Covid-19 in OKC (coronavirus)

[catcherinthewry]

Say what? It was reported already by MSM that other states are doing this. Its not me making stuff up.

So its fair to ask how Oklahoma is reporting. Why is everyone so on edge? AllI want to know is what Oklahoma is using to define CV deaths.

Here:

CDC tells states to add 'probable' coronavirus cases to death toll

NEW YORK — The U.S. tally of coronavirus cases and deaths could soon jump because federal health officials will now count illnesses that are not confirmed by lab testing.

There was already a big rise in New York City, where officials this week started counting people who had never tested positive for the coronavirus. That caused the city’s death count to jump by more than 3,700 on Tuesday.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...irus-cases-de/

The article you cite merely enforces that hospitals are following the federal guidelines. Your original post said you believed that hospitals got more money if they said the cause of death was "from" COVID rather than "with" COVID implying that hospitals were fudging their numbers to get more money.

If you'd like to fact check that conspiracy theory here's an article for you:

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...D-19-payments/

[PhiAlpha]

Biggest jump in cases since the 9th. 21 deaths. Just wait over the next two weeks after all the dumb Okies who think this is over and who have been out and about start transmitting it.

I don’t think we will peak in Oklahoma until sometime in May or June, once people finally realize this is an actual threat. Their negligence will just drag this out for months.

And no, healthy people under 45 are not safe. My work colleague is 40 and healthy with no underlying conditions and she has had this over a month. She said it is worse than any flu or illness she has ever had. She can barely speak for 10 minutes without losing her breath and having to lay down. Sadly, I wonder if she will be like the divers in that German study, permanently damaged by this, with permanent lung damage.

Please listen to medical experts and scientists not Tea Party organizers and Fox News commentators .

Except that only 5 of those deaths actually happened yesterday with the rest spread out of the previous two weeks....but what does that matter when you find the perfect opportunity to use the wrong stat to tell all of us dumb okies who don’t agree with you how dumb we are, right?

[Bill Robertson]

In places where they are starting to reopen, consumers are generally staying away.

To me, that's the worst outcome. You still have a very high risk of things going wrong and possibly going back into lockdown again instead of just riding this out another month or two (the economic damage is already done IMO)... And then you don't have enough business to pay your people anyway.

I've been ringing the economic alarm bells since the very beginning but as I said, at this point the economy is already thrashed for a while so might as well do things right and then try and get past this.

And I say all this with the very strong reality of completely losing my business.

I was going to go into a long essay of how I see this dilemma. Instead I”ll just put in a nutshell. I think when it comes to reopening I’m afraid we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

[OKC Guy]

The article you cite merely enforces that hospitals are following the federal guidelines. Your original post said you believed that hospitals got more money if they said the cause of death was "from" COVID rather than "with" COVID implying that hospitals were fudging their numbers to get more money.

If you'd like to fact check that conspiracy theory here's an article for you:

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...D-19-payments/

The federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone's life.

Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite.

"There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem," she said during a Tuesday news briefing at the White House. "Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.

"The intent is ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that," she added

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bir...dless-of-cause

Back to my original question. How does Oklahoma determine cause of death for Covid-19?

[PhiAlpha]

Just curious as to what relevance the sexuality(in caps no less) of the Governor has to do with shelter in place?

Clearly he’s not sheltering in place in a closet. Though I don’t think that was the point of mentioning his sexuality.

[soonerguru]

Do you really think it's just people in Oklahoma are getting out and about? Our news is so NYC and DC centric as to make many think what you are seeingbon the national news is how it is everywhere.

Our very science-oriented GAY DEMOCRAT Governor in CO just announced he doesn't plan to extend the shelter-in-place for the state after April 30 because it's unnecessarily keeping people away from jobs all across rural CO where there is little to no virus being reported. He also acknowledges there are many other jobs where separation and distancing are probably adequate.

They are formulating plans to extend shelter-in-place by county or big city by big city and require masks be worn by everyone. They are also making it clear there may be flare-ups that require shut-down later on.

Even the somewhat liberal hosts on CNBC this morning were making many of the same comments that in less densely populated areas, there should be consideration given to gradual opening.

So next time you think those dumb Oklahoma conservatives are the only ones who are looking to end shelter-in-place in their location, think again. There is also the choice that if you don't think it should end, just stay home. I don't plan to get out much more than now for a few more weeks.

