Facemask Mandate

[mattjank]

Agree with the policy though it’s a bit ironic that they’re giving the police one more thing to enforce after cutting their funding by 3% for no good reason other than virtue signaling...as evidenced by the fact that even after an 11 hour meeting and now several weeks...they still don’t know what they want to reallocate the funding to. Good leadership on the mask mandate...bad leadership for cutting funding to the police (who everyone thinks need better training, need to hire better and need more resources...all of which require funding) before having any idea where they were going to reallocate it and how much would be needed for those causes because it was the trendy thing to do. I would be willing to bet that the city council will have difficulty enforcing this after pointlessly torching the bridge with law enforcement.

Also, can we really call it a cut? The police were asking for just over a 3% increase in their budget for next year, and they only received an increase of .15% or so. More money next year is a cut?

Personally all for it if they redirect it to mental health services as discussed. That is much needed in the community.

But back to the facemasks, good on them for trying to slow the spread.

[PhiAlpha]

Not all cops think like adults, and you're right, this guy should not be a cop.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ohio-...b67a80bc033b8e

"But the sheriff, who supports President Donald Trump, insisted, “I’m not going to be the mask police. Period.”"

Um, yes, yes, you are literally the mask police and you should be disciplined for not enforcing the mask mandate.

Having said that, I agree w/PhiAlpha, they shouldn't've cut the funding. Figure out how to fix the broken parts, then do *that*. There are tons of resources available on the net for anybody to see on how to restructure/reallocate things in the force for a better result, not hard to find at all, and if they can implement a defunding initiative, they can figure out how to do the *right* thing.

We agree on something!!! lol

[TheTravellers]

We agree on something!!! lol

I think there were one or two other things, but yeah, blue moon....

[PhiAlpha]

Also, can we really call it a cut? The police were asking for just over a 3% increase in their budget for next year, and they only received an increase of .15% or so. More money next year is a cut?

Personally all for it if they redirect it to mental health services as discussed. That is much needed in the community.

But back to the facemasks, good on them for trying to slow the spread.

This was my main issue...they did it without/before even deciding where they would divert the funding. It just screamed virtue signaling and something that was done for no reason other than the sake of doing it. I still don't think they should've cut funding to a department that is already strapped for resources, especially when additional training, more/better hiring, and additional resources are what would actually help solve some of the issues that they want to "fix" but at least have a better plan in place so it at least looks like it's being done for a purpose other than publicity. I really would've preferred that they find another funding source and put that into mental health than cut it out of the police dept. Hell, find a way to get some (or more) psych professionals into the police dept to accompany the police on calls where a mental health issue may be a suspected cause.

[PhiAlpha]

I think there were one or two other things, but yeah, blue moon....

Yes, there definitely have been others haha. But still

[TheTravellers]

...Hell, find a way to get some (or more) psych professionals into the police to accompany the police dept on calls where a mental health issue may be a suspected cause.

Absolutely this, we (USA) need to find a way to start swinging the pendulum back the other way WRT mental health funding, it's gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far to the bad side (and has been happening for waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many decades).

[dankrutka]

This was done for no reason other than for show...not to save money or divert to anything else hence the fact that no other purpose has been chosen...It was done just for the hell of it because it was the cool thing to do...all the hip liberal cities were doing it so they thought they should do it too. It was virtue signaling as opposed to attempting to save money, that’s the difference. Cutting funding to education isn’t something I agree with either but this isn’t remotely the same thing.

Teachers probably don’t teach as well when they aren’t paid as much and when they have fewer resources.

I mean, there are very clear plans from those advocating for defunding police about where the diverted money should go. Many cities are implementing those types of plans, but it also doesn't happen overnight.

Having said that, I didn't follow closely enough... did they not suggest the diverted money would go to, for example, mental health councilors? I've seen very clear plans on how to divert funds so it's disappointing if they didn't have a plan.

Note: Please know the difference between defunding some police funds to provide that money to other services like mental health councilors and social workers and abolishing police. They're not the same thing.

[Jersey Boss]

630k to Community Outreach & development. The city will review community needs before allocation.
235k for an internal auditor to monitor O.T.
The cut reps a 3.6 % of a 23M cop budget.
My guess is the tax loss is greater than 3.6%.
No Norman Music Fest, Midevil Fair, and Jazz in June.

