I-235 / I-44 Interchange

[Scott5114]

In the first photo, note how the ramp from 63rd southbound to I-235 merges onto the highway... There is just a matter of feet and there is almost no way to see behind you and to the left to see cars coming up fast. It is insanely unsafe.

Strangely, this is par for the course for ODOT workzones. They did the exact same setup on two ramps on I-35 in Norman a few years back. I got into two accidents there, fortunately both minor.

Someone needs to hold ODOT accountable for such dangerous designs. One of the local stations (want to say KFOR but I might be misremembering) did a story on the Norman ramps, and ODOT's response was basically "what are you gonna do? It's temporary, and we don't have much space to work with, so there." Eventually there's going to be enough speed involved in one of these situations that it turns fatal. I hope ODOT fixes whatever causes these boneheaded designs to be put up before that happens.

[OKC Guy]

Strangely, this is par for the course for ODOT workzones. They did the exact same setup on two ramps on I-35 in Norman a few years back. I got into two accidents there, fortunately both minor.

Someone needs to hold ODOT accountable for such dangerous designs. One of the local stations (want to say KFOR but I might be misremembering) did a story on the Norman ramps, and ODOT's response was basically "what are you gonna do? It's temporary, and we don't have much space to work with, so there." Eventually there's going to be enough speed involved in one of these situations that it turns fatal. I hope ODOT fixes whatever causes these boneheaded designs to be put up before that happens.

Totally agree. My guess is when they bid the job it requires the contractor to keep all roads/ramps open except for certain designated weekends or nights. And this is the contractor “keeping it open” even though dangerous. If the contract is not specific enough about something dangerous like this there is little anyone can do.

Contractor has little incentive to do any more than is spelled out. So to me I would blame the folks who controlled the contract be it city or state.

Another sore point of mine deals with incentives. I love incentive built contracts, best thing ever. However, who decides what a normal completion time is to then come up with incentives? If the payer does this wrong then a massive amount of incentive money could be paid.

For instance, if this is called a 365 day contract and its done on day 360, the contractor gets additional money for early completion. If late they pat penalty (but are given weather days built in contract verbiage). If the folks who control contract before its accepted are off then there is a huge amount of money at stake. What if they get the job done on day 300? Then they get 65 days early credit and each day they are paid x dollars. I don’t trust those (on state/city side) who decide what is normal construction time and what is early. The last phase they got it done I think 2 or months early? Have to check on it. But this early incentive money is huge and no one ever talks about it they are just happy its done. I think there is high opportunity for this to be exploited.

If I know I can do a job in 335 days but I say I need 365, then who questions that? Millions are paid in incentives each year.

[jccouger]

Totally agree. My guess is when they bid the job it requires the contractor to keep all roads/ramps open except for certain designated weekends or nights. And this is the contractor “keeping it open” even though dangerous. If the contract is not specific enough about something dangerous like this there is little anyone can do.

Contractor has little incentive to do any more than is spelled out. So to me I would blame the folks who controlled the contract be it city or state.

Another sore point of mine deals with incentives. I love incentive built contracts, best thing ever. However, who decides what a normal completion time is to then come up with incentives? If the payer does this wrong then a massive amount of incentive money could be paid.

For instance, if this is called a 365 day contract and its done on day 360, the contractor gets additional money for early completion. If late they pat penalty (but are given weather days built in contract verbiage). If the folks who control contract before its accepted are off then there is a huge amount of money at stake. What if they get the job done on day 300? Then they get 65 days early credit and each day they are paid x dollars. I don’t trust those (on state/city side) who decide what is normal construction time and what is early. The last phase they got it done I think 2 or months early? Have to check on it. But this early incentive money is huge and no one ever talks about it they are just happy its done. I think there is high opportunity for this to be exploited.

If I know I can do a job in 335 days but I say I need 365, then who questions that? Millions are paid in incentives each year.

It's likely that when bids are placed to be selected, the bidder is the one who gives the projected completion date.