I did not use the word conservative. I have looked at cases across the country, and Oklahoma is not faring well in comparison. Look at Oregon and Oklahoma's numbers as of today and the difference is significant. I love Oklahoma but we do have a lot of dumb people here who are seemingly oblivious to the world around them, and they are not all ideologically conservative if they have any ideology at all.

Discussing issues like this on the Internet is very difficult, even in this usually civil forum. It instantly becomes a black and white discussion with people jumping onto their ideological lane.

For God's sakes, read some of the tripe over the last few pages, the denial, etc. I find it harrowing. I read the mayor's daily FB posts and I see the most ridiculous, fact-free diatribes from people trolling him, every day. I suspect they are a very vocal minority if polling is to be believed.

I do not want to shelter in place for the rest of the year! I would rather not do it another month! But it is not at all clear that Oklahoma's cases are declining. We are not even meeting Trump's metrics for "reopening."

And let us not forget that in this "closing," we have people flocking to massive retail stores and Mathis Brothers. People act as if they have been locked away in a Soviet gulag in some sort of police state. Really? It seems only small restaurants and retailers and nail salons and small businesses were closed by Stitt. Virtually every other business in the state was deemed essential. Some closing.

Can we agree that this is a serious global health crisis? Can we agree that the answer to navigating this will require some trial and error, but strong purpose to prevent a catastrophe?

At the moment, some very vocal people act like we should be popping champagne corks and hitting the bars because it's all over. Nothing close to that is true. And a handful of rowdy nutcases circling City Hall waving "I Want a Haircut" signs doesn't change that.

Allow me to blow your mind: I think Oklahoma should listen to Trump's guidelines and follow them. If we do, we will not be "reopening" on April 30, more like May 15 in the best case scenario, and that is only if all of these "COVID MY ASS" people will find the discipline to stop infecting each other for a few more weeks.

[AP]

Can we agree that this is a serious global health crisis?

I think this is the big issue. There are a bunch of people, even people on this board, who do not believe it is a big deal. Some are even insinuating that the deaths are being overreported for money.

[PhiAlpha]

I did not use the word conservative. I have looked at cases across the country, and Oklahoma is not faring well in comparison. Look at Oregon and Oklahoma's numbers as of today and the difference is significant. I love Oklahoma but we do have a lot of dumb people here who are seemingly oblivious to the world around them, and they are not all ideologically conservative if they have any ideology at all.

Discussing issues like this on the Internet is very difficult, even in this usually civil forum. It instantly becomes a black and white discussion with people jumping onto their ideological lane.

For God's sakes, read some of the tripe over the last few pages, the denial, etc. I find it harrowing. I read the mayor's daily FB posts and I see the most ridiculous, fact-free diatribes from people trolling him, every day. I suspect they are a very vocal minority if polling is to be believed.

I do not want to shelter in place for the rest of the year! I would rather not do it another month! But it is not at all clear that Oklahoma's cases are declining. We are not even meeting Trump's metrics for "reopening."

And let us not forget that in this "closing," we have people flocking to massive retail stores and Mathis Brothers. People act as if they have been locked away in a Soviet gulag in some sort of police state. Really? It seems only small restaurants and retailers and nail salons and small businesses were closed by Stitt. Virtually every other business in the state was deemed essential. Some closing.

Can we agree that this is a serious global health crisis? Can we agree that the answer to navigating this will require some trial and error, but strong purpose to prevent a catastrophe?

At the moment, some very vocal people act like we should be popping champagne corks and hitting the bars because it's all over. Nothing close to that is true. And a handful of rowdy nutcases circling City Hall waving "I Want a Haircut" signs doesn't change that.

Allow me to blow your mind: I think Oklahoma should listen to Trump's guidelines and follow them. If we do, we will not be "reopening" on April 30, more like May 15 in the best case scenario, and that is only if all of these "COVID MY ASS" people will find the discipline to stop infecting each other for a few more weeks.

You keep saying things like this but it is often you who makes some of the most inflammatory and political comments. You might want to take some of your own medicine on that one. People who disagree with you would be much more receptive to your opinions if you toned it down.

[Pete]

"There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem," she said during a Tuesday news briefing at the White House. "Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.

"The intent is ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that," she added

Back to my original question. How does Oklahoma determine cause of death for Covid-19?

You are clearly trying to find a way to claim the death numbers are inflated... Why? To make the point the crisis is also inflated? Why else would you care about such technicalities? IMO, this is nothing but very thinly-veiled politics.

