Covid-19 in OKC (coronavirus)

[dankrutka]

The claim, if I read right, was that heat and cold will "drive people inside". The counter claim was "no evidence". If there is "no evidence", it seems far fetched to expect written, documented evidence.

If the claim is "it will make people go indoors, therefore, due to it spreading easier indoors, it will cause cases to jump" then I don't know how you expect evidence for that as we haven't had a summer with covid...

Also, it isn't the responsibility of the counter claimant in that instance to have to be the bearer of affirmation. The original claim should be supported or not made as an assumption.

I could be misunderstanding your post (and forgive me if so), but you seem to have reduced my comment to requiring "evidence," including future evidence. All I requested is that we provide each other "evidence OR explanation to support their stance" so we can learn from each other. The original post was a reasonable contribution to the discussion about something that could happen. The response offered neither evidence nor reason for shooting down the other post. That was my complaint. I'd love to learn why soonerguru thinks the post was unreasonable or incorrect, but they offered nothing. It's intellectually (and literally) lazy.

I'm not trying to follow the rules of a debate team competition. Just asking that posters offer some evidence OR reasoning for shooting down someone else's post.

This is what I was trying to say, which Pete said better. I didn’t mean to be harsh to C_M at all. Sorry, Dan, and more importantly, C_M.

I appreciate you saying that. You don't owe me an apology and there's no hard feelings. All I was trying to point out is that I wanted to understand you're reasoning. As I've said before, I love this forum when I learn so I try to fight for that spirit in it.

[RustytheBailiff]

$400 is too light. I think $1,000 at the minimum. Then If they don't pay, round them up with their family and put them in some sorta camp. That'll slow the spread for sure. They can make mask and Hand sanitizer while there.

Why should I go to a "camp" if my wife is caught without a mask and doesn't pay?



STAY SAFE WEAR MASKS

[AP]

Why should I go to a "camp" if my wife is caught without a mask and doesn't pay?



STAY SAFE WEAR MASKS

I'm pretty sure he is trolling.

[kukblue1]

https://occhd2.maps.arcgis.com/apps/...db9678f4d33cc9 Only 62 cases according to this with a 7 day and 3 day average going down.

[dankrutka]

assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof

I didn’t say it was an assumption by experts. It was, by the above definition, an assumption made by many people because they accepted it as something that was definitely going to happen. Without any real proof.

Okay, I understand you. I don't think the idea it could be season was without proof though. There was some evidence from other viruses, but the counter evidence was stronger. The idea the virus was going to die out with heat seemed more like wishful thinking than anything to me. People were gravitating to the possibilities and evidence they wanted to be true.

[FighttheGoodFight]

There’s a petition, signed by 1300 including 342 staff and faculty basically asking OU to have as much remote functions as possible. If there isn’t much of a on campus presence of regular school activities then I bet there won’t be football.

Hate to say it but I see a lot of colleges push for in class. As funding at a state level has dried up they have to have bodies in seats and on campus to survive. Not the mention the businesses around Norman and Stillwater (maybe to a lesser degree Edmond) need that revenue to keep going.

[OKCretro]

OKC can learn from the hiccups of the EU countries. Many appear to have successfully reopened

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...es-2020-05-21/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eturn-covid-19

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-s...es-11590928949

[GoGators]

I think the main worry is having 50 million kids spreading the virus throughout every community in the country.

[AP]

Remember when people on this board were lauding Sweden for their continuing life as normal approach?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/b...ronavirus.html

More than three months later, the coronavirus is blamed for 5,420 deaths in Sweden, according to the World Health Organization. That might not sound especially horrendous compared with the more than 129,000 Americans who have died. But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.

The elevated death toll resulting from Sweden’s approach has been clear for many weeks. What is only now emerging is how Sweden, despite letting its economy run unimpeded, has still suffered business-destroying, prosperity-diminishing damage, and at nearly the same magnitude of its neighbors.

[GoGators]

OKC can learn from the hiccups of the EU countries. Many appear to have successfully reopened

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...es-2020-05-21/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eturn-covid-19

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-s...es-11590928949

The countries mentioned in these articles overall did a much better job at slowing the spread of this virus. These measures will only work in areas where the virus isn't spreading unchecked.

[SEMIweather]

If the situation is still this dire at the start of the school year, and schools are pressured to reopen, I think you can pretty much count on significant pushback and/or wildcat strikes from the teachers.

[Pete]

Amid the drumbeat of rapidly rising numbers, some perspective is warranted.

Only 11 states have lower per capita infection rates than Oklahoma.

So, that's good news.


The bad news of course is that our growth rate is quite high and we are surrounded by heavily infected states, most notably Texas.

[Pete]

If the situation is still this dire at the start of the school year, and schools are pressured to reopen, I think you can pretty much count on significant pushback and/or wildcat strikes from the teachers.

This is going to be quite the showdown, especially since teachers are so highly unionized.

[soonerguru]

I could be misunderstanding your post (and forgive me if so), but you seem to have reduced my comment to requiring "evidence," including future evidence. All I requested is that we provide each other "evidence OR explanation to support their stance" so we can learn from each other. The original post was a reasonable contribution to the discussion about something that could happen. The response offered neither evidence nor reason for shooting down the other post. That was my complaint. I'd love to learn why soonerguru thinks the post was unreasonable or incorrect, but they offered nothing. It's intellectually (and literally) lazy.

I'm not trying to follow the rules of a debate team competition. Just asking that posters offer some evidence OR reasoning for shooting down someone else's post.