Say company A says they can finish in 365 days, and company B says they can finish in 300 days. That will be a part of the selection process from ODOT. If a company thinks they can finish in 335, but bids 365 days then they are risking losing the entire job by trying to manipulate for incentives.

[OKC Guy]

It's likely that when bids are placed to be selected, the bidder is the one who gives the projected completion date.

Say company A says they can finish in 365 days, and company B says they can finish in 300 days. That will be a part of the selection process from ODOT. If a company thinks they can finish in 335, but bids 365 days then they are risking losing the entire job by trying to manipulate for incentives.

Thanks. My concern is does the city/state have enough competent people to know what a standard completion date should be? Because we offer huge incentives to finish early I could see this as a way bidders could take advantage of system. These are complex projects and the lower bidder could take advantage of incentives unless we have competent oversight. So the cheaper bidder could end up costing more due to padding ending dates and collecting incentives.

[Swalell1960]

Just curious: on the north side of 50th immediately east of the new bridge over 235 there's a kinda roundabout looking area. Is that a private thing or part of the overall rebuild project?

[Pete]

From Sunday:

[David]

So far I don't think this has been too bad on my commute, and it has been interesting watching the flyover pillars go up.

[OKC Guy]

From Sunday:

So it appears the off ramp going 235n to 50th will double as a flyover ramp to 44w. Where the ramp ends appears could extend that over 44 and curve it then it will marry the pillars being installed. Is this right?

Lots of work going on daily. One thing I have noticed is going north cars all speed through zone. Going south it slows to less than posted speed. Just a random observation but it is strange

[WhoRepsTheLurker]

So it appears the off ramp going 235n to 50th will double as a flyover ramp to 44w. Where the ramp ends appears could extend that over 44 and curve it then it will marry the pillars being installed. Is this right?

Lots of work going on daily. One thing I have noticed is going north cars all speed through zone. Going south it slows to less than posted speed. Just a random observation but it is strange

There also is usually one or two cops parked along the south bound side too that seems to slow everyone way down.

[OKC Guy]

There also is usually one or two cops parked along the south bound side too that seems to slow everyone way down.

Great point. All they do is mess up traffic and cause wrecks further back as cars bottleneck a mile back. Maybe they get a cut from tow and repair companies. They never stop anyone either just sit with lights on. To me it makes it more dangerous. It causes people to look at them vice work zone plus some panic when seeing cops and hit brakes.

It is better than I expected though. 1.5 more years to go.

[Plutonic Panda]

One thing I have noticed are these cars scanning license plates to nab those with no insurance cause slow downs and arguably wrecks. People think they are cops of perhaps speed enforcement...

[jn1780]

One thing I have noticed are these cars scanning license plates to nab those with no insurance cause slow downs and arguably wrecks. People think they are cops of perhaps speed enforcement...

Yeah, I'm not sure why they pick here of all places to setup shop.

Some of the slowdown is also caused by the amount of work that is going on. Its going to really peak people's interest when they start hanging beams over the interstate for the overpasses.

[OKC Guy]

One thing I have noticed are these cars scanning license plates to nab those with no insurance cause slow downs and arguably wrecks. People think they are cops of perhaps speed enforcement...

I read somewhere I think they nabbed 3k or 7k so far. I do not like how they go about it, even though I agree the need was there.

Take those pesky bike cops and have them drive around to solely scan license plates would be better. I hate this suv parks on side of roads especially since new law says all cars must move over a lane for all cars on side of road. Technically this suv is on side of road and all cars must move over. Thats creating a dangerous situation with drivers making sudden lane changes to comply with new law.

If a uninsured car moves over and hits me while trying to comply with law I can take OKC to court over illegal parking or creating a hazard maybe?

[Plutonic Panda]

I read somewhere I think they nabbed 3k or 7k so far. I do not like how they go about it, even though I agree the need was there.

