Full list of proposed MAPS 4 projects

[dankrutka]

Look, I think higher voter turn out is a good thing. However, low voter turnout can also be associated with trust and satisfaction in local government and MAPS in general. I suspect that the shiny new park and convention center don't hurt at all... it's good timing that there's a lot to show from MAPS 3. This election just seemed to have little controversy and general satisfaction with MAPS, and those things may be reasons for lower turnout. I just don't know if depression is needed...

[OKC Guy]

So sad. So very, very sad. OKC citizens should be forever embarrassed - and filled with a deep sense of shame, sorrow, and grief - that this outcome did not turn out the way OKC Guy has wanted from page 1 of this thread.

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

[Midtowner]

Development that would've gone somewhere else in the City.

And the people behind that development, are the ones putting the big money into putting this one over on the taxpayers.

These condos selling at $400/sq. ft. wouldn't have worked anywhere else. There's a huge amount of construction already happening around the route and tons more to come. I predict in 20 years from now, the streetcar will be one of the most effective MAPS projects at bringing in new development.

[OKC Guy]

It is every citizen's civic duty to vote. If you argue that low voter turnout negates an election you need proof. I took the bus to the polls. The bus ride was free.

Where did I say “negates it”?

Mandate means you have huge support. It passed but less than 8% voted for it with 4% against. That means 88% of voters didn’t vote. Its not a mandate even though it passed.

[ABryant]

We haven't even got to cold days yet.

[chuck5815]

Go on...

I honestly don't understand the argument being made here. Are you saying that the city should just do something different with the money than was discussed in the lead up to the election because you think the turn out was too low?

a) a mandate would require far more than 30k yes votes out of 328k voters

b) a mandate implies that the winner has earned some sort of political capital that could be spent on a mavericky set of policies (i.e., Obamacare, taking a stab at Roe v. Wade, Green New Deal, etc.). Here, the City has no choice in the matter. If it is at all interested in the passage of MAPS 5, the only choice is to spend the money exactly as promised.

[dankrutka]

Again, the only thing that matters is whether it passed or not. Mandate is an irrelevant concept to this election.

Note: I am not contesting whether the MAPS process, voting day, or ballot bundling are problematic. That's just a different discussion.

[jn1780]

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

A Presidential Election that is pretty meaningless in Oklahoma due to the electoral college. I have my doubts about the future success of these MAPS projects due to them being programs that require ongoing funding after completion, but not voting basically is saying yes to MAPS. The only people that showed up were the people voting for MAPS.

Its a yes or no question, the vote wasn't for a man or woman who is the lesser of two evils.

[dankrutka]

Ha ha, well maybe I should bow out of this discussion because David Holt literally just said in a video OKC released that "MAPS 4 has passed with an unprecedented mandate." I give up. I'll let y'all debate the important question here, does MAPS 4 have a mandate or not?

Video: https://twitter.com/cityofokc/status...00426189819904

[ABryant]

My dad would argue that he showed up to vote no.

[ABryant]

I canceled out his vote.

[Zuplar]

The Pott County vote didn’t seem to show up.

[TheTravellers]

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

I believe all the MAPS votes have taken place in special elections in December, so it's not just some timeline the city thought up this year, it's always been done this way (I think, I wasn't here for one of them), ever since 1993.

[emtefury]

I believe all the MAPS votes have taken place in special elections in December, so it's not just some timeline the city thought up this year, it's always been done this way (I think, I wasn't here for one of them), ever since 1993.

There is a reason it has always been done this way.

[David]

Out of curiosity I looked up the previous MAPS results, conveniently all listed on the MAPS Wikipedia page:

MAPS
Yes 33,367 54.58
No 27,762 45.42
Total votes 61,129

MAPS 4 Kids
Yes 36,866 60.58
No 23,989 39.42
Total votes 60,855

MAPS 3
Yes 40,956 54.3
No 34,465 45.7
Total votes 75,421

And from tonight's results:

MAPS 4
Yes 31,865 71.7
No 12,574 28.3
Total votes 44,439

MAPS 3 is mildly an unfair comparison given it's unusually high turnout compared to the other MAPS votes. The Yes vote on 4 is similarly in line with MAPS, MAPS 4 Kids, and only a bit lower than MAPS 3. The real difference is that the No vote collapsed. Apparently people weren't inspired to come out for a No, just a Yes.

[gopokes88]

Not sure you need a mandate when you have the law on your side

[David]

It's probably also worth noting that the Soonerpoll results were pretty much right on the money.

[catch22]

I'm so divided on this - im happy it passed because i like most of the projects. Im also 100% disappointed in the low voter turnout as well as a completely non transparent, underhanded dealing by Mayor Holt and Company on the process.

[David]

I'm so divided on this - im happy it passed because i like most of the projects. Im also 100% disappointed in the low voter turnout as well as a completely non transparent, underhanded dealing by Mayor Holt and Company on the process.

Don't be disappointed about the low turnout, it mostly happened because we simply had less people show up to vote no.

[Rover]

I have a crazy thought.... maybe, just maybe, the big majority of OKC citizens actually approve of the Maps program and feel like the previous benefits were very positive and they want more. Wild thought that maybe most people are happy with the way things have turned out.

[Laramie]

Voters approve MAPS 4 in a landslide: https://journalrecord.com/2019/12/10...n-a-landslide/

[mugofbeer]

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

The Russians influenced the date and the weather.

[mugofbeer]

Denver's recent Mayoral race attracted 20% of the vote ON ELECTION DAY. some issues on the same ballot had less than .06% of the potential vote. Exactly where is the farcical/non-farcical vote line drawn?

[TheTravellers]

The Russians influenced the date and the weather.

Ha, you win OKCTalk today!

[GoGators]

2 weeks before Christmas on a cold day

Vs

Next Nov during Presidential Election

Like I said it will pass but when less than 12% vote thats a farce. They just patched this together a few months ago. This is 8 years of tax no redo.

They likely figured the best way to get it to pass was vote now. Kudos to them

I heard they were going to do a redo since they didn’t give any tax money to the anti maps campaign. Plus it was to cold for the vote to count.