Norman City Council votes to cut police funding
https://www.google.com/amp/s/oklahom...ce-funding/amp

[jedicurt]

Figure out how to fix the broken parts, then do *that*. There are tons of resources available on the net for anybody to see on how to restructure/reallocate things in the force for a better result, not hard to find at all, and if they can implement a defunding initiative, they can figure out how to do the *right* thing.

the problem is that in some cases the broken part is the Union, and the only way to fix that broken part is to completely disband the current police force. Go look at Camden NJ before the got rid of the unionized police force, it cost them $182,168 per office, but Officers were only paid an average of around 62,000. after getting rid of the union, the reason they were able to bring most of the police officers back to their newly created department was because the cost per officer dropped to 99,605 and the average officer pay went from 62,000 to just above 80,000 (the rest is training, insurance, etc.) Police Unions have created a system where police are more expensive than they need to be, because of the bureaucracy that is the Union, also the Unions have in some places created a culture where it is impossible to get rid of a bad officer, and good officers are discouraged from reporting bad officers.

[TheTravellers]

the problem is that in some cases the broken part is the Union, and the only way to fix that broken part is to completely disband the current police force. Go look at Camden NJ before the got rid of the unionized police force, it cost them $182,168 per office, but Officers were only paid an average of around 62,000. after getting rid of the union, the reason they were able to bring most of the police officers back to their newly created department was because the cost per officer dropped to 99,605 and the average officer pay went from 62,000 to just above 80,000 (the rest is training, insurance, etc.) Police Unions have created a system where police are more expensive than they need to be, because of the bureaucracy that is the Union, also the Unions have in some places created a culture where it is impossible to get rid of a bad officer, and good officers are discouraged from reporting bad officers.

Great points, I hadn't even considered the unions, thx for the enlightenment.

[BoulderSooner]

the problem is that in some cases the broken part is the Union, and the only way to fix that broken part is to completely disband the current police force. Go look at Camden NJ before the got rid of the unionized police force, it cost them $182,168 per office, but Officers were only paid an average of around 62,000. after getting rid of the union, the reason they were able to bring most of the police officers back to their newly created department was because the cost per officer dropped to 99,605 and the average officer pay went from 62,000 to just above 80,000 (the rest is training, insurance, etc.) Police Unions have created a system where police are more expensive than they need to be, because of the bureaucracy that is the Union, also the Unions have in some places created a culture where it is impossible to get rid of a bad officer, and good officers are discouraged from reporting bad officers.

this is spot on

[Jersey Boss]

the problem is that in some cases the broken part is the Union, and the only way to fix that broken part is to completely disband the current police force. Go look at Camden NJ before the got rid of the unionized police force, it cost them $182,168 per office, but Officers were only paid an average of around 62,000. after getting rid of the union, the reason they were able to bring most of the police officers back to their newly created department was because the cost per officer dropped to 99,605 and the average officer pay went from 62,000 to just above 80,000 (the rest is training, insurance, etc.) Police Unions have created a system where police are more expensive than they need to be, because of the bureaucracy that is the Union, also the Unions have in some places created a culture where it is impossible to get rid of a bad officer, and good officers are discouraged from reporting bad officers.

Another area that needs to be addressed is the DA .
I can cite several cases of selective enforcement/non enforcement of cases directly involving cops, city council.

[jerrywall]

There's a whole lot that could be said about the problems with the concept of public sector unions, but it's far afield from the thread topic.

On the facemasks side, the big surprise for me is the length of time. I would have expected it to be put into place for 30 days chunks or such. 5 months is a pretty significant commitment. I wonder if they'll second guess that decision at some point.

[Jersey Boss]

I'm sure the CC has the authority and power to amend any ordinance .
Also I would like to add it serves more as a notice of the seriousness Norman looks at this then a very limited 2 week time span that the OKC mayor implemented.

[TheTravellers]

There's a whole lot that could be said about the problems with the concept of public sector unions, but it's far afield from the thread topic.

On the facemasks side, the big surprise for me is the length of time. I would have expected it to be put into place for 30 days chunks or such. 5 months is a pretty significant commitment. I wonder if they'll second guess that decision at some point.

