (Mayo link has this info), or some other illness. Neither me nor my wife had ever had a flu vaccine until last year and we both got one and were perfectly fine afterwards. Even if we got sick/felt unwell, we'd likely still be getting it this year again (and from now on) because we believe in proven science.

I did test positive for the flu about 2 months after getting the vaccine. And I was sick as a dog. Only time I missed any college classes (this was about 10 years ago). Who knows why, but I got it, not the reaction, since it was so far after. I am not questioning the efficacy of the vaccine, just that I won't risk it until it has been studied on a large scale (i.e. given to millions).

[Pete]

Interestingly, you can already see how the decision to not take a vaccine is falling along political lines.

[jonny d]

Interestingly, you can already see how the decision to not take a vaccine is falling along political lines.

How so? I am registered to the party that most likely WOULD get the vaccine. In general, maybe so. But I must be the exception (did not mean to make it political, but the door was already opened).

[TheTravellers]

Interestingly, you can already see how the decision to not take a vaccine is falling along political lines.

As I've said during this whole thing, we seem to be the stupidest country in the world...

[OKC Talker]

As already stated, any widely approved vaccine would have to follow the same testing as any other.

It's being developed quickly because the U.S. and other countries are pouring in billions and there are billions to be made on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies.

I was as concerned as a lot of people when I heard about "Operation Warp Speed" but from what I understand about it now, it's misguided, a waste of money, and may not be effective, but it shouldn't affect safety. Basically, the government is expediting approvals and letting companies do Phase 2 and Phase 3 clinical trials simultaneously so that the data collection and analysis process which can take years is finished in months. They're also giving the companies billions of dollars to start manufacturing the vaccines now before the clinical trials are done.

Waste of money: It's virtually guaranteed that millions will be spent manufacturing at least one vaccine which doesn't work and will have to be thrown away
Misguided: The vaccine candidates for the program were picked by who would be "first to market" instead of who had the best track record
Not Effective: Standards have been set where the threshold for immunity is in the area of 50% and measured in months instead of years

The risk is that with speed being the main focus, a more effective vaccine doesn't get the attention and investment it needs, but there are literally hundreds of vaccines being developed and trillions of dollars being invested so eventually something better will come along. People may end up first getting a vaccine that only provides them partial protection for a limited period (which doesn't mean it's not safe and that it won't lessen the severity of their symptoms), and then have to get a different vaccine a few months to a year later.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...886_story.html

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...-is-ready-cvd/

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/...arp-speed.html

[FighttheGoodFight]

I have always found anti-vaxers to be the far right and far left of each party. Basically the people who are very far out of each way generally believe vaccines are evil/cause disease. It is pretty sad honestly that this has taken place. Not just in the US this is a global thing that many other countries deal with as well.

[jonny d]

As I've said during this whole thing, we seem to be the stupidest country in the world...

I am not anti-vax. Never will be, either. I just don't want to get a rushed vaccine that will be skipping protocols to get to market quicker. Just my stupid opinion, though. I am just a dumb Oklahoma CPA working towards his MBA.

[PoliSciGuy]

I have always found anti-vaxers to be the far right and far left of each party. Basically the people who are very far out of each way generally believe vaccines are evil/cause disease. It is pretty sad honestly that this has taken place. Not just in the US this is a global thing that many other countries deal with as well.

This doesn't align with the data. In general, anti-vaxxers are predominantly conservative:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5784985/

This has just gotten worse since the Trump era, given that Trump himself promoted anti-vaccination conspiracy theories like vaccines cause autism

[LocoAko]

I did test positive for the flu about 2 months after getting the vaccine. And I was sick as a dog. Only time I missed any college classes (this was about 10 years ago). Who knows why, but I got it, not the reaction, since it was so far after. I am not questioning the efficacy of the vaccine, just that I won't risk it until it has been studied on a large scale (i.e. given to millions).

You could very well have had it, as the flu vaccine isn't 100% effective. The point Travellers is trying to get ahead of is that the vaccine didn't give you the flu.

[FighttheGoodFight]

596 today. I wonder if we will keep seeing cases during the week around 600. Scary.

[TheTravellers]

I am not anti-vax. Never will be, either. I just don't want to get a rushed vaccine that will be skipping protocols to get to market quicker. Just my stupid opinion, though. I am just a dumb Oklahoma CPA working towards his MBA.

Wasn't directed at you personally (hence "country"), just at the US population as a whole. And I agree a rushed vaccine can be problematic. And thanks for getting an MBA, one more to add to the "educated more than high school" population here in OK.

[Pete]

596 new cases.
56 new hospitalizations
6 additional deaths

[d-usa]

Based on the interactions I’ve had at my workplace, some people have no clue how vaccines work.

[jonny d]

You could very well have had it, as the flu vaccine isn't 100% effective. The point Travellers is trying to get ahead of is that the vaccine didn't give you the flu.