In the example above, it clearly states Covid-19 had caused someone to go to the ICU and they ended up dying. You are splitting hairs to try and claim that this somehow should not count as a virus-related death.

Most people who had AIDS died of pneumonia or other causes. This is the way diseases work.

[OkiePoke]

A lot of folks are conveniently forgetting that it's about to get hot AF in Oklahoma.

We'll be out mowing the lawn and enjoying the Australia Effect soon enough: https://www.worldometers.info/corona...try/australia/.

What is the Australia Effect? It's getting colder there...??

[OKC Guy]

You are clearly trying to find a way to claim the death numbers are inflated... Why? To make the point the crisis is also inflated? Why else would you care about such technicalities? IMO, this is nothing but very thinly-veiled politics.

In the example above, it clearly states Covid-19 had caused someone to go to the ICU and they ended up dying. You are splitting hairs to try and claim that this somehow should not count as a virus-related death.

Most people who had AIDS died of pneumonia or other causes. This is the way diseases work.

It seems to me we use/used the numbers to shut down businesses. If numbers are being used as gospel to keep business shut down its fair to ask how we determine.

For example our numbers look good/declining and we have these 1 or 2 day big spikes. Is this going back and reclassifying deaths labeled as something else due to ability by rules to do so. If some of the deaths on the spike days are questionable CV related then it would mean our trend is better than shown. We trend down for 5 days and then bam a big spike. If part of that spike is not caused by CV then to me that would be great news. And perhaps then it would give better hope to open up businesses faster.

The original intent of closing things down was to prevent a big spike in hospital beds not to prevent it. There is no cure or vaccine so we can only use the data trends to determine when to start reopening. To that point if the spikes are truly 100% caused by CV then we may be slower in opening. If some were other causes but labeled as CV for insurance or CDC allowable reasons then it matters.

What I’m after is getting reopened and the one factor driving decisions is this data. Its not political I want to see us able to reopen as fast as possible yet as safely as possible. How they report factors in.

These are the type honest discussions taylor made for OKC Talk. If My post is in any way offensive or political please delete it no harm no foul

[chuck5815]

What is the Australia Effect? It's getting colder there...??

Australia’s case rate and the Science (https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/do-wea...us-sars-cov-2/) speak for themselves.

[AP]

Did you even read this?

The weather effect is minimal, and all estimates are subject to significant biases reinforcing the need for robust public health measures.

[Teo9969]

Did you even read this?

It also says this:

Results suggest that temperature does positively correlate with infection rates spread, whereas it negatively correlates with humidity. Temperature and humidity are likely to contribute a maximum of 18% of the variation in transmission.

That being said, it's dated March 23, 2020 so it may as well be The Iliad at this point.

[dankrutka]

It seems to me we use/used the numbers to shut down businesses. If numbers are being used as gospel to keep business shut down its fair to ask how we determine.

No, you use the numbers for politics. We use the numbers to understand who has died. Your inability to take off your partisan glasses even in the face of mortality numbers is a really bad look.

If people who want to open the economy so bad would just focus on how to do so safely (e.g., testing, tracing, PPE, business protocols) then we'd be more on our way to doing so. We all want businesses open. All of us. I'm terrified about this could lead to famine in third world countries. But, if we get this wrong, then it won't work. Either people will stay home because they will feel unsafe or we'll just end up back in shelter-in-place because of an explosion of cases.

[chuck5815]

Did you even read this?

Apparently we have different definitions of "minimal." The case rates speak for themselves:

• Europe

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	Total Tests	Tests/ 1M pop
San Marino	488	+12	40		62	386	4	14,382	1,179	1,872	55,171
Vatican City	9				2	7		11,236
Andorra	717		37		282	398	17	9,280	479	1,673	21,653
Luxembourg	3,618		78		670	2,870	32	5,780	125	34,962	55,852
Iceland	1,785	+7	10		1,462	313	5	5,231	29	44,468	130,312
Spain	208,389	+4,211	21,717	+435	85,915	100,757	7,705	4,457	464	930,230	19,896
Gibraltar	132				120	12	1	3,918		1,912	56,751
Faeroe Islands	185				178	7		3,786		6,270	128,318
Belgium	41,889	+933	6,262	+264	9,433	26,194	1,020	3,614	540	171,400	14,789
Isle of Man	307		9		209	89	15	3,610	106	2,509	29,506
Switzerland	28,268	+205	1,478		19,400	7,390	386	3,266	171	227,554	26,293
Ireland	16,040		730		9,233	6,077	315	3,248	148	111,584	22,598
Italy	183,957		24,648		51,600	107,709	2,471	3,043	408	1,450,150	23,985
Channel Islands	496		24		256	216		2,853	138	3,320	19,095
France	158,050		20,796		39,181	98,073	5,433	2,421	319	463,662	7,103