Probably will. I'd rather see longer times, then remove it if things get better, rather than Holt's 2-week one, which almost undoubtedly will get extended. Seems better to err on the side of caution with this.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I'm sure the CC has the authority and power to amend any ordinance .
Also I would like to add it serves more as a notice of the seriousness Norman looks at this then a very limited 2 week time span that the OKC mayor implemented.

I believe the Nov. 30th is more just a sunset of it. If things change they could revoke the ordinance in two meetings.

[jerrywall]

Probably will. I'd rather see longer times, then remove it if things get better, rather than Holt's 2-week one, which almost undoubtedly will get extended. Seems better to err on the side of caution with this.

I can see that, but I'm more just falling on the side of knowing people and what folks would be happy with. Doing it in blocks (say 30 days) shows flexibility, and you can keep extending (or just let it expire if it comes to a point that the ordinance is no longer needed). It's less likely that they would reverse it or end it early though, IMO. I know any sort of mask ordinance would be a hard sell in Edmond, but even if and when they pass one, I don't think they'll have the public support to put a policy in place for that length of time. Either way, it wasn't a value judgement, just more of surprise.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I can see that, but I'm more just falling on the side of knowing people and what folks would be happy with. Doing it in blocks (say 30 days) shows flexibility, and you can keep extending (or just let it expire if it comes to a point that the ordinance is no longer needed). It's less likely that they would reverse it or end it early though, IMO. I know any sort of mask ordinance would be a hard sell in Edmond, but even if and when they pass one, I don't think they'll have the public support to put a policy in place for that length of time. Either way, it wasn't a value judgement, just more of surprise.

I am sure the city council doesn't want to have to listen to the complaints every thirty days they renew it. The stuff people say at these meetings is mind boggling.

Went to Sams this morning. Saw maybe 2 people without a mask of about 20 or so there. No sign there yet to mandate mask.

[Bill Robertson]

Probably will. I'd rather see longer times, then remove it if things get better, rather than Holt's 2-week one, which almost undoubtedly will get extended. Seems better to err on the side of caution with this.

Along with the mandate Holt mentioned that his emergency authority is about to run out and the decisions will be transferred to the city council. I wonder if the short time period might have something to do with that. As soon as things are on the city council Holt can say he didn’t make people wear masks, etc.

[chuck5815]

There's a whole lot that could be said about the problems with the concept of public sector unions, but it's far afield from the thread topic.

On the facemasks side, the big surprise for me is the length of time. I would have expected it to be put into place for 30 days chunks or such. 5 months is a pretty significant commitment. I wonder if they'll second guess that decision at some point.

it covers all of the scheduled home games. this mandate is driven, in large part, by a desire to have OU football games take place this Fall.

[jerrywall]

it covers all of the scheduled home games. this mandate is driven, in large part, by a desire to have OU football games take place this Fall.

Good point.

[TheTravellers]

Along with the mandate Holt mentioned that his emergency authority is about to run out and the decisions will be transferred to the city council. I wonder if the short time period might have something to do with that. As soon as things are on the city council Holt can say he didn’t make people wear masks, etc.

Ah yes, forgot about the emergency authorizations expiring, and I think the state emergency authority is expiring soon too, good point. I've written Cooper asking him to implement a mandate.

[mugofbeer]

My COSTCO had a guy handing people sanitized carts and monitoring people for masks. He stopped a woman who had forgotten to put hers on but was carrying it. This was besides to guy checking your card.+

[ZacHolley]

So who would the moderator of this board be that decided to go in and delete my post from earlier today? Please private message me so you can explain what I posted that was against the rules

in the meantime someone please explain with science proof showing where a mask does a single bit of good against a virus....

Here is my proof that it doesnt work

*** LINK DELETED BY MODERATOR DUE TO DISINFORMATION ***

[Pete]

So who would the moderator of this board be that decided to go in and delete my post from earlier today? Please private message me so you can explain what I posted that was against the rules

in the meantime someone please explain with science proof showing where a mask does a single bit of good against a virus....

We've been over this many times and decided science has demonstrated over and over again that masks help.

We're not allowing the site to be used to spread disinformation.