2020 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[BG918]

Frontier fleet is 10% of the SW fleet so you can stop having bad dreams.

I do think SW is getting stuck between the MAX not flying and some 737 700 needing to be retired. They postpone some retirement but I dont know how much longer they can go.

The MAX has really screwed Southwest. I guess that's what happens when all your eggs are in one basket (the 737). As a Southwest FF (Companion Pass/A-List) I hate to see it.

[damonsmuz]

Great news for AA and KOKC. Just wondering, how many gates does AA have open in the 5am-7am window? They have flights to LAX,PHL,MIA,CLT and then a few to DFW.

[no1cub17]

I would have to think that the 737 MAX fiasco is going to catch up to Southwest at some point. Going on a year of being grounded now and still few signs of progress in terms of getting it back into the air. Sucks because Southwest is my favorite airline and I'm having nightmares thinking about Frontier overtaking them as the largest low-cost carrier in the U.S.

WN is literally the polar opposite of a LCC. They are usually far from the cheapest option, and their fares include everything but a seat assignment. The US3 are much more LCC than Southwest.

G4 and NK are much more similar to F9 compared to WN.

[HOT ROD]

Very likely has OKC-LGA before airline deregulation.

awesome news! Bos remains then the east coast is fully covered.

[no1cub17]

Very likely has OKC-LGA before airline deregulation.

awesome news! Bos remains then the east coast is fully covered.

DL just doesn't seem committed to OKC the way AA is. Aren't DTW and MSP down to once daily at times? I'd switch from AA to DL in a heartbeat if DL had a better network out of OKC.

[dcsooner]

DL just doesn't seem committed to OKC the way AA is. Aren't DTW and MSP down to once daily at times? I'd switch from AA to DL in a heartbeat if DL had a better network out of OKC.

I think it is unfair to just state Delta is not committed to OKC. Passenger counts drive routes and service frequencies. OKC is an average at best market for both outbound and inbound traffic. Raleigh Durham is contemplating moving expansion of its airport up 15 years or so due to significant year over year passenger counts due to exploding population and other factors. Fly more get more

[jonny d]

I think it is unfair to just state Delta is not committed to OKC. Passenger counts drive routes and service frequencies. OKC is an average at best market for both outbound and inbound traffic. Raleigh Durham is contemplating moving expansion of its airport up 15 years or so due to significant year over year passenger counts due to exploding population and other factors. Fly more get more

Eh, not always. Money matters, too. I think OKC needs to get more competitive on their incentives they offer airlines.

[no1cub17]

I think it is unfair to just state Delta is not committed to OKC. Passenger counts drive routes and service frequencies. OKC is an average at best market for both outbound and inbound traffic. Raleigh Durham is contemplating moving expansion of its airport up 15 years or so due to significant year over year passenger counts due to exploding population and other factors. Fly more get more

Clearly AA and WN (AA in particular) have grown significantly in OKC over the past 1-2 years, while DL hasn't. Whether that's because the passengers aren't there or because the service isn't there is debatable. But clearly AA has found success adding PHL, MIA, and presumably now LGA. DL has done nothing similar in OKC.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

I don't fully understand the love OKC has for WN. As a company, I'm sure they are a great employer. As a passenger, I get that sometimes they have a better fare price. But they never rebook on other (legacy) carriers if your flight is cancelled. I never need Chicago Midway, I need O'Hare. The whole queuing up next to the signposts feels odd, but if I pay for upgrade to avoid queue, eats into their lowest fare idea. Bags flying free is a non-issue for me with one carry on.
They have some of the nicest gate agents and stewards in the business, but they are never my first choice to fly. Maybe I am not their target audience. Just curious to me how many Oklahomans seem to really only want to fly them.

[Zorba]

Has there ever been a non-stop flight from OKC to LGA?

AA will have LAX, PHX, DFW, ORD, MIA, CLT, PHL, DCA and LGA. That's impressive. TUL, which has traditionally been an AA stronghold with the Mx base and 5k+ employees, only has LAX, DFW, ORD and CLT. They would be ecstatic to have to the recent AA adds that OKC has seen.

Not surprised to see low to no growth from Southwest with the MAX issues. BNA has been the only recent add for OKC (along with the axing of the DAL flight) while TUL finally gets a BWI flight.

