University North Park

[soonerliberal]

It's...a...SuperTarget, a big box with nice brick, not the Sidney Opera House.

My point is that people on this very forum complain excessively about there being too much concrete and stucco and not enough trees and brick in suburban developments and then complain about something else when we get a nice development that has the very same aspects they were complaining about not having!

http://soonerinvestment.com/pdf_flye...chure-0607.pdf
Look at the bottom of page 2. The elevation of the lifestyle center part looks pretty nice to me.

[traxx]

Do you know something, or are you just indulging in your half empty glass of milk while you cry about the other half that is spilt?

I told ya. You guys can stop using me as a whipping boy. I've seen the light. The brickwork and landscaping they're going to put up in front of Office Depot is going to make the Sydney Opera house look like a Port-A-Potty. My glass is all the way full. It's even overflowing. My cup runneth over - TJ Maxx, Office Depot and Circuit City all in one place - I can hardly contain myself!

Death to all whiners!!! Especially those who complain about Lower Bricktown. Who cares if it looks just like the stores at Memorial and Penn. Those stores are a great template that should be used for any development, anywhere.

Count me as on board with the rest of you guys. I don't wanna be the lone dissenter. It's lonely out here. **sniff, sniff, cry** As the saying goes "A million monkeys can't be wrong."

[CuatrodeMayo]

Trees and brick do not good architecture make. That SuperTarget is no different from any other.

[Superhyper]

Agreed, though I do think it is nice looking. To be honest I'm surprised the new target has done as well as it has. 24th and Robinson seemed like a kinda out-of-the-way place to me, but it seems to have been a hit! Even though it is further from me than the old one was...

[ouguy23]

I think it is nice looking as well and I think that the whole development looking like that is even better. Once the whole project is put together, then it will look awesome. People seem to be too jaded on this forum sometimes and you should give yourself a big hug every once in awhile.

[Jeopardude]

I told ya. You guys can stop using me as a whipping boy. I've seen the light. The brickwork and landscaping they're going to put up in front of Office Depot is going to make the Sydney Opera house look like a Port-A-Potty. My glass is all the way full. It's even overflowing. My cup runneth over - TJ Maxx, Office Depot and Circuit City all in one place - I can hardly contain myself!

Death to all whiners!!! Especially those who complain about Lower Bricktown. Who cares if it looks just like the stores at Memorial and Penn. Those stores are a great template that should be used for any development, anywhere.

Count me as on board with the rest of you guys. I don't wanna be the lone dissenter. It's lonely out here. **sniff, sniff, cry** As the saying goes "A million monkeys can't be wrong."

I too have learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. I too love subsidized corporate big boxes! I love chain stores at the expense of locally owned businesses. Ain't life grand?

[ouguy23]

Man i really love how businesses continue to come to norman and create jobs for the people here. I too love that people are investing in our community and making things happen as opposed to other people. Ain't life grand!

[traxx]

Man i really love how businesses continue to come to norman and create jobs for the people here. I too love that people are investing in our community and making things happen as opposed to other people. Ain't life grand!

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

[adaniel]

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

So its better to just let Norman's sales tax base to go to OKC and Moore?

I'm like a lot of others that I don't understand the blantant negativity towards this project when less than 25 percent of it has even been built or been anounnced.

The actual lifestyle center that's been so trumped up hasn't even had the utilites installed for it and people are already chalking this up as a "disappontment." Really? I think people need to seriously wait a few years because I think this is going to be a great project when completely done, which probably won't be for at least a decade. And yes, is still a suburban style shopping center, and no, its not something you will see in the middle of Mannhattan or San fran. But it does have quality design implemented into it that helps it look a lot better than some of the other run-of-the mill big box corridors. Take it for what its worth; I seriously doubt most people will not shop there because they don't like the brick motiff or the landscaping or they feel its too "suburban." And I think the "smart growth" you allude to would have meant a whole bunch of historic buildings in downtown or campus corner would have been bulldozed to make room .

