Full list of proposed MAPS 4 projects

[Urban Pioneer]

What she is saying is the numbers for those projects did not change since they were first presented to her in April/May.

Not that it matters at this point but I think that innovation hub got halved. The bus system and transit didn’t get the minimum but it didn’t get the maximum either. The animal shelter was negotiated down to $37 million from $41 million with a commitment that schedule wise it would be at the front. That extra money was essentially for inflation. Didn’t the soccer folks want $40 or $41? I think they got $37. So no the comments don’t necessarily add up. I’m not sure if it was intentional but she wasn’t very specific either.

[Pete]

Not that it matters at this point but I think that innovation hub got halved. The bus system and transit didn’t get the minimum but it didn’t get the maximum either. The animal shelter was negotiated down to $37 million from $41 million with a commitment that schedule wise it would be at the front. That extra money was essentially for inflation. Didn’t the soccer folks want $40 or $41? I think they got $37. So no the comments don’t necessarily add up. I’m not sure if it was intentional but she wasn’t very specific either.

Do you have first-hand knowledge of the full budget that was presented to JoBoeth and the council in April?

[soonerguru]

Do you have first-hand knowledge of the full budget that was presented to JoBoeth and the council in April?

No. I’m basing my comments on what was asked for in the public presentations.

[Urban Pioneer]

I have first hand knowledge on the things I mentioned in my comment.

[gopokes88]

It's also interesting to consider how each of these individual items might fare with voters if they were each separate items.

Every single one would fail. The only reason Maps works is because all get something, nobody gets everything.

and LOL at Hamon complaining. 70% of the package is non BLC items. That's a dramatic reversal from previous Maps. She says she understands compromise, but then complains it didn't go exactly the way she wanted.

Take the W and be quiet.

[Pete]

I have first hand knowledge on the things I mentioned in my comment.

You mean the Mayor met with the council and you were in attendance in one of those meetings?

[Urban Pioneer]

I’m pretty sure he met with people individually. Pete, if you’ve got a list of what did or didn’t change from Hamon, feel free to post it. From my observations and discussions the commentary about this her comments are pretty ambiguous. She voted for MAPS 4 so I guess it doesn’t matter. Count me out of the discussion the next few days.

[shawnw]

Watched the whole meeting online. Didn't see a single soul get up and gripe about why no aquarium, so I guess that's that.

[OKC Guy]

It will be a sad but revealing sight watching Ed Shadid constitutionally challenging an initiative that will help people who rely on bus transportation, whose forgotten neighborhoods will receive important public investment, who suffer from addiction, unaffordable housing, homelessness, and mental illness. But that is the most Ed thing ever. If he were still on council I bet this round of projects would be 90 percent Chamber driven.

This post is disingenuous and speculative. Ed is not challenging any one project he is challenging logrolling. You personally seem to have a beef with him so are speculating how the public might perceive him if he goes through. My understanding is he doesn’t like the logrolling based on our state constitution wording. To him (and others) its like blackmail by saying you have to agree to all or none.

I think its important for at least one of us to come to his defense when he is attacked like this. His interpretation has a lot of merit but yet some posters now try to paint him as someone who is against the downtrodden and thats uncalled for. This post was a personal attack on him when his beef is constitutional.

[Miracle121]

I guess this will be first MAPS defeat. Thank you Mayor Holt for doing nothing.

[Pete]

Keep in mind, the anti-logrolling (single subject) measure is part of the Oklahoma constitution as it is in 40 other states.

And it's exactly why when we vote on general obligation bonds they are separated out into distinct categories (roads, sewer, etc.) and voted on individually.

AND, the city keeps changing their wording on these MAPS ballot measures specifically to circumvent this law.


So, this is hardly just grinding an ax. If it is indeed not an issue, then the courts will say so.

[Ross MacLochness]

I guess this will be first MAPS defeat. Thank you Mayor Holt for doing nothing.

we shall see, but I seriously doubt it.

[Miracle121]

Dream small should have been the slogan put out by the mayor.

