I-235 / I-44 Interchange

[Of Sound Mind]

Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traff...pper-merge.htm

Don't confuse this discussion with facts and studies...

[OkiePoke]

Zipper merge works at low speed and heavy congestion. Utilize all those lanes.

Merging prior to the lane closure at medium to normal speed is more efficient than zipper at the same speed.

[jn1780]

Maybe we can agree that the best option is to not end the lane in the first place? lol

At the end of the day there is only X amount of cars that can pass through a bottleneck when going x miles an hour. This leads to cars going bumper to bumper. Either way: early merging or zippering, the middle lane cars need to slow down or stop to allow an opening for someone to merge which of course is going to compound the congestion in the middle lane. This is why the right lane eventually ending in I-44 WB will help so much. Hopefully, that ramp will be done within a year.

[David]

"I remain undefeated" in the context of driving makes me think "I hope I never drive anywhere near that dangerous nutcase".

[mugofbeer]

Don't confuse this discussion with facts and studies...

I saw a news report a while back about zipper merging. Colorado has started trying to use it in construction areas while the report said other states have looked at it and don't see that it is an improvement. The few time's I've seen it used here, I can't tell any real difference other than it may help smooth the stops and starts of congestion, but the congestion seems to start earlier.

[Of Sound Mind]

For the "undefeated" driver...

[OKC Guy]

Lol!!! You guys are spending way too much time to prove you are right.

You are dangerous and unethical. You are going to argue over saving 20 seconds to 1 minute of wait time. I am still going to be undefeated in letting in discourteous drivers speeding up left lane only to try and can opener themselves into occupied spaces.

Keep on trying but I will stay undefeated in real life.

[loveOKC]

For the "undefeated" driver...

I’m surprised one of those F-150s or Chevy Trucks didn’t jump in front of you to stop you from “cutting” everybody.

[Of Sound Mind]

Lol!!! You guys are spending way too much time to prove you are right.

You are dangerous and unethical. You are going to argue over saving 20 seconds to 1 minute of wait time. I am still going to be undefeated in letting in discourteous drivers speeding up left lane only to try and can opener themselves into occupied spaces.

Keep on trying but I will stay undefeated in real life.

It was no trouble at all! I don't care whether you think I'm right or not... I'm enjoying watching the ignorance in the discussion. As long as that remains a valid lane (which it is until it truly ends), I will continue to use it and pass by the "undefeated" drivers (along with the much more dangerous driving-while-texting drivers who leave large gaps between the vehicles in front of them, adding to the waiting of the "undefeated" drivers.

[Of Sound Mind]

I’m surprised one of those F-150s or Chevy Trucks didn’t jump in front of you to stop you from “cutting” everybody.

It's happened a few times... but if they don't move at the speed of THAT lane, I will sometimes drive around them (much to their chagrin). Unlike what the "undefeated" driver(s) may believe, I'm actually a very alert driver who is always trying to anticipate such sudden movements/reactions by other drivers. If ODOT or OHP wanted us to merge sooner, they would indicate such with appropriate signage. Until then, I'll use any lane that is available until it's no longer a lane or available.

[jerrywall]

It was no trouble at all! I don't care whether you think I'm right or not... I'm enjoying watching the ignorance in the discussion. As long as that remains a valid lane (which it is until it truly ends), I will continue to use it and pass by the "undefeated" drivers (along with the much more dangerous driving-while-texting drivers who leave large gaps between the vehicles in front of them, adding to the waiting of the "undefeated" drivers.

Heh. That's the big thing. I will use the available lane until I get close to the end. And then i turn on my turn signal and try move over... There's always one or two of those "undefeated" folks making it more dangerous, and I just pass them and get in front of the car ahead of them. I'll move over earlier if folks let me in.

And no, someone isn't being unethical (what? Lol) or even dangerous using that third lane. In fact it's 100% legal! It only bugs folks because it's "unfair". At the end of the day, we'll all get to your destinations plus or minus a couple of minutes.

[loveOKC]

It's happened a few times... but if they don't move at the speed of THAT lane, I will sometimes drive around them (much to their chagrin). Unlike what the "undefeated" driver(s) may believe, I'm actually a very alert driver who is always trying to anticipate such sudden movements/reactions by other drivers. If ODOT or OHP wanted us to merge sooner, they would indicate such with appropriate signage. Until then, I'll use any lane that is available until it's no longer a lane or available.

Exactly this

[David]

Lol!!! You guys are spending way too much time to prove you are right.

You are dangerous and unethical. You are going to argue over saving 20 seconds to 1 minute of wait time. I am still going to be undefeated in letting in discourteous drivers speeding up left lane only to try and can opener themselves into occupied spaces.

Keep on trying but I will stay undefeated in real life.