I for one am glad that Norman finally recoginzes that its grown large enough to support just Sooner Mall and Holiday Inn.

[oudirtypop]

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

Traxx,

Can you tell me where the original ideas are at? I haven't see anything small and new in year. Oh, wait, lets forget how much of a sucess Othello's on ed noble was!

If you want to live in a small town with small town ideas, go to noble or newcastle. Norman is a city of over 100k people. In order for a city to continue to grow, you have to grow smart. i will agree with that. But, the smart factors of what they are doing here are the 4x normal landscaping and brick budgets, the lifestyle center, when started and completed will be like nothing in Oklahoma. People complain about seeing parking lots, but how can you build 2 million square feet of shopping without somewhere for those people to park.

You might also forget that as norman has grown in the last 20 years, with growth you have to have more schools, more fireman, policeman, more city crews, trash trucks, etc. In 10 years, this highly concentrated area of shopping will be producing so much sales tax revenue, that it will help the city continue to grow. Also, the school system will recieve so much money from the property taxes, that we wont be firing teachers or barely passing bonds to build new schools.

That sounds like a smart decision to me. And for those of us that are excited about this project, why dont the people that dont have anything positive to say, go shop elsewhere. Its going to be quite funny, why you drive to circuit city to buy a tv and spend that money and walk out with a weight on your shoulders because you were such a hypocrite, now you are one of those people, one of the people that spent money at the new "big box" wanna be sydney opera house!

[oudirtypop]

There's growth and then there's smart growth.

Larger population numbers are generally good for a large city especially if the numbers increase and the city is growing. But, you wouldn't want to bring in all the gang members, rapists, sex predators, drug dealers, people who refuse to get a job and work or anyone else who creates a strain on society, just to swell you population numbers. You want those with original ideas, who think outside the box, who work hard and are good members of the community. Not those that bleed the community and then leave it when its only an empty shell.

The same goes here.

I forgot Traxx, besides TJ Maxx being a bunch of rapists and drug dealers, whose to say that these people who work there aren't good members of the community? I bet that is what you think about Sams Club and Walmart, but you are quick to forget the thousands of dollars they send out to the local community each year.

I can see it now, all you anti-big box people would be in Heaven! Death to the man! Shop at your local hometown IGA store and get Fred to cut your meat fresh off the cow. Now thats service! Edna will even bag your grocieries in those cute brown paper sacks for you. If you want, you can even bring back the brown paper sacks for reuse. Thats environmental friendly you know. Stop on the bread isle while you are here for your local grown farm fresh bread and eggs.

Well, i gotta run, i need to stop at the big purple box to look at a dvd player then head over to the tan and blue box behind it to get some groceries, then head back to my house and stop on the way at the big orange box to get some home repair items, and then get gas at little box on each corner.

[traxx]

I forgot Traxx, besides TJ Maxx being a bunch of rapists and drug dealers, whose to say that these people who work there aren't good members of the community? I bet that is what you think about Sams Club and Walmart, but you are quick to forget the thousands of dollars they send out to the local community each year.

I can see it now, all you anti-big box people would be in Heaven! Death to the man! Shop at your local hometown IGA store and get Fred to cut your meat fresh off the cow. Now thats service! Edna will even bag your grocieries in those cute brown paper sacks for you. If you want, you can even bring back the brown paper sacks for reuse. Thats environmental friendly you know. Stop on the bread isle while you are here for your local grown farm fresh bread and eggs.

Well, i gotta run, i need to stop at the big purple box to look at a dvd player then head over to the tan and blue box behind it to get some groceries, then head back to my house and stop on the way at the big orange box to get some home repair items, and then get gas at little box on each corner.

It was an allegory. Apparently lost on you.

I wasn't saying that a city shouldn't grow but that when it grows it should do so with a plan. Don't build something just because there's undeveloped land there and you think there needs to be another Office Depot because there just aren't enough stores around to buy a printer.

If you're going to develop an area, think what you can do to make it different and original. What stores can you get to come in that are new to the area?

Growth for the sake of growth is stupid. But growth that actually brings added value is good.