I appreciate you saying that. You don't owe me an apology and there's no hard feelings. All I was trying to point out is that I wanted to understand you're reasoning. As I've said before, I love this forum when I learn so I try to fight for that spirit in it.

No problem at all. I have no problem acknowledging that my post was a little terse, and I have no problem apologizing when I should, as I should have and did in this case. There are a handful of posters here who rarely offer evidence or vetted, up-to-date facts, continue to recycle outmoded information, and instead offer little more than sarcastic invective, sophistic "what aboutism" and little else. Whatever I do here I do not want to join that chorus.

To clarify, I overreacted because there seemed to be unwarranted hopefulness in C_M's post suggesting seasonally derived behavioral changes leading to a reduction in transmissions, when we have yet to see evidence that seasonality has any impact in reducing transmissions in our state. People are either going to do the simple things outlined to reduce transmissions or they won't, regardless of weather and regardless if they are indoors or outdoors, and that isn't likely to change until state and / or local government intervenes.

[soonerguru]

Hate to say it but I see a lot of colleges push for in class. As funding at a state level has dried up they have to have bodies in seats and on campus to survive. Not the mention the businesses around Norman and Stillwater (maybe to a lesser degree Edmond) need that revenue to keep going.

The businesses may want the revenue but ultimately they won't get it, regardless of government policy, until the virus is under control. Just like the businesses in OKC that we are seeing, there will be waves of them having to shut down to control outbreaks among their staffs. The smart play from day one has not changed: 1. Get the virus under control. 2. Get the virus under control, and 3. Get the virus under control. Once achieved, then institute common sense measures to keep it under control, such as mask and distancing policy.

Anyone clamoring for business openings before getting the virus under control ignored the first commandment. So, in the US, most states just said, "screw it, we're opening" for purely political reasons and without regard to any benchmarks being met. Then, they have weak-kneed leaders leaders who are refusing to do the common sense measures.

I see continued failure.

[RustytheBailiff]

I'm pretty sure he is trolling.

I would like to know if we have turned into a third world nation that imprisons the entire family for the faults of one member. Why you are disrespecting me is unclear.



STAY SAFE WEAR MASKS

[David]

If I remember right I heard Stitt say specifically last week that he won’t shut things down again. So just as a matter of pride or whatever the right word might be I don’t think he will unless it gets pretty cold in hell.

Stitt is going to let Oklahomans die for the sake of pride, or politics, or whatever is going through his head. At this rate he is going to easily take the mantle of worst recent Oklahoma governor from Mary Fallin.

[TheTravellers]

The businesses may want the revenue but ultimately they won't get it, regardless of government policy, until the virus is under control. Just like the businesses in OKC that we are seeing, there will be waves of them having to shut down to control outbreaks among their staffs. The smart play from day one has not changed: 1. Get the virus under control. 2. Get the virus under control, and 3. Get the virus under control. Once achieved, then institute common sense measures to keep it under control, such as mask and distancing policy.

Anyone clamoring for business openings before getting the virus under control ignored the first commandment. So, in the US, most states just said, "screw it, we're opening" for purely political reasons and without regard to any benchmarks being met. Then, they have weak-kneed leaders leaders who are refusing to do the common sense measures.

I see continued failure.

*And* dead people.

We've currently moved our Nonesuch reservation twice, we're now at the end of Sept., hopefully things will be better by then. I've moved my dental cleaning and yearly GP checkup twice now too. We won't eat inside a restaurant until things are more under control. So yeah, "open it and they will come" just isn't the way it is right now (for lots and lots of people).

[kukblue1]

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...nder-lockdown/ Melbourne going into Lockdown. Much like the many parts of the world. Minus the United States of course. Ours wasn't long enough. Now we are at the point of no return.

[Bill Robertson]

Okay, I understand you. I don't think the idea it could be season was without proof though. There was some evidence from other viruses, but the counter evidence was stronger. The idea the virus was going to die out with heat seemed more like wishful thinking than anything to me. People were gravitating to the possibilities and evidence they wanted to be true.

And I understand your point also. But while other viruses seem to die out during summer. This virus seems to want to prove that it’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen before.

[Pete]

And I understand your point also. But while other viruses seem to die out during summer. This virus seems to want to prove that it’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen before.

And that is very, very scary.

[jonny d]

And I understand your point also. But while other viruses seem to die out during summer. This virus seems to want to prove that it’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen before.

But it is either weaker, or we have gotten better at treating it. Either way is a plus. But yes, we need to get better at containing it.

[Pete]

But it is either weaker, or we have gotten better at treating it. Either way is a plus. But yes, we need to get better at containing it.

Or, we are just experiencing a somewhat expected delay in a surge of hospitalizations and deaths, as both are starting to trend up.

[Jersey Boss]

Okies are freaking hard headed but they aren’t that different than people elsewhere. I would propose a $400 fine to start, the same penalty you receive for simple marijuana possession. Most would follow it, and certainly a ton more that are now.

To your point, EVEN BRAUM’s employees were suddenly masked now that we have a law in OKC, so I disagree entirely with your premise. Even if we only got 80% compliance, that would be much more effective than what we are doing now.

Instead of a fine, I would impose a more egalitarian approach. Community service of 40 hours at a public hospital for starters.

[chuck5815]

Instead of a fine, I would impose a more egalitarian approach. Community service of 40 hours at a public hospital for starters.

Yeah, but then you are asking the person to potentially be exposed to the CV.

I would vote for a $3,000 fine, which is equivalent to the fines charged in South Korea.

It’s just unfortunate that we have a bunch of Sissy Republicans running this GD state. They have no interest in fighting this.