You should take a defensive driving course.

[pkirk]

Not to completely dog pile the "undefeated driver", but you're actually one of the primary reason for traffic to back up at merge points because you don't let people in. Here's a fun video that actually explains what should be happening:



I've actually been there more than once to see the origination of the daily jam going from I-40 West to I-44 East. It always happens when a tightly bunched group of cars in the "thru" lane freeze out some cars who took the left lane all the way to the end. This causes cars behind those "undefeated drivers" to brake harder to let in the cars that are merging in. This in turn causes the cars behind those cars to brake which starts the chain reaction that eventually backs all the way back onto I-40 West past May. I've watched in my rearview in real time as the merge point was clear got jammed all the way back because someone thought they were "right" by merging early and the other person was "wrong" for waiting to the merge point.

Now, does this mean there's not jerks who are just speeding past as many cars as they can? Of course not, but they exist regardless of the traffic situation. But I contend it's equally as jerky to enforce your idea of fair and unfair especially at a merge point. You, more than them, are causing the bottleneck which, in turn, incentivizes more people to be jerks by speeding ahead and even more people to be jerks by "staying undefeated."

Ideally, the state should repeal the merge now law and accompanying signage. Replace it with signs that read:

Zipper Merge Ahead
Use Both Lanes Till Merge Point
Take Turns at Merge Point

Do away with the signage that shows one lane merging left or right into the other and replace them with one where both lanes merge together. Just my two cents.

[jn1780]

I will say the "Lane Ends " sign is too far back. It should be on the overhead sign a couple of hundred feet from the merge. This is normally where you see the "Merge Now" signs in construction zones and people will fill in the space up to the Merge Now signs. The left over open lane space is not really enough to gain speed.

[OKC Guy]

Wow, quite a feisty group here they are digging deep on the interwebs to argue a small point lol.

1. The backups happen for about 4 hours per day (2 each morning/afternoon).

2. In the other 20 hours the merging at end works exactly fine because no traffic is backed up.

3. The arguments do not hold water because the thru lanes are never fully backed up for miles. This means there is ample time to merge over beforehand.

4. Those who cannot wait in line an extra minute of their life put many others at risk by speeding (breaking the law) by traffic that is going between stopped to 20)

5. Those having to jump the line are selfish in trying to cut in line.

6. It works perfectly in the southbound merging area south of Hefner because traffic is flowing at speed.

7. I love being undefeated and the road ragers have to get in somewhere behind me - because I am legally entitled to my lane and if they hit me they are at blame for improper lane change.

8. Still undefeated and not selfish as I waited my turn in line

9. Those who are always speeding in the merge lane are the same ones who would outjump a kid trying to catch a homerun baseball and thump their chests at beating a kid to it.

10. When you cause a wreck by speeding and someone is killed or hurt, I hope you finally realize that 1 minute you tried to save wasn’t worth it

To recap, in normal traffic (non rush) it works fine. Its only the 2 hours from 4-6 that has some thinking they are better than others and warrant special treatment by butting in line. I will still be undefeated while you road rage and pay tickets. I just hope you don’t crash into someone who is hitting their brakes hard causing the car behind to move left and you coming at 60-70 hit them from behind moving 0-10. Yes, I have seen some close calls like where an accident was narrowly averted all because someone can’t wait 1 extra minute and speeds in the merge lane.

Signed: Undefeated and staying that way. (Note: I love how you focus on the word undefeated vice the actual safety hazards you are creating lol)

[David]

My focus is on the word undefeated because it shows a dangerous driving mentality. If you are focused while driving on who is 'winning' and who is 'losing' then you aren't focused on safety.

[GoGators]

This thread has made me very thankful for my 2.5 mile 7 min commute. No interstate, No traffic, No delays. Instead of worrying about zippers and being undefeated you can be sitting in your living room before 5:10 pm. Highly recommend.

[OKC Guy]

Back on topic, will the merge lane become a thru lane after construction? The way it looks to me it will. The current far right lane (after 36th going north) is the 50th exit and will also be flyover 235n to 44w. That leaves the 3 other current lanes (2 thru and 1 merge). I assume the merge lane becomes a thru lane and thus will have 3 full thru lanes.

[Of Sound Mind]

Wow, quite a feisty group here they are digging deep on the interwebs to argue a small point lol.

Says the person who has argued the most on this topic.

3. The arguments do not hold water because the thru lanes are never fully backed up for miles. This means there is ample time to merge over beforehand.

Up to and including the actual merge point.

4. Those who cannot wait in line an extra minute of their life put many others at risk by speeding (breaking the law) by traffic that is going between stopped to 20)

It's not speeding if you are within the speed limit and within the flow of traffic for THAT lane.