[soonerguru]

This post is disingenuous and speculative. Ed is not challenging any one project he is challenging logrolling. You personally seem to have a beef with him so are speculating how the public might perceive him if he goes through. My understanding is he doesn’t like the logrolling based on our state constitution wording. To him (and others) its like blackmail by saying you have to agree to all or none.

I think its important for at least one of us to come to his defense when he is attacked like this. His interpretation has a lot of merit but yet some posters now try to paint him as someone who is against the downtrodden and thats uncalled for. This post was a personal attack on him when his beef is constitutional.

The only part of my post that is speculative is the part about him still being on Council. And, it also proves that people who said he is anti-MAPS were correct. And for the record I like Ed and think he is generally a nice guy.

[LocoAko]

Dream small should have been the slogan put out by the mayor.

This will be, by far, the largest MAPS project in terms of $, the majority of which goes toward human-centric projects people asked for. Is your apparent axe to grind seriously just over this aquarium?

[Miracle121]

Human-centric programs should not be address through MAPS. Fair ground new arena should be a multiple function arena for a variety of sports, not just a horse barn. The aquarium would have brought in tax money, instead of giving away money on social programs that are no more than handouts.

[Plutonic Panda]

This will be, by far, the largest MAPS project in terms of $, the majority of which goes toward human-centric projects people asked for. Is your apparent axe to grind seriously just over this aquarium?

To be fair, it could be argued many of these projects are half assed. Transit should have gotten more funding. The park cap over I-235 was completely butchered. The fair grounds arena should be bigger and grander to compete with the new one in Fort Worth. The "beautification" aspect leaves the two most important freeways through the city(I-35 and I-40) untouched.

I'm on the fence with this MAPS. I support it though I wish the aquarium was included, I think it will make the city better overall. That said if it fails I don't think it will be a big loss. It could even better long term forcing the city to either a) find new funding for these things which should have more proper funding than a 'temporary' sales tax and/or b) come back with a bigger and better MAPS 4.

If the former happens they could either increase the scope or do what OKCGuy suggests and break it down into 2-4 year cycles. Though it seems things that are really transformative like that just don't happen in OKC much.

[Hollywood]

instead of giving away money on social programs that are no more than handouts.

Bingo. How often does that actually work?

[Laramie]

This will be, by far, the largest MAPS project in terms of $, the majority of which goes toward human-centric projects people asked for. Is your apparent axe to grind seriously just over this aquarium?

They got the majority of what they wanted to go before the voters. Now comes to process (if approved) of collections and what gets built first. Interesting to see how this plays out.

The Aquarium is doable with using just a portion of the 1/8 cent sales tax revenue (Zoo receives $12-14 million annually; use $4 million a year) the Zoo receives which could be stretched out over a 20 - 30 year period and/or added to MAPS 5 as the first items on the agenda to pay the Aquarium off so that it become debt free.

And for the record, I'm voting yes...

[Laramie]

There's not a whole lot of difference with the $978 million MAPS 4 package if you were to add $80 million for a Zoo Aquarium (1.6 billion) and extend it to 9 years instead of 8.

If the Zoo wanted a larger Aquarium they could stockpile some of the funds they receive from the permanent sales tax. This doesn't have to be a binary choice.

[Ross MacLochness]

Bingo. How often does that actually work?

Have you read the report?

The funding goes to building facilities contingent on finding an operator and funding from other sources to run said facilities.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City Council approves MAPS 4 package, special election to be Dec. 10

https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/3154/18

Have you read the report?

The funding goes to building facilities contingent on finding an operator and funding from other sources to run said facilities.

Good reminder, some of the projects are tied to benchmarks they will need to fulfill.

[Hollywood]

Have you read the report?

The funding goes to building facilities contingent on finding an operator and funding from other sources to run said facilities.

I meant that as a reference to the efforts and financial efforts on the west coast where it has done nothing and the problem as gotten worse. I believe it is Seattle where the city has spent $100,000 per homeless resident and it has accomplished nothing.

[David]

Have you read the report?

The funding goes to building facilities contingent on finding an operator and funding from other sources to run said facilities.

Why read the details when you case baselessly cast aspersions instead?

[soonerguru]

This will pass easily