• South America

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	Total Tests	Tests/ 1M pop
Falkland Islands	11				3	8		3,161		319	91,667
Ecuador	10,398		520		1,207	8,671	137	589	29	33,389	1,892
Chile	10,832		147		4,969	5,716	392	567	8	122,357	6,401
Peru	17,837		484		6,982	10,371	380	541	15	155,724	4,723
French Guiana	97		1		83	13	1	325	3
Brazil	43,592	+513	2,769	+28	24,325	16,498	8,318	205	13	291,922	1,373
Uruguay	543		12		324	207	10	156	3	13,923	4,008

• Oceania

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Deaths/ 1M pop	Total Tests	Tests/ 1M pop
New Zealand	1,451	+6	14	+1	1,036	401	2	301	3	94,797	19,658
Australia	6,649	+4	74	+3	4,920	1,655	47	261	3	452,441	17,743
French Polynesia	57				35	22	1	203		1,655	5,892

[Pete]

It seems to me we use/used the numbers to shut down businesses. If numbers are being used as gospel to keep business shut down its fair to ask how we determine.

Of course it's fair to ask and discuss as we are doing.

But when someone goes into a conversation with an obvious agenda, it's never about getting to actual facts, it's about twisting facts to fit a narrative in service of an end goal.

[OKC Guy]

Of course it's fair to ask and discuss as we are doing.

But when someone goes into a conversation with an obvious agenda, it's never about getting to actual facts, it's about twisting facts to fit a narrative in service of an end goal.

I still have not seen how we determine which was my original question. I would need that data to support or deny the other parts. I explained why I asked for the data to the best of my ability. But without knowing determination procedures for OK its a dead end.

[Pete]

I still have not seen how we determine which was my original question. I would need that data to support or deny the other parts. I explained why I asked for the data to the best of my ability. But without knowing determination procedures for OK its a dead end.

The determination is made when the attending physician makes that call that Covid-19 was at least a contributing factor to the death.

It's not that hard to understand.

[Pete]

Numbers just updated for Wednesday:

[jn1780]

This seems to be the most level headed expert on the matter. Reality is we can will only be able to test 1 percent of the population by fall. There is currently no long term plan for when lockdowns are lifted. The population was sold the idea that 1 month of lockdowns would exterminate the virus.

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020...disease-doctor

Here is the latest podcast from him.
https://link.chtbl.com/AsZSygYs

[OKC Talker]

Apparently we have different definitions of "minimal." The case rates speak for themselves:

Just remember that correlation does not imply causation. That's one of the problems with the modeling that the state of Oklahoma is using where they're just looking at pure numbers and not the reasons behind them. What has the actual weather been like during the period these numbers are coming from? When was the first case and where are they on the "curve"? What lockdown procedures have they used? What's the population density in these countries? Etc. Those numbers mean nothing without understanding what's behind them.

[jn1780]

If people who want to open the economy so bad would just focus on how to do so safely (e.g., testing, tracing, PPE, business protocols) then we'd be more on our way to doing so. We all want businesses open. All of us. I'm terrified about this could lead to famine in third world countries. But, if we get this wrong, then it won't work. Either people will stay home because they will feel unsafe or we'll just end up back in shelter-in-place because of an explosion of cases.

Famine in world countries seems like a given at this point. The supply chain disruptions are a real thing. Wont be long before significant inflation kicks in too.

[HangryHippo]

The population was sold the idea that 1 month of lockdowns would exterminate the virus.

I don't know who/what you were following. It was to slow the spread.

[jn1780]

I don't know who/what you were following. It was to slow the spread.

Seems like the general public was/is(people are catching on now) thinking this was going to be like China/South Korea. There wasn't really an effort to correct them. I think a lot of exports think they can model South Korea also. South Korea did a lot of testing in a concentrated area. The crazy church group outbreak helped alert them to the problem and they acted quickly.