But I don't know why you're getting mad at me, I already said that I'd seen the light and you guys had converted me. This is going to be the greatest shopping center since Ed Noble Pkwy.

Now leave me alone so I can go see Edna at the IGA and then go home to watch Matlock reruns.

[kielaaron]

The full-on development proposals for UTC & LP landed on my desk a couple of weeks ago, and I think that everyone should be satisfied with the tenant mix once all of the retailers are in place. Just like modern malls have wings associated with different types of stores, this large development is laid out just the same. There's a place for everyone at UTC & LP. I'm a little disappointed in the overall architectural elements for the development, as they look like an Oklahoma version of the lifestyle centers I've been visiting all over the country.

If I could compare what I saw in the packet of information to another successful project, I'd direct you guys to research Market Street in The Woodlands, TX, by a group called Trademark Property - this is probably the best lifestyle center I've been to thusfar.

This, of course, will be no South Coast Plaza or Northpark Center but should work well for Norman nonetheless. I just wish Sooner Investments would slip a few more images and tenant listings to the public.

[Nixon7]

I saw signs for TJ MAx, Kohls, and Petco today. Can we not get the Banana Republic type stores? I guess we will have to wait, (and hope) that they come to the Oklahoma Factory Shoppes in a few years.

[brianinok]

I don't know what is so hard for people to understand. They are building the outlying stores right now. Virtually every mall or lifestyle center in the country has outlying stores like the ones this one will have. The lifestyle center is in a later phase and will have mall-type stores.

[soonerliberal]

I don't know what is so hard for people to understand. They are building the outlying stores right now. Virtually every mall or lifestyle center in the country has outlying stores like the ones this one will have. The lifestyle center is in a later phase and will have mall-type stores.

THANK YOU.

I just don't understand how it is so difficult for some people to get through their heads that what we see now is less than a quarter of the first part of the master plan. The upscale lifestyle center is still grass and trees! Construction has NOT been started yet. Look at any upscale shopping district and you will see there are other shopping opportunities that accompany the upscale part. Have some patience people.

[CCOKC]

If this goes as fast as the first phase it really won't be that long. I drove by this morning at 7 and then again about 7 this evening and it had changed in 12 hours. It looks as though the first stores will be open pretty soon.

[traxx]

I don't know what is so hard for people to understand. They are building the outlying stores right now. Virtually every mall or lifestyle center in the country has outlying stores like the ones this one will have. The lifestyle center is in a later phase and will have mall-type stores.

THANK YOU.

I just don't understand how it is so difficult for some people to get through their heads that what we see now is less than a quarter of the first part of the master plan. The upscale lifestyle center is still grass and trees! Construction has NOT been started yet. Look at any upscale shopping district and you will see there are other shopping opportunities that accompany the upscale part. Have some patience people.

I don't understand why some people can't see that this is only the first part. Just look at any shopping center and you'll see that the upscale stores are accompanied by crappy stores you can find in any old strip mall.

[Easy180]

Kwerstion I have is...What's up with having another Kohl's 5 minutes south of the one in Moore?

[venture]

Same argument can be made for JC Penny...which moved further south into Moore. You have one in Sooner Mall. I think the general belief is that with the rate Norman is growing, it will sustain itself. With fuel prices as high as they are...people will become less likely to drive further up north. Personally, I drive to the city to go to work each day. If I had my choice, I would stay in Norman. Otherwise...I'm rarely in the City more than a couple times a month.

[Easy180]

Guess so venture...Just thought it weird they would put another that close is all

[flintysooner]

The Norman Transcript - University North Park ahead of schedule

Published: October 03, 2007 12:37 am

University North Park ahead of schedule
By Carol Cole-Frowe
Transcript Staff Writer

The $54.7 million University North Park Tax Increment Financing District is off and running, Norman city councilmembers heard at their Tuesday study session.

“It’s a strong start coming out of the gates,” said City Manager Steve Lewis, who managed several TIF districts in Lee’s Summit, Mo., where he previously was city administrator. “It’s ahead of projections.”