Oh, I never meant to imply that it did. I meant to say that vaccines are, even when well-established like the flu vaccine, subject to failure. So one that is rushed like the COVID vaccine is being, might have a higher chance at not being effective.

[Pete]

11,500 new cases in Florida today, a new record.

And Arizona with 4,500 on a much small population base. At this rate, they will soon have more per capita cases than any other state.

Fewer than 1,000 ICU beds available in Texas.

[Bill Robertson]

I know the flu vaccine can’t give you the flu. 100% on board. But I can feel jonny d’s point. For years I wouldn’t get a flu shot because dad contracted Guillian-Barre syndrome in 1979 and it was possibly attributable to that years flu shots. He spent the rest of his life in bed or a wheelchair. Then in maybe 2000ish when my wife worked at Hertz they gave free flu shots to employees and spouses. Got the shot two years and both years I got something a couple weeks later. Not a reaction. A curled up in the fetal position wishing God would take me now sick. Couldn’t keep water down for 3 or 4 days. Stopped getting them until a couple years ago when my doctor strongly suggested a 60 year old should get the flu shot, backed up by my hips replacement surgeon suggesting it’s a good idea because the flu could become a bacterial infection if it went into pneumonia. And that can be VERY bad. So two years of flu shots with no issues at all. I’m sure the other 2 times were pure coincidence.

[TheTravellers]

11,500 new cases in Florida today, a new record.

And Arizona with 4,500 on a much small population base. At this rate, they will soon have more per capita cases than any other state.

Fewer than 1,000 ICU beds available in Texas.

So I was wondering this when our esteemed governor said "we're fine, we have tons of ICU beds across the state" - what happens when all the ICU beds in OKC and Tulsa are full and there are still ICU beds in McAlester or Guymon (just random picks) - do they send COVID-19 patients all the way across the state to those? And yep, am aware that not all ICUs are equal, so wondering also how that plays into it?

[Pete]

^

They would likely try and scramble and set up temporary facilities.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

So I was wondering this when our esteemed governor said "we're fine, we have tons of ICU beds across the state" - what happens when all the ICU beds in OKC and Tulsa are full and there are still ICU beds in McAlester or Guymon (just random picks) - do they send COVID-19 patients all the way across the state to those? And yep, am aware that not all ICUs are equal, so wondering also how that plays into it?

Utilization of ICU beds is written into hospital disaster preparedness policy (assuming a JCAHO hospital). Keep in mind not all Covid 19 patients will require ICU level care, and not all ICU patients are Covid patients.
The problem in the smallest hospitals is how to separate that. One option is to actually transfer your few ICU covid patients to a larger town with a dedicated Covid 19 ICU (separate ventilation system, etc). You run the risk of exposing the healthcare workers doing the transport, but it's an option on the table.
This whole pandemic is really showing off the weaknesses in a fractured healthcare delivery system.

[securityinfo]

And maybe wave his magic wand and create enough appropriate Dr.'s, Nurses, ICU Specialists, folks that run the "hundreds if not thousands" of vents we have "stockpiled", etc. It's a hell of a lot of strain on the just-in-time system, and we will not be getting a lot of help from our neighbor states that have undergone this massive uptick. Oh, and let's not forget about the folks who are not making payments to mortgages (Hey, Gateway, how are you helping? Really?) and other debt... more homeless? We had better get "personally responsible" PDQ.

[TheTravellers]

Utilization of ICU beds is written into hospital disaster preparedness policy (assuming a JCAHO hospital). Keep in mind not all Covid 19 patients will require ICU level care, and not all ICU patients are Covid patients.
The problem in the smallest hospitals is how to separate that. One option is to actually transfer your few ICU covid patients to a larger town with a dedicated Covid 19 ICU (separate ventilation system, etc). You run the risk of exposing the healthcare workers doing the transport, but it's an option on the table.
This whole pandemic is really showing off the weaknesses in a fractured healthcare delivery system.

Thanks for the info, and yes, showing off the weaknesses of not only our healthcare system, but the entire capitalist structure our country is built on.

[Pete]

Net hospitalizations went up by 34 today.

5.2% positive test rate.

[d-usa]

Utilization of ICU beds is written into hospital disaster preparedness policy (assuming a JCAHO hospital). Keep in mind not all Covid 19 patients will require ICU level care, and not all ICU patients are Covid patients.
The problem in the smallest hospitals is how to separate that. One option is to actually transfer your few ICU covid patients to a larger town with a dedicated Covid 19 ICU (separate ventilation system, etc). You run the risk of exposing the healthcare workers doing the transport, but it's an option on the table.
This whole pandemic is really showing off the weaknesses in a fractured healthcare delivery system.

The fact that we need sick people for hospitals to make a profit and stay open is a very messed up problem.

As for ICUs, that’s an issue that contributes to the problems and deaths with this. People like to point out that “shutting stuff down kills people because suicides”, but often those same people ignore the fact that an over stressed healthcare system will lead to increases in deaths from many other diseases.