When I worked for AA in TUL. I was pretty excited when they added OKC-LAX. I would've killed to have CLT and LAX while I was there. Having the full OKC line up in TUL would be amazing for non-reving. When I was at AA I flew the TUL-DFW 42 times in one year, then another 20ish TUL-ORD. They did have TUL-MIA for awhile on the weekends, but it never had great loads and as 737s started getting stationed outside of MIA they didn't need it to help induct aircraft anymore.

[Zorba]

I don't fully understand the love OKC has for WN. As a company, I'm sure they are a great employer. As a passenger, I get that sometimes they have a better fare price. But they never rebook on other (legacy) carriers if your flight is cancelled. I never need Chicago Midway, I need O'Hare. The whole queuing up next to the signposts feels odd, but if I pay for upgrade to avoid queue, eats into their lowest fare idea. Bags flying free is a non-issue for me with one carry on.
They have some of the nicest gate agents and stewards in the business, but they are never my first choice to fly. Maybe I am not their target audience. Just curious to me how many Oklahomans seem to really only want to fly them.

WN's target market isn't really the business traveler, although I still prefer them for that as well. I'll agree with you on their refusal to rebook on other airlines, and they are also quick to pull the cancel trigger because long delays really cascade with their network structure. But, I can fly with my family and not have to pay significant upcharges to get seats together. I don't have to pay to seat in a window seat. If they change my flight, I don't lose my seat assignments with my family (while on Delta, they changed my flights the night before going to Hawaii and couldn't understand why I was upset that my wife and I didn't have seats together with a lap baby, took 2 hours to get them to give us the last row of the plane).

Like you said, they have the nicest employees, and they have by far the most passenger friendly policies, except for rebooking on other airlines. Also, no change fees comes in real handy when traveling for work.

[catch22]

Here is the 6/8/20 departure schedule for AA:

0510 DFW 319
0530 MIA E75
0540 ORD CR7
0600 PHL E75
0603 LGA E75
0620 LAX E75
0631 CLT CR9
0655 DCA E75
0700 DFW 738
0835 DFW 319
0843 PHX CR7
1032 DFW 319
1055 PHL E75
1144 CLT CR9
1219 DFW 319
1220 ORD CR7
1425 DFW 738
1505 LAX 319
1550 PHX CR9
1600 ORD CR7
1653 DFW CR9
1820 DFW 738
1917 ORD CR7
2020 DFW 319


This adds up to 2,358 departing seats and 24 departures for a typical weekday.

[BG918]

Evidently TWA flew OKC-LGA in the 80’s. I’m too young to remember.

I do remember the Delta OKC-TUL flights in the 90’s. I distinctly remember driving to the airport with my mom in Tulsa and buying a one-way ticket to OKC where my grandma would pick me up. Yes we bought the ticket AT THE AIRPORT. It was about a 20 min flight on a 717 I believe.

[no1cub17]

WN's target market isn't really the business traveler, although I still prefer them for that as well. I'll agree with you on their refusal to rebook on other airlines, and they are also quick to pull the cancel trigger because long delays really cascade with their network structure. But, I can fly with my family and not have to pay significant upcharges to get seats together. I don't have to pay to seat in a window seat. If they change my flight, I don't lose my seat assignments with my family (while on Delta, they changed my flights the night before going to Hawaii and couldn't understand why I was upset that my wife and I didn't have seats together with a lap baby, took 2 hours to get them to give us the last row of the plane).

Like you said, they have the nicest employees, and they have by far the most passenger friendly policies, except for rebooking on other airlines. Also, no change fees comes in real handy when traveling for work.

Very well said. My wife's family are dedicated WN loyalists because of exactly that. They'd rather connect on WN than take AA's nonstop from LAX because of all of the above. The no change fee thing is extremely useful.

My wife and I have remained AA regulars though because we fly enough to maintain at least low tier status. Also helps that AA actually flies to my hometown (AZO) and WN doesn't. For non-status passengers WN is certainly a better experience though.

[no1cub17]

Here is the 6/8/20 departure schedule for AA:

0510 DFW 319
0530 MIA E75
0540 ORD CR7
0600 PHL E75
0603 LGA E75
0620 LAX E75
0631 CLT CR9
0655 DCA E75
0700 DFW 738
0835 DFW 319
0843 PHX CR7
1032 DFW 319
1055 PHL E75
1144 CLT CR9
1219 DFW 319
1220 ORD CR7
1425 DFW 738
1505 LAX 319
1550 PHX CR9
1600 ORD CR7
1653 DFW CR9
1820 DFW 738
1917 ORD CR7
2020 DFW 319


This adds up to 2,358 departing seats and 24 departures for a typical weekday.