Assistant City Attorney Kathryn Walker told councilmembers, “with the rate of growth going on out there, we should see some impressive numbers.” Walker presented the quarterly update requested by the council.

“The entire west side is spoken for,” Walker said of the first phase of construction, designed to drive traffic. “They have potential tenants for every space over there. … It is going quicker than anticipated.”

One of those tenants opens today, with a Kohl’s ribbon cutting at 7 a.m.

“Now my wife and daughter can shop in Norman instead of Moore,” said Ward 2 councilmember Richard Stawicki after the meeting.

The council will consider Development Agreement No. 3 at its Oct. 9 regular meeting and is projecting issuance of $15 to $20 million in bond financing in December.

“We think the revenue streams being shown right now will service the debt,” said Jeff Bryant, city attorney.

The TIF funds for public improvements include $13.475 million for initial project costs and roadway improvements; $8.25 million for Legacy Park, landscaping and Legacy Trail; conference center and cultural facilities, $16.5 million; Lifestyle Center, $8.25 million; and economic development, $8.25 million.

Fifty percent of the ad valorem dollars over the original base amount go into the UNP TIF District No. 2 coffers, with 60 percent of sales tax increases going toward the TIF.

Ad valorem taxes will be measured against the base calendar year of 2006, when the undeveloped district was valued at $7.5 million, which included two parcels purchased by developers from the University of Oklahoma Foundation.

In calendar year 2007, the same property is projected to be worth more than $21 million. Projections for 2008 and 2009 for already-permitted buildings on the west side would grow the property values to $102 million, an estimate that doesn’t include contents.

Ad valorem tax from 2007 is projected at $165,112, with $82,556 going to the UNP TIF. The 2008-2009 projections for ad valorem tax are $1.16 million, with $580,585 going to the TIF.

Sales tax for fiscal year 2007 in the UNP TIF District totaled $1.6 million. Because Super Target moved from another Norman location, the store’s previous sales tax revenues were subtracted and the amount was adjusted down to $832,082. Of that, $499,249 or 60 percent would go to the TIF and $332,833 or 40 percent would go to the general fund.

Super Target opened a year ago, with Kohl’s opening today.

John Q. Hammons broke ground for a $50 million Embassy Suites Hotel/Conference Center on Feb. 28. Construction on the 10-story hotel is up to the seventh floor. Conference center construction began recently.

Retail outlets or restaurants announced so far for the first phase include Pei Wei Asian Bistro, AT&T, T-Mobile, Petco, Circuit City, Office Depot, Dress Barn, Maurice’s, Rack Room Shoes and TJ Maxx.

The second phase is planned to include the Lifestyle Center and would include an upscale shopping element that was the focus of the Citizens TIF Advisory Group that evaluated the project before council approved it.

Ward 1 councilmember Bob Thompson expressed concern that the city might just be “pushing dollars around.”

“That’s the elephant in the room,” Thompson said.

Ward 7 councilmember Doug Cubberley called some of that discussion “premature.”

“Let’s get a year of data in,” Cubberley said. “Are we making progress or are we treading water? … This has always been a stepped process. This is coming and it’s coming a lot faster than anyone envisioned. People have to have patience.”

Lewis said the city might consider hiring outside professionals to examine the extent of cannibalization and effects the district has on the city’s tax base.

Carol Cole-Frowe 366-3538 ccole@normantranscript.com

[Easy180]

“Now my wife and daughter can shop in Norman instead of Moore,” said Ward 2 councilmember Richard Stawicki after the meeting.

Wow...What a huge relief for Norman residents....Living in Moore I am so sick and tired of driving for upwards of 5 minutes to shop in Norman

Congratulations Mrs Stawicki!!

[zrfdude]

I think that comment was more about keeping tax dollars instead of giving them to another city, but I could be wrong; working in retail in Quail Springs, I know (as they are sure to let me know) the pain of Edmondites who have to drive ALL the way down to Quail to shop.

[jbrown84]

That is correct. It's all about tax dollars.