5. Those having to jump the line are selfish in trying to cut in line.

You means selfish like those "undefeated" drivers?

7. I love being undefeated and the road ragers have to get in somewhere behind me - because I am legally entitled to my lane and if they hit me they are at blame for improper lane change.

I don't road rage... the "undefeated" drivers get road rage when I simply move up a few more spots before merging when they don't want to allow a driver in that is LEGALLY merging according to the zipper merge practices.

8. Still undefeated and not selfish as I waited my turn in line

And I remain undefeated waiting to merge until the zipper merge point.

9. Those who are always speeding in the merge lane are the same ones who would outjump a kid trying to catch a homerun baseball and thump their chests at beating a kid to it.

Demonstrably untrue

10. When you cause a wreck by speeding and someone is killed or hurt, I hope you finally realize that 1 minute you tried to save wasn’t worth it

Again, zipper-merging and speeding are not synonymous.

To recap, in normal traffic (non rush) it works fine. Its only the 2 hours from 4-6 that has some thinking they are better than others and warrant special treatment by butting in line. I will still be undefeated while you road rage and pay tickets. I just hope you don’t crash into someone who is hitting their brakes hard causing the car behind to move left and you coming at 60-70 hit them from behind moving 0-10. Yes, I have seen some close calls like where an accident was narrowly averted all because someone can’t wait 1 extra minute and speeds in the merge lane.

My experience has been that on many days, especially at peak times, it's more like five or more minutes. And so I made the rational decision to LEGALLY utilize that third lane fully up to the merging point. That is no more selfish than refusing to allow a LEGALLY zipper-merging vehicle in front of you.

Signed: Undefeated and staying that way. (Note: I love how you focus on the word undefeated vice the actual safety hazards you are creating lol)

Signed: Undefeated zipper-merger and staying that way.

[OKC Guy]

My focus is on the word undefeated because it shows a dangerous driving mentality. If you are focused while driving on who is 'winning' and who is 'losing' then you aren't focused on safety.

Its actually less dangerous. I focus on the car ahead and behind. Those who let in the impatient mergers hit brakes to do so which if the car behind isn’t paying attention can hit them. This happens often. Me not allowing impatient mergers in is less dangerous because I am not jacking on my brakes and worrying about the driver behind hitting me.

Its not hard to focus ahead like me not sure why anyone would claim its more dangerous when its actually less.

[OKC Guy]

Says the person who has argued the most on this topic.


Up to and including the actual merge point.


It's not speeding if you are within the speed limit and within the flow of traffic for THAT lane.


You means selfish like those "undefeated" drivers?


I don't road rage... the "undefeated" drivers get road rage when I simply move up a few more spots before merging when they don't want to allow a driver in that is LEGALLY merging according to the zipper merge practices.


And I remain undefeated waiting to merge until the zipper merge point.


Demonstrably untrue


Again, zipper-merging and speeding are not synonymous.


My experience has been that on many days, especially at peak times, it's more like five or more minutes. And so I made the rational decision to LEGALLY utilize that third lane fully up to the merging point. That is no more selfish than refusing to allow a LEGALLY zipper-merging vehicle in front of you.


Signed: Undefeated zipper-merger and staying that way.

Lol

I am actually replying to about 8 or so impatient drivers. Speed kills. Its not 5 minutes either lol. Slow down and enjoy life

[Of Sound Mind]

Back on topic, will the merge lane become a thru lane after construction? The way it looks to me it will. The current far right lane (after 36th going north) is the 50th exit and will also be flyover 235n to 44w. That leaves the 3 other current lanes (2 thru and 1 merge). I assume the merge lane becomes a thru lane and thus will have 3 full thru lanes.

A close look at this rendering would suggest that there will be three full thru lanes.

[OKC Guy]

A close look at this rendering would suggest that there will be three full thru lanes.

Perfect, thanks. Can’t wait, they are making good progress. With the flyover pillars and some completed it looks so different than even 4 months ago.

[David]

Its actually less dangerous. I focus on the car ahead and behind. Those who let in the impatient mergers hit brakes to do so which if the car behind isn’t paying attention can hit them. This happens often. Me not allowing impatient mergers in is less dangerous because I am not jacking on my brakes and worrying about the driver behind hitting me.

Its not hard to focus ahead like me not sure why anyone would claim its more dangerous when its actually less.

I understand that you have convinced yourself that your driving patterns are safer than other people's patterns. However, given the way you are presenting it here it does not sound like you are correct in how you are implementing those beliefs. It's not really even this specific issue and the arguments you are making regarding it, but the overall impression you are giving. If while driving you have to be the winner and other people have to be the losers, some day you may kill either yourself in trying to win or other people in trying to make sure they lose.