Very cool - thanks for putting that together. Happy to see PHL back up to 2x daily for the summer.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

Wish that LGA would start in May, but beggars can't be choosers. The time is good at least.

[brianinok]

Here is the 6/8/20 departure schedule for AA:

0510 DFW 319
0530 MIA E75
0540 ORD CR7
0600 PHL E75
0603 LGA E75
0620 LAX E75
0631 CLT CR9
0655 DCA E75
0700 DFW 738
0835 DFW 319
0843 PHX CR7
1032 DFW 319
1055 PHL E75
1144 CLT CR9
1219 DFW 319
1220 ORD CR7
1425 DFW 738
1505 LAX 319
1550 PHX CR9
1600 ORD CR7
1653 DFW CR9
1820 DFW 738
1917 ORD CR7
2020 DFW 319


This adds up to 2,358 departing seats and 24 departures for a typical weekday.

All these flights have first class cabins too. No ERJ-145 or CRJ-200. And I would argue the E75 feels like a mainline it is so roomy. It looks like there are 9 mainline (8 to DFW; 1 to LAX), and a further 6 E75 flights (1 MIA; 1 LGA; 2 PHL; 1 LAX; 1 DCA).

Maybe with AA devoting effort into CLT now we will get better aircraft than the CRJ-900 soon. I'd also like to see better aircraft to ORD simply because it's such an important connecting hub. But, really, what a great schedule. 2020 is going to be a down year for me on travel but it will ramp back up next year and we will take advantage of this kind of schedule.

[gopokes88]

WN is great for

-easy redemption of rapid rewards
-companion pass
-0 change fees
-excellent customer service

Dropping all okc/Dallas flights pretty much nuked my ability to fly them. So American it is.

[BG918]

It is rumored that Southwest will build up a small hub operation in Kansas City once the new airport is finished. I wonder if OKC/TUL could see resumption of flights to MCI if the connecting flights are there. Could help somewhat mitigate the loss of DAL flights from OKC, and a significantly reduced DAL schedule from TUL. There is a decent amount of O&D between the cities, likely not enough for a 1x or 2x 737, but the connecting opportunities could make it work (like STL).

[Zorba]

WN is great for

-easy redemption of rapid rewards
-companion pass
-0 change fees
-excellent customer service

Dropping all okc/Dallas flights pretty much nuked my ability to fly them. So American it is.

Are you doing that much D&O between OKC and DAL?

[catch22]

Are you doing that much D&O between OKC and DAL?

I'm sure he'll speak for himself, but generally Southwest just gave up the entire OKC-Texas (minus Houston) market to AA. Loyalists can continue via HOU, however that involves some back tracking.

[Zorba]

I'm sure he'll speak for himself, but generally Southwest just gave up the entire OKC-Texas (minus Houston) market to AA. Loyalists can continue via HOU, however that involves some back tracking.

Yeah, I guess if you wanted to go to Western TX/Austin it might be an issue. Southern TX won't have much difference. Going outside of TX I think a lot of the new routes are better. I've also had a lot of weather issues with DAL, too, so I say good riddance. I also understand the realignment for them. With the gate limitations at Love and OKC-DAL probably having few D&Os, it makes sense to offload those connectors elsewhere in the system.

[HangryHippo]

Has anyone else been able to book the LGA flights? I can’t find them for sale anywhere yet.

[runOKC]

Has anyone else been able to book the LGA flights? I can’t find them for sale anywhere yet.

They were on google flights. Looked at random dates this fall and it looked like it was about half the cost of the United nonstop to EWR.

[gopokes88]

Are you doing that much D&O between OKC and DAL?

OKC-MAF was my primary route. SW used to even have a flight that continued onto MAF out of Dallas. 40 people from okc would be on it.

It’s now go to Houston then to MAF. It arrives an hour later and leaves an hour earlier than the comparable American flight.

I fly some OKC-LBB as well. Same story.

I fly lots of OKC-ABQ. Southwest is still good going out okc/den/abq but coming home I liked going through Dallas, if I get stuck in Dallas I’m only 3 hours from home.

Just by eyesight and flying 3X a month, southwest gates are way down. Americans are up.

I don’t know if it was more the Hawaii expansion, or if the max straining them, but I hope those flights come back at some point.

American is sub par in every way, except route network which is becoming a monster.