Take those pesky bike cops and have them drive around to solely scan license plates would be better. I hate this suv parks on side of roads especially since new law says all cars must move over a lane for all cars on side of road. Technically this suv is on side of road and all cars must move over. Thats creating a dangerous situation with drivers making sudden lane changes to comply with new law.

If a uninsured car moves over and hits me while trying to comply with law I can take OKC to court over illegal parking or creating a hazard maybe?

I would suggest placing cameras as it would be safer than cars parked but I am against automated enforcement. I think these vehicles should be just driving around or sitting in legal parking spaces. I just don't see how it is acceptable for them to camp on the shoulder. There is a jeep that sits on the shoulder of I-240 near the I-35 interchange and someone almost smashed into the back of him the other day. It's good we are getting uninsured motorist but at what cost.

[Dob Hooligan]

Great point. All they do is mess up traffic and cause wrecks further back as cars bottleneck a mile back. Maybe they get a cut from tow and repair companies. They never stop anyone either just sit with lights on. To me it makes it more dangerous. It causes people to look at them vice work zone plus some panic when seeing cops and hit brakes.

It is better than I expected though. 1.5 more years to go.

I think the purpose of the Highway Patrol car stopped in the work zone with it's lights on is to slow traffic. We don't like it, but the gov't has decided they have to do something to actually achieve lower speeds being driven in work zones. Appears this is effective.

[jn1780]

So its great that there will be three lanes going northbound over I-44 on I-235, but what's the deal with it being reduced to two after crossing over I-44? I assume its because there are two lanes coming from I-44. What's interesting is that there are painted Chevrons where another lane could go.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contr...PING%20(7).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contr...PING%20(8).pdf

[Snowman]

So its great that there will be three lanes going northbound over I-44 on I-235, but what's the deal with it being reduced to two after crossing over I-44? I assume its because there are two lanes coming from I-44. What's interesting is that there are painted Chevrons where another lane could go.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contr...PING%20(7).pdf

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contr...PING%20(8).pdf

Yeah, they only have four lanes going northbound to work with. So two will be dedicate lanes from i235 northbound, one will be from i44 headed east, one will be from i44 headed west & the merge zone from Lincoln. Unless they widen the road to five lanes, something has to give. Looks like it may be planned so that can be done without updating the junction, since with a redecking could be around for 100 years.

[jn1780]

Yeah, they only have four lanes going northbound to work with. So two will be dedicate lanes from i235 northbound, one will be from i44 headed east, one will be from i44 headed west & the merge zone from Lincoln. Unless they widen the road to five lanes, something has to give. Looks like it may be planned so that can be done without updating the junction, since with a redecking could be around for 100 years.

Whats bad is that the 63rd street bridge is relatively new and appears to where the next bottle neck will occur. They could have at least did three NB lanes and two ramp merging lanes past 63rd street and then end the right hand lane.

Oh well, at least I-44 traffic and 63rd street traffic coming from I-44 won't be using the bridge anymore so that will provide some relief.

[Plutonic Panda]

There will be 3 NB and 3 SB lanes on 235/Broadway Ext. when the project is finished. That is in addition to the aux and distributor lanes for the I-44 interchange.

[jn1780]

There will be 3 NB and 3 SB lanes on 235/Broadway Ext. when the project is finished. That is in addition to the aux and distributor lanes for the I-44 interchange.

I posted the striping plans in my post above. looks like they reduce NB to two lanes before 63rd in order to have two lanes coming from I44 to I235 on-ramps. I understand that there is a project to reconfigure the lincoln ramp to i44, but I dont see how that would impact 235 lanes.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^^ you’re right yeah. Wow that’s shortsighted, IMO.

[vaflyer]

Westbound I-44 to northbound I-235 (segment 3A) now scheduled to be let in November 2021.

[Pete]

[jn1780]

Looks like their planning the next nightmare of dangerous merges. This time involving I-44 ramps.

[David]

I'm a bit curious about why the NB to WB flyover piers are all single but the EB to NB ones that are starting to go up are double, Differences in height